We almost never talk about when Peter Gotti because boss because it laughable but

[Uforeality]

John wasn't ready to give up the reigns and Peter was all that he had left. I've never read anything that remotely suggested Peter was respected and or even liked.

[Guest]

Back on topic, I always suspected the whole Peter Gotti being a retarded patsy thing was overblown . Sure, he wasn't known as a Gangster's Gangster, and obviously was put into position by way of nepotism. But I doubt he was a total pussy or as dumb as people make him out to be. The Gottis in general, despite being big fans of Niccolo's "The Prince", probably all had the reading comprehension of a 12 year old and were very rough around the edges, but still.

The guy was a boss for christs sakes. The boss. He made rulings/decisions as a boss and if anyone from another family had something going on with the Gambinos that escalated to a higher level, they had to meet with Peter or whoever Peter decided to send. Maybe some guys in his own family kept their distance from him, but if he ordered something, people had to do it. Guys talked behind his back and joked about him? Probably - but they did the same thing for Castellano, Chin, etc.

I agree and actually think that thing was partly because of his looks. Lets face it, at least in some of the pictures that were used of him in the media he looks a bit like a retard

[newera_212]

Back on topic, I always suspected the whole Peter Gotti being a retarded patsy thing was overblown . Sure, he wasn't known as a Gangster's Gangster, and obviously was put into position by way of nepotism. But I doubt he was a total pussy or as dumb as people make him out to be. The Gottis in general, despite being big fans of Niccolo's "The Prince", probably all had the reading comprehension of a 12 year old and were very rough around the edges, but still.

The guy was a boss for christs sakes. The boss. He made rulings/decisions as a boss and if anyone from another family had something going on with the Gambinos that escalated to a higher level, they had to meet with Peter or whoever Peter decided to send. Maybe some guys in his own family kept their distance from him, but if he ordered something, people had to do it. Guys talked behind his back and joked about him? Probably - but they did the same thing for Castellano, Chin, etc.

I agree and actually think that thing was partly because of his looks. Lets face it, at least in some of the pictures that were used of him in the media he looks a bit like a retard

That's true - there are some pictures of him where he looks hideous, frankly. There's no other way to describe it. There aren't many, but even some of the photos before his final arrest when he was a little bit younger in the 80s-90s, those aren't much better. I hate to use the term, but "mongoloid" is what comes to mind

[Teflon Dom]

John wasn't ready to give up the reigns and Peter was all that he had left. I've never read anything that remotely suggested Peter was respected and or even liked.

Gotti talked about his brother so bad on the tapes the idea of him being respected as boss is laughable.


He was only allowed to pick up money and see his own brother only when there was an emergency with their mon or dad lol

[Wiseguy]

Seems law enforcement never had a high opinion of Peter either.

[Nasabeak]

Back on topic, I always suspected the whole Peter Gotti being a retarded patsy thing was overblown . Sure, he wasn't known as a Gangster's Gangster, and obviously was put into position by way of nepotism. But I doubt he was a total pussy or as dumb as people make him out to be. The Gottis in general, despite being big fans of Niccolo's "The Prince", probably all had the reading comprehension of a 12 year old and were very rough around the edges, but still.

The guy was a boss for christs sakes. The boss. He made rulings/decisions as a boss and if anyone from another family had something going on with the Gambinos that escalated to a higher level, they had to meet with Peter or whoever Peter decided to send. Maybe some guys in his own family kept their distance from him, but if he ordered something, people had to do it. Guys talked behind his back and joked about him? Probably - but they did the same thing for Castellano, Chin, etc.

I am no Gotti fan - but John Gotti actually had a high IQ and you could tell he was intelligent from his letters from prison, if you read them one day. He was no dummy; simply just not educated. But likely of very high raw IQ. Don’t know as much about Peter, but people who knew Peter said he wasn’t that bright iirc Mikey Scars said as much - and he adored John

[Nasabeak]

John wasn't ready to give up the reigns and Peter was all that he had left. I've never read anything that remotely suggested Peter was respected and or even liked.

Gotti talked about his brother so bad on the tapes the idea of him being respected as boss is laughable.


He was only allowed to pick up money and see his own brother only when there was an emergency with their mon or dad lol

Can you point me to the tapes where Johnny talked about Pete?

[Wiseguy]

Back on topic, I always suspected the whole Peter Gotti being a retarded patsy thing was overblown . Sure, he wasn't known as a Gangster's Gangster, and obviously was put into position by way of nepotism. But I doubt he was a total pussy or as dumb as people make him out to be. The Gottis in general, despite being big fans of Niccolo's "The Prince", probably all had the reading comprehension of a 12 year old and were very rough around the edges, but still.

The guy was a boss for christs sakes. The boss. He made rulings/decisions as a boss and if anyone from another family had something going on with the Gambinos that escalated to a higher level, they had to meet with Peter or whoever Peter decided to send. Maybe some guys in his own family kept their distance from him, but if he ordered something, people had to do it. Guys talked behind his back and joked about him? Probably - but they did the same thing for Castellano, Chin, etc.

I am no Gotti fan - but John Gotti actually had a high IQ and you could tell he was intelligent from his letters from prison, if you read them one day. He was no dummy; simply just not educated. But likely of very high raw IQ. Don’t know as much about Peter, but people who knew Peter said he wasn’t that bright iirc Mikey Scars said as much - and he adored John

Mendacity. The word for today is mendacity. It's the art of being mendacious.

[Nasabeak]

Interesting that he never got caught on tape. Obviously Pete became boss through nepotism…but how many other guys did? I feel like it’s a bit overblown. Couldn’t you the say the same thing for Castellano? He was obviously much more financially successful, but would he have definitely become boss without Carlo?

Not to mention that when comparing Pete Gotti and Paul Castellano…only one of those two got caught on tape by the government (obviously that’s a very narrow comparison between the two of them)

Castellano became Boss because the Caprains elected him. Their first choice was Joe N. Gallo, Who wanted the job badly until he suffered a massive heart attack in February 1974. After that, he threw his support behind Paul. There were no other serious contenders for Boss.

Also note that the election of Paul happened after Carlo died. They could’ve elected anyone, if they’d really wanted to. He was chosen by a pool of his peers.

Also, while Paul was stupid for talking in one location, he also ruled in a different era from Pete Gotti. It was really inconceivable to Paul that the Feds would bug a man’s home like that. His social club, his businesses were one thing but he felt a certain I guess - or expected a certain - mutual class from the Feds that wasn’t there.

Note that before 1984, before the bug of his home, he had no prior convictions since 1960; and only one arrest in 1975 for a case that was a loser designed just to harm his credibility. He was considered by his fellow Mobsters in the 60s and 70s to be “extremely cautious.”

Consider similar higher level Gambino guys like Neil, Joe N. Gallo, had long long long rap sheets.

Paul had just three arrests in his life prior to 1984: 1934, 1960, and 1975. The Feds failed to get him on tape at all before they bugged his home in 1983. And they only were able to bug his home thanks to Angelo Ruggerio’s big mouth.
Peter Gotti ruled in an age where it had been shown that the Feds would bug anywhere they possibly could

[Nasabeak]

Back on topic, I always suspected the whole Peter Gotti being a retarded patsy thing was overblown . Sure, he wasn't known as a Gangster's Gangster, and obviously was put into position by way of nepotism. But I doubt he was a total pussy or as dumb as people make him out to be. The Gottis in general, despite being big fans of Niccolo's "The Prince", probably all had the reading comprehension of a 12 year old and were very rough around the edges, but still.

The guy was a boss for christs sakes. The boss. He made rulings/decisions as a boss and if anyone from another family had something going on with the Gambinos that escalated to a higher level, they had to meet with Peter or whoever Peter decided to send. Maybe some guys in his own family kept their distance from him, but if he ordered something, people had to do it. Guys talked behind his back and joked about him? Probably - but they did the same thing for Castellano, Chin, etc.

I am no Gotti fan - but John Gotti actually had a high IQ and you could tell he was intelligent from his letters from prison, if you read them one day. He was no dummy; simply just not educated. But likely of very high raw IQ. Don’t know as much about Peter, but people who knew Peter said he wasn’t that bright iirc Mikey Scars said as much - and he adored John

Mendacity. The word for today is mendacity. It's the art of being mendacious.

Meaning what in this context?

[Wiseguy]

Meaning what in this context?

It's a quote Gotti gave to a reporter in passing.

[Ivan]

I am no Gotti fan - but John Gotti actually had a high IQ and you could tell he was intelligent from his letters from prison, if you read them one day. He was no dummy; simply just not educated. But likely of very high raw IQ. Don’t know as much about Peter, but people who knew Peter said he wasn’t that bright iirc Mikey Scars said as much - and he adored John

I think his "raw" verbal intelligence was quite high. You can tell this from some of the weird, funny shit he would say. Like when he went off on his son's friends' nicknames and started making up hilarious fake ones -- that isn't the kind of joke a stupid guy cracks. To me he sounded like a guy with high innate verbal intelligence but no formal education on top of it (as you noted).

[Nasabeak]

I am no Gotti fan - but John Gotti actually had a high IQ and you could tell he was intelligent from his letters from prison, if you read them one day. He was no dummy; simply just not educated. But likely of very high raw IQ. Don’t know as much about Peter, but people who knew Peter said he wasn’t that bright iirc Mikey Scars said as much - and he adored John

I think his "raw" verbal intelligence was quite high. You can tell this from some of the weird, funny shit he would say. Like when he went off on his son's friends' nicknames and started making up hilarious fake ones -- that isn't the kind of joke a stupid guy cracks. To me he sounded like a guy with high innate verbal intelligence but no formal education on top of it (as you noted).

Yeah, quite frankly also, many have noted John had a particularly great sense of “sussing out” if you will Mafia politics - the Mafia as we know is as political as a government in many ways - in addition to his noted extremely high charisma (people who knew him stated he was considered extremely charismatic and persuasive even back in the early 60s, before he was anybody)

This innate sense of persuasion and of “reading the room” among a bunch of other just as ambitious guys, and a savvy way of playing politics within said group is an indicator - to me - of quick witted analytical intelligence, besides the verbal intelligence you note. If he was educated, I could easily see Gotti having been a CEO - he had the charisma, social and emotional intelligence, charisma, quick wit and ego to be in a leading position in any organization.

But then, the same is true of many Bosses. Castellano, Costello, Genovese, Accardo could easily have been totally legitimate, high powered executives. These were all men of probably genius or near genius level IQ were it to be tested - just not educated.

Read Gotti’s letter from prison to a soldier stationed in Bosnia that had written to him - for a man of only a high school education, he had quite a way with words.

[NYNighthawk]

Peter benched or put on the shelf Mikey Scars DiLeonardo and we all know how that decision turned out!!!!!

[MoLarryCurly]

Peter gottis waterfront trial he was offered 4 years while everyone on the case had offers of 2-6 years. Instead of taking the deals and everyone getting light sentences, he forced them all to go to trial. This resulted in him getting 9 years and Sunny getting close to 15. Cassarino got 12 years and ultimately co operated after that. His brother Richie and Nephew also got a couple years each. He knew he had a second case coming for the plot on Sammy the whole time. He was dumb and selfish. He thought about himself, instead of thinking of the greater good the men getting back to the streets. He actually used tapes of his brothers calling him a moron to try and defend how could he be the boss. But as others wrote on here he was the Boss and everyone listened.