Gambino 1870-2014
Moderator: Capos
Re: Gambino 1870-2014
Amazing. They all have "the look", no question about that.
Re: Gambino 1870-2014
Stella Frauto was apparently Clemente's sister. Counterfeiting was typically a family affair. Gaetano Russo appears to be a common link in these counterfeiting cases. He and his wife Rosa were charged with arson in New Orleans in 1872. In the mid-1880s he killed a man in Chicago, and then ran to St. Louis and San Francisco. Then he ran a counterfeiting gang in Chelsea, outside Boston. In 1888 he was arrested in New York with Candelario Bettini and others. In 1895 he was connected to Luigi Palermo in New York, who was associated with the Clemente-Frauto case. Russo returns to New Orleans and secretly informs in 1902. He's busted again in 1913 and is in federal prison until 1918. His correspondence included Charles Matranga, alleged early New Orleans Mafia boss, and Joseph Di Carlo, the head of the Berseglieri (sp), a target shooting club that counted many Mafiosi as its members. So there were a lot of connections.
Re: Gambino 1870-2014
Probably needed to start counterfeiting just to pay for the amount of train fare they needed.
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PolackTony
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Re: Gambino 1870-2014
Maybe you already have this info. Based on the info from the document that CC posted, I was able to identify Nicola Taranto’s 1895 naturalization index document, which had his birthdate as 1849/08/22 and stated that he arrived in the US in 1888. His wife was Concetta Taranto (I don’t have a maiden name for her); I know that her arrest record stated that she was Theresa Taranto but several other documents have her as Concetta. Per a 1905 passport application, she stated that she was born in Messina. Haven’t been able to locate a document stating Nicola’s place of birth.
"Hey, hey, hey — this is America, baby! Survival of the fittest.”
Re: Gambino 1870-2014
Bettini's wife Salvadora was previously married to another counterfeiter named John Brandino. Bettini claimed a "Carlo Maccheran" asked him to hold the box of counterfeit bills for him but the man was a stranger to him. Other figures involved in the operation mentioned in the article are "Carine Bifalco" and "Ventrelo Connello".
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Excerpt mentioning Messina from an old Italian Senate report (translated) analyzing the genesis of the mafia in Sicily:
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From a more recent Italian report on organized crime in Messina:
- Some of these groups are "mafia-like" and have their own characteristics but are connected to Cosa Nostra Families in other parts of the island and have structure/operation like Palermo. Appears from the map not all these groups are officially Cosa Nostra. We know from Costa there are 'Ndrandgheta groups there.
- Looks like two groups are part of the Santapaola Cosa Nostra Family in Catania, and Mistretta is definitely Cosa Nostra as they report to a Palermo Mandamento. Barcellona is unclear as it is called a Family but isn't ID'd as being with a Mandamento like Mistretta.
Messina citta:
- Looks like the Santapaola Family in Catania has influence there but the other groups in Messina citta aren't Cosa Nostra.
1958 map created by the FBI using intelligence supplied by Italian authorities:
- Don't know what Italy's criteria was for choosing "sites pertinent to origin and development of the Sicilian mafia" -- the FBI was just using their info.
- With the above in mind, the choices are interesting. Most are in Agrigento and lower Palermo province. Not every choice is obvious. Note that Messina doesn't have a marker yet Reggio Calabria does? Strange given this is about the Sicilian mafia.
- Palermo citta and Castellammare are nothing to shake a stick at but this is crazy if it's based on evidence of "origin and development":
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Excerpt mentioning Messina from an old Italian Senate report (translated) analyzing the genesis of the mafia in Sicily:
- The same report described how the mafia attempted to make stronger ties to Messina during their political powergrab after WWII but their Messinese contacts were leftists and they had a political falling out (typical of mafia alliances with the left).The phenomenon had more pronounced manifestations in Palermo and western Sicily, because in Messina the weakness of the central governments was put to the advantage of municipal independence, freedom of trade, of the authority and prestige of local bodies. More specifically, Messina and eastern Sicily tried to acquire an autonomy of government, for the protection of local trade, and when they strove to valorise local administrative bodies, in the attempt, not unlike that made by many cities in northern and central Italy, to oppose a strong communal power to a practically non-existent state power.
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From a more recent Italian report on organized crime in Messina:
Messina province:The criminal landscape is characterized by the existence of distinct areas of influence, within which Mafia-type structures operate, each with its own characteristics, which are affected by the influence of mafia organizations of the neighboring rulers. In particular, I know they distinguish that: starting from the outskirts of the city of Messina, it extends along the northern coast up to the Nebrodi, where the influence of the families of Barcellona Pozzo di Gotto, Mazzarra Sant'Andrea, Milazzo and Terme Vigliatore is recorded. These are militarily organized criminal formations, connected with the families of Cosa Nostra of Palermo, San Mauro Castelverde, Catania and Caltanissetta, which have taken on a structure and operating systems that are entirely homologous to the Palermo clans.
- Some of these groups are "mafia-like" and have their own characteristics but are connected to Cosa Nostra Families in other parts of the island and have structure/operation like Palermo. Appears from the map not all these groups are officially Cosa Nostra. We know from Costa there are 'Ndrandgheta groups there.
- Looks like two groups are part of the Santapaola Cosa Nostra Family in Catania, and Mistretta is definitely Cosa Nostra as they report to a Palermo Mandamento. Barcellona is unclear as it is called a Family but isn't ID'd as being with a Mandamento like Mistretta.
Messina citta:
- Looks like the Santapaola Family in Catania has influence there but the other groups in Messina citta aren't Cosa Nostra.
1958 map created by the FBI using intelligence supplied by Italian authorities:
- Don't know what Italy's criteria was for choosing "sites pertinent to origin and development of the Sicilian mafia" -- the FBI was just using their info.
- With the above in mind, the choices are interesting. Most are in Agrigento and lower Palermo province. Not every choice is obvious. Note that Messina doesn't have a marker yet Reggio Calabria does? Strange given this is about the Sicilian mafia.
- Palermo citta and Castellammare are nothing to shake a stick at but this is crazy if it's based on evidence of "origin and development":
Re: Gambino 1870-2014
I think you might be reading too much into it. Let's apply Occam's Razor. In the United States people from Messina were seen as fellow Sicilians by the Palermitani. That's the only requirement for admission to "the club." Once in, they could move up the criminal ladder just like Mafiosi from Palermo, Trapani or Agrigento.
Re: Gambino 1870-2014
It would be an exceptional twist either way and I find it interesting based on Messina's limited role in known US/Sicilian history. That's relevant to my own understanding and if that's not an area you're interesting in exploring no worries on my end. You make good points in your own right.
Re: Gambino 1870-2014
Just so we're clear, I asked about your article because the subheading is "Sicilian hometown allegiance and kinship ties may have played larger roles in early Mafia development than previously thought" and you make strong arguments in favor of this. Not that it was an absolute rule, but it was a significant trend/pattern. Celeste Morello came to a similar conclusion in her Philadelphia research many years earlier, identifying hometown-based Families in Philly w/ help from Riccobene.
I was curious how Taranto being a Messinese/Tunisian immigrant who came to the United States in 1888 might impact statements from your article like this:
"By the 1890s Taranto, who emigrated from Italy in 1888 at age forty, headed what was the area's sole Mafia organization. It also makes sense that he would have been the "supreme head" or capo dei capi due to the damage caused to the New Orleans Family through the 1891 mass lynching and to New York's status as America's immigration capital."
This is not a call out, I was genuinely curious how a recent immigrant who may not have Western Sicilian hometown/kinship ties might impact your view given that angle was a core premise of your article. Not that you would change anything you said, but simply look at it differently. You said it has no impact at all which I find surprising but I respect your take.
I was curious how Taranto being a Messinese/Tunisian immigrant who came to the United States in 1888 might impact statements from your article like this:
"By the 1890s Taranto, who emigrated from Italy in 1888 at age forty, headed what was the area's sole Mafia organization. It also makes sense that he would have been the "supreme head" or capo dei capi due to the damage caused to the New Orleans Family through the 1891 mass lynching and to New York's status as America's immigration capital."
This is not a call out, I was genuinely curious how a recent immigrant who may not have Western Sicilian hometown/kinship ties might impact your view given that angle was a core premise of your article. Not that you would change anything you said, but simply look at it differently. You said it has no impact at all which I find surprising but I respect your take.
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Angelo Santino
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Re: Gambino 1870-2014
I think one of the greater problems is that our knowledge is so very limited. All the points you made about how the SS got it wrong is a possibility. But we dont have enough more to go on, we cant argue against Hazen's sources that we haven't seen.
The Gambinos had a sizable Messinese faction in the 60s so theres that.
What Rick said is true: if you're good enough to be a member then you're good enough to be boss. NY at this time had one group which was probably pretty heyergenous so while there were more Palermitans than anything else there were other factions as well. If Morello and other Corleonese were members in Sicily they likely transferred to this NY Family before the Corleonese split off in an agreed upon decision with the original one. Same for the Bonannos.
I like that you're questioning this, your interest in the Messinese and how it plays into it and please continue. You've made good points all around.
The Gambinos had a sizable Messinese faction in the 60s so theres that.
What Rick said is true: if you're good enough to be a member then you're good enough to be boss. NY at this time had one group which was probably pretty heyergenous so while there were more Palermitans than anything else there were other factions as well. If Morello and other Corleonese were members in Sicily they likely transferred to this NY Family before the Corleonese split off in an agreed upon decision with the original one. Same for the Bonannos.
I like that you're questioning this, your interest in the Messinese and how it plays into it and please continue. You've made good points all around.
Re: Gambino 1870-2014
When you published your article you (CC) asked me to go through it and challenge anything in there. At the time I couldn't find anything worth questioning. I think this however is worth questioning (opposed to "challenging") and it's equally worth exploring the role/history of Messina beyond "everyone's a member" given the premise of your article is based on hometown/kinship ties and Taranto is described as a possible godfather of the Five Families.
You said yourself you would have bet on him being Palermitano, so this changes your assumption if nothing else. And what made you assume it? He was linked to a Family known for overwhelming clan-based Palermitani leadership. Inducting Messinesi in the 1910s or 1920s is different from one being boss and capo dei capi in 1895.
Personally, "Mysterious Messinese man comes to the US in 1888 and by the 1890s heads an NYC Family that produces heavily clannish Corleone, Palermo/Agrigento, and Trapani based Families while overseeing an entire country of clannish Western Sicilian mafiosi" doesn't sound like Occam's Razor to me. Sounds like something that deserves to be "read into" a little bit even if it's for the sake of discussion in the absence of original sources.
Not that we'll come to any conclusions or that I expect concensus, but it's an interesting twist and I'm going to question it in a thread about 1800s Gambino history. Just where my interest takes me.
You said yourself you would have bet on him being Palermitano, so this changes your assumption if nothing else. And what made you assume it? He was linked to a Family known for overwhelming clan-based Palermitani leadership. Inducting Messinesi in the 1910s or 1920s is different from one being boss and capo dei capi in 1895.
Personally, "Mysterious Messinese man comes to the US in 1888 and by the 1890s heads an NYC Family that produces heavily clannish Corleone, Palermo/Agrigento, and Trapani based Families while overseeing an entire country of clannish Western Sicilian mafiosi" doesn't sound like Occam's Razor to me. Sounds like something that deserves to be "read into" a little bit even if it's for the sake of discussion in the absence of original sources.
Not that we'll come to any conclusions or that I expect concensus, but it's an interesting twist and I'm going to question it in a thread about 1800s Gambino history. Just where my interest takes me.
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Angelo Santino
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Re: Gambino 1870-2014
Yeah, and I think everything should always be challenged and questioned when we find more information.
Yeah, but now that he's not I say ok, glad I didnt assume and write that he was Palermitan. The mafia throws curveballs and we could apply the same argument to Morello. The Palermitans dominated, had businessmen and were more savor flair, yet the BOB in the 1900s was a crippled illiterate Corleonese who was left handed, which in those days meant you were sinister and not to be trusted. One could argue that if Palermo and NY were soooo connected why wasnt a Palermitan the BOB? And unlike the Palermitans and Agrigentini who were shady businessmen who dabbled in crime, Morello was a gangster.
With Taranto I'm open to discussing it, I enjoy it. But again, we're quoting the SS and if you want to say that they didnt understand or misinterpreted things I'd say that's a strong possibility. Flynn had the entire Mafia as one group in the 1910s when if he inspected the letters closer he'd have learned that's not the case.
Unfortunately we have very little resources on that era, and it doesnt feel right to say Taranto wasnt boss because hes Messinese. I'd be inclined to be surprised at his becoming a fortune teller after he served his sentence.
Yeah, but now that he's not I say ok, glad I didnt assume and write that he was Palermitan. The mafia throws curveballs and we could apply the same argument to Morello. The Palermitans dominated, had businessmen and were more savor flair, yet the BOB in the 1900s was a crippled illiterate Corleonese who was left handed, which in those days meant you were sinister and not to be trusted. One could argue that if Palermo and NY were soooo connected why wasnt a Palermitan the BOB? And unlike the Palermitans and Agrigentini who were shady businessmen who dabbled in crime, Morello was a gangster.
With Taranto I'm open to discussing it, I enjoy it. But again, we're quoting the SS and if you want to say that they didnt understand or misinterpreted things I'd say that's a strong possibility. Flynn had the entire Mafia as one group in the 1910s when if he inspected the letters closer he'd have learned that's not the case.
Unfortunately we have very little resources on that era, and it doesnt feel right to say Taranto wasnt boss because hes Messinese. I'd be inclined to be surprised at his becoming a fortune teller after he served his sentence.
Re: Gambino 1870-2014
See, I don't think the capo dei capi politics had to run through Palermo or that Morello's that much of a curveball. It's not exceptional for a Western Sicilian from a well-defined clan/hometown to become BOB, and we can see it goes Corleone>Palermo>Menfi/Marsala>Salemi>Castellammare, so no evidence it had to be Palermitani alone. All of those places were significant in the Sicilian mafia, part of well-defined international networks, and produced clans and dominant political factions. Most if not all of them have clearly defined Sicilian mafia activity going back into the 1800s and a significant presence in what we know of the early US.
It's not that I believe it's impossible for a Messinese to have held that position, it's that it would be truly exceptional based on what we know about the development of the Sicilian+US mafia and its politics. The mafia does have exceptions (one reason I'm so interested in it), so I'm not dismissing it outright, only stating that it is surprising and exceptional if true. Would you have written the Taranto section of your article differently if you knew he was Messinese? I don't know, but you probably would have considered that info beyond just stating his hometown.
As you guys outlined, the politics of the Gambino Family did run through Palermo even though the capo dei capi position didn't. 1901-1951 and again 1957-1985 the boss was Palermitano. That's a long time. If you whispered in John Gambino's ear on his deathbed "The first (known) boss of the Gambino Family was from Messina", do you think he'd say "No big deal, a member is a member"? He'd probably say, "Whoa, how'd that happen? Are you sure?" That's basically what I'm doing (and I'm not speaking for John Gambino, maybe he'd think nothing of it).
My angle isn't that Taranto was straight up not the boss, it's that it should have a serious impact on our assumption as to:
- Whether or not he truly was the Gambino boss / capo dei capi.
And/or:
- The intertwined politics and development of the American, NYC, and Sicilian mafia.
And I can tell you we're all in 100% agreement with this fact: we don't truly know. I'm just arguing a case here, you guys are the best.
It's not that I believe it's impossible for a Messinese to have held that position, it's that it would be truly exceptional based on what we know about the development of the Sicilian+US mafia and its politics. The mafia does have exceptions (one reason I'm so interested in it), so I'm not dismissing it outright, only stating that it is surprising and exceptional if true. Would you have written the Taranto section of your article differently if you knew he was Messinese? I don't know, but you probably would have considered that info beyond just stating his hometown.
As you guys outlined, the politics of the Gambino Family did run through Palermo even though the capo dei capi position didn't. 1901-1951 and again 1957-1985 the boss was Palermitano. That's a long time. If you whispered in John Gambino's ear on his deathbed "The first (known) boss of the Gambino Family was from Messina", do you think he'd say "No big deal, a member is a member"? He'd probably say, "Whoa, how'd that happen? Are you sure?" That's basically what I'm doing (and I'm not speaking for John Gambino, maybe he'd think nothing of it).
My angle isn't that Taranto was straight up not the boss, it's that it should have a serious impact on our assumption as to:
- Whether or not he truly was the Gambino boss / capo dei capi.
And/or:
- The intertwined politics and development of the American, NYC, and Sicilian mafia.
And I can tell you we're all in 100% agreement with this fact: we don't truly know. I'm just arguing a case here, you guys are the best.
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Angelo Santino
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Re: Gambino 1870-2014
Exceptional? I'm not there yet. NY follows the same trajectory as most US cities in that succeeding bosses tended to come from different areas until a faction kinda took over and stayed dominant or they didn't. I mean, these groups represent the makeup of the demographics and there was a Messinese element to it. And let's fast forward in time, we've seen Anastasia and Gotti assume the position. No one told them they couldn't be because of their lineage. I know 1950-1980 isn't 1850-1880 but there's alot we don't know. Maybe the SS got it wrong, maybe Taranto was a rising star, the info is kinda lost to history and without more concrete evidence to go over we'll never have an answer. Would I have written it differently? No. We could make note that this group was primarily Palermitan so it was extraordinary for someone from Messina to have become boss of it, but that takes us back to NYC before there were three groups, before that point they were all under one banner and to quote Calderone: "Anyone good enough to become a member is good enough to become boss." Just because a Messinese became boss doesn't diminish the Palermitans or their operations in the citrus and produce trade so I don't see it being an issue.
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Angelo Santino
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Re: Gambino 1870-2014
1960's Gambino Messinese:
joseph Casablanca 9/19/1911 NYC 217 E 107th St, New York, NY 10029 East Harlem Manhattan Vincent Limina
vincent Casablanca 9/29/1913 NYC 180 E 104th St, New York, NY 10029 East Harlem Manhattan John Limina
Cosmo FRANCO 10/19/1907 NYC 253 W 16th St, New York, NY 10011 Chelsea Manhattan Carmelo Franco Santo Stefano di Camastra, Messina, Sicilia
Anthony Granza 3/25/1915 Oneida, Madison, New York, USA 2027 2nd Ave, New York, NY 10029 East Harlem Manhattan Giuseppe (Joseph) Granza San Fratello, Messina, Sicilia
Anthony Zangoglia 4/16/1924 300 E 107th St, New York, NY 10029 East Harlem Manhattan "Anthony Zangagla " San Fratello, Messina
Carmelo BIONDO Charles 1/22/1914 NYC 2418 Beaumont Ave, Bronx, NY 10458 Belmont Bronx Sebastano Barcellona Pozza di Golfo
John Joseph Biondo 4/10/1912 NYC 109-99 64th Rd, Forest Hills, NY 11375 Forrest Hills Long Island Sebastano Barcellona Pozza di Golfo
John Casablanca 7/30/1909 NYC 244 E 106th St, New York, NY 10029 East Harlem Manhattan Vincent Limina
Ignazio DiBella 2/12/1922 NYC 171 Union St, Brooklyn, NY 11231 Cobble Hill Brooklyn Antonio Francesco Bella Messina
Paul DiBella Robbie 12/2/1917 NYC 171 Union St, Brooklyn, NY 11231 Cobble Hill Brooklyn Antonio DiBella Messina
Salvatore Guarnieri 10/29/1915 NYC 2013 Stillwell Ave, Brooklyn, NY 11223 Gravesend Brooklyn Gaetano
Edward Bonica 4/22/1924 NYC 30 Warren St, Brooklyn, NY 11201 Columbia St Waterfont Brooklyn Giuseppe Bonica Lipari, Messina
joseph Casablanca 9/19/1911 NYC 217 E 107th St, New York, NY 10029 East Harlem Manhattan Vincent Limina
vincent Casablanca 9/29/1913 NYC 180 E 104th St, New York, NY 10029 East Harlem Manhattan John Limina
Cosmo FRANCO 10/19/1907 NYC 253 W 16th St, New York, NY 10011 Chelsea Manhattan Carmelo Franco Santo Stefano di Camastra, Messina, Sicilia
Anthony Granza 3/25/1915 Oneida, Madison, New York, USA 2027 2nd Ave, New York, NY 10029 East Harlem Manhattan Giuseppe (Joseph) Granza San Fratello, Messina, Sicilia
Anthony Zangoglia 4/16/1924 300 E 107th St, New York, NY 10029 East Harlem Manhattan "Anthony Zangagla " San Fratello, Messina
Carmelo BIONDO Charles 1/22/1914 NYC 2418 Beaumont Ave, Bronx, NY 10458 Belmont Bronx Sebastano Barcellona Pozza di Golfo
John Joseph Biondo 4/10/1912 NYC 109-99 64th Rd, Forest Hills, NY 11375 Forrest Hills Long Island Sebastano Barcellona Pozza di Golfo
John Casablanca 7/30/1909 NYC 244 E 106th St, New York, NY 10029 East Harlem Manhattan Vincent Limina
Ignazio DiBella 2/12/1922 NYC 171 Union St, Brooklyn, NY 11231 Cobble Hill Brooklyn Antonio Francesco Bella Messina
Paul DiBella Robbie 12/2/1917 NYC 171 Union St, Brooklyn, NY 11231 Cobble Hill Brooklyn Antonio DiBella Messina
Salvatore Guarnieri 10/29/1915 NYC 2013 Stillwell Ave, Brooklyn, NY 11223 Gravesend Brooklyn Gaetano
Edward Bonica 4/22/1924 NYC 30 Warren St, Brooklyn, NY 11201 Columbia St Waterfont Brooklyn Giuseppe Bonica Lipari, Messina
Re: Gambino 1870-2014
B, I also appreciate your input. We tend to agree on most things, but every now and then we don't. Like I wrote earlier, I can see your point that it's very possible that the SS misinterpreted connections and may have gotten this wrong. But I don't see being Messianese as a hindrance or even a big deal considering the historic context. We know very little about this era, but I think the general principle that all Sicilians are equal holds true. Maybe Taranto wouldn't have been able to climb the ladder if he stayed in Messina - but maybe he joined in Tunis and developed a reputation as a leader there. There are many possibilities, but unfortunately we will probably never have all the answers we're looking for.