Arrests in NY, induction ceremony taped

[SonnyBlackstein]

It would be an incredible coincidence if the Rizzutos were breaking away and Sciascia was murdered for unrelated reasons.

+1

If Massino was concerned with the loyalty of the Montreal decina in 1981, by 99 one would assume the situation had deteriorated.

[UTC]

Calling the remnants the "Todaro Family" also makes it easier to prove they are part of an enterprise, plus it sounds better in press releases and the papers.

Yeah we have seen the same thing when remnants in Rochester, Kansas City, Rockford, Scranton and Cleveland have been indicted years after the family was considered extinct by LE. The feds themselves don't list Buffalo as one of the remaining families.


Pogo

Yeah, I knew as soon as we read "the Todaro family" in some of the articles, some would immediately start jumping to conclusions. Nevermind the feds said just this past March that there really is no family left. Individuals were still there but no leader and no viable organization. Seeing a couple of guys, who are the sons and grandsons of past mob guys (I'm not sure if they themselves are made or just associates) caught up in this bust is reminiscent of what we've seen in some other cities, as Pogo pointed out.

For example, in recent years we have seen some associates or sons of people connected to people who were involved with the Pittsburgh family caught up in video gambling busts. Or, for instance, back in 2010 when a member and some associates (or sons of past KC guys) were involved in that bookmaking bust. But in neither example did we see the feds saying there was still a formally organized, active mob family in those cities. This is what we're seeing now.

Jumping to those conclusions is exactly what the feds hypocritically want now.

[UTC]

or they would have said former Todaro family. These releases are laboriously pored over before releasing.

[kingfromqueens]

Ragusa wasn't even officially out of Bureau of Prisons custody, he was in a halfway house.

[Cheech]

Can someone fill me in about this Cantarella? What did he say about Massino, Scascia, etc.?

Stroccos posted it in the fbi files forum. He says essentially Sciascia was killed for questioning TG being a capo due to him being a coke head. Cantarella says that what Massino told him directly. Massino says Sciascia was killed becuase he killed another made mans son.

Thanks. Didn't know that the common story that we know came from him specifically.

Considering Massino's massive ego, I think he killed Sciascia for his own selfish reasons and used the other possible reason (being somehow involved in Cotroni's sons murder) as an excuse. However, I wonder why he made such a big deal of keeping his involvement a secret to others in the family (the Rizzutos, etc.) when he could use the killing of a made man's son as a legitimate reason. It doesn't really seem to add up.

for you sir

Capture.PNG

[Wiseguy]

Jumping to those conclusions is exactly what the feds hypocritically want now.

Not sure what you mean.

or they would have said former Todaro family. These releases are laboriously pored over before releasing.

Not necessarily. The Violis being made in that family doesn't automatically mean the family itself is still really functioning. Before he flipped and testified in court, D'Elia was a member (regarded as the boss) of the Bufalino family even though that family was long gone.

As for Buffalo, as I've mentioned many times, the feds had a chart of the family back in 2006, which showed 23 members still living at the time. Since then several members have died, leaving about a dozen or so left. And despite what a phony poster on GBB (Rooster) says, there's no evidence of them continuing to make new members.

Anyway, the state of the family was summed up in this article (link below) earlier this year.

http://buffalonews.com/2017/03/19/fbi-s ... perations/

[SonnyBlackstein]

Jumping to those conclusions is exactly what the feds hypocritically want now.

Not sure what you mean.

He means the when its in the Feds interest to say they wiped out the Buffalo mob, they will, and when its in the Feds interest to charge someone and list them as an active member of the Buffalo mob, they will.

or they would have said former Todaro family. These releases are laboriously pored over before releasing.

Not necessarily.

The Feds would've deliberately used their terminology for effect is UTC's point. IE Citing a 'Todaro mob'

Anyway, the state of the family was summed up in this article (link below) earlier this year.

http://buffalonews.com/2017/03/19/fbi-s ... perations/

That article cites Maggadino as 'the boss of bosses. The most powerful mob boss in the country' and states the Buffalo mob once had 'over 200 made guys'.

So take it with a pinch of salt.

[Wiseguy]

He means the when its in the Feds interest to say they wiped out the Buffalo mob, they will, and when its in the Feds interest to charge someone and list them as an active member of the Buffalo mob, they will.

There's nothing hypocritical about it if one understands the context. Apparently some don't. Technically speaking, the Violis can be made members of the Todaro crime family and be indicted as such. But that, in itself, doesn't automatically mean - as much as some may wish it does - that there's a formally structured , viable family left there.

That article cites Maggadino as 'the boss of bosses. The most powerful mob boss in the country' and states the Buffalo mob once had 'over 200 made guys'.

So take it with a pinch of salt.

Read the individual quotes in the article from law enforcement regarding the state of the mob there. Furthermore, look at the cases (or relative lack thereof) over the past 15-20 years. Or consider the low number of members left.

It's as if people will ignore a bunch of evidence that suggests a family is no more but jump on one thing and argue it shows a family is still there. They'll never admit it but this seems to suggest wishful thinking and cherrypicking on their part.

Besides D'Elia, another good example is back in the 1990s when some Marcello guys were busted in that video gambling case with the Gambinos and Genovese. Those guys were technically still members of the Marcello family even though the feds considered the family defunct.

[Cheech]

theres no structured mafia in buffalo. it cant be more obvious. lets move on and get back on track.

[johnny_scootch]

As for Buffalo, as I've mentioned many times, the feds had a chart of the family back in 2006, which showed 23 members still living at the time. Since then several members have died, leaving about a dozen or so left. And despite what a phony poster on GBB (Rooster) says, there's no evidence of them continuing to make new members.

Wiseguy were the VIoli's on that list?

[SILENT PARTNERZ]

I wonder who the TODARO crime family they refer to is ? Is this the Buffalo family or someone else ?

Guys in the Hamilton, Ontario regime of the Buffalo Family.

[Laurentian]

Keeping in mind that the Violi brothers were born in Montréal, and then moved to Hamilton, the home-town of their mother Grazia Luppino, I would be inclined to think that they both inducted into the Luppino family, and not necessary into the Buffalo's.

[johnny_scootch]

Keeping in mind that the Violi brothers were born in Montréal, and then moved to Hamilton, the home-town of their mother Grazia Luppino, I would be inclined to think that they both inducted into the Luppino family, and not necessary into the Buffalo's.

I would be inclined to think the same thing but the Feds say otherwise so it lead my to think it's possible some of the Luppino's were/are also members of the Buffalo family. Giacomo Luppino was subservient to Maggadino going back to the 50's and at that time the N'drangheta had none of the preeminence it enjoys now so it's not hard to believe he would crave recognition from American Cosa Nostra which was at the height of its power.

[Wiseguy]

As for Buffalo, as I've mentioned many times, the feds had a chart of the family back in 2006, which showed 23 members still living at the time. Since then several members have died, leaving about a dozen or so left. And despite what a phony poster on GBB (Rooster) says, there's no evidence of them continuing to make new members.

Wiseguy were the VIoli's on that list?

I'm not sure. The specific names weren't mentioned. The info came from a 2012 article referencing the 2006 chart which reportedly showed a boss, underboss, consigliere, 4 captains, and 16 soldiers.

Maybe the Violis aren't the Buffalo members mentioned in the press release. There are a few other Italians in the Canadian bust.

[UTC]

I never said there was an active Todaro family. In fact, the BS was to say these guys were members of the Todaro family when there isn't one. I'm saying that the feds made it sound that way for effect. I realize the distinction you're making, Wiseguy, intellectually it's a valid one, and if I had to defend them I'd say that. But I don't think the feds were making that distinction, and I think it's straining to say that's the gyration they expected people to go through to understand a sound byte. I'm not saying the feds committed the crime of the century. I think the more likely explanation in a publicity piece is that they were trying to BS a little to make their achievement sound bigger. SOP for most entities.