Vena’s crew

[SolarSolano]

Also the guy that got in a fight with Mike Mags was Sammy Louis - grandson of the infamous Sam Louis (Luisi) who went back to the Capone days. The family were all cops, bookies and union guys -

[Fughedaboutit]

Who was the murdered guy who assisted Panozzo with the killing of the elderly women?

Steven Bratner was the guy's name. Burglar and drug dealer (as well as user). I don't believe he actually assisted Panozzo in the actual murder but rather in the scam. What was interesting about the murder was that Panozzo was the one who dropped him off at the hospital, where he later died. Bratner was shot only a quarter-mile from Joey Lombardo's house.

Sounds like Panozzo set him up. He could’ve fell out of line, owed money or maybe something else led to his murder. But i’d be surprised if the outfit didn’t play a role in his murder.

Set him up then dropped him off at the hospital?

[Antiliar]

Also the guy that got in a fight with Mike Mags was Sammy Louis - grandson of the infamous Sam Louis (Luisi) who went back to the Capone days. The family were all cops, bookies and union guys -

Sam Louis (but the newspapers always had Lewis), born Luzi, was another guy who had a scary reputation but little is known about. One informer said he was a supervisor in the Maxwell District who got his power from Accardo and Giancana; another added that he met weekly with Giancana. He was (apparently) part of the Battaglia crew but operated Parr Finance in the Near North Side. Don Parrillo owned Parr Finance, which he got from his father William Parrillo, a Republican politician on the West Side. Lewis lived a block away from Mad Sam DeStefano and they both used Action Jackson to collect loans for time to time. Lewis was an old 42 Gang member, so probably knew Battaglia and Giancana back in the 1920s. He also served 18 months for a bootlegging conviction. Lewis denied being a juice collection and said his company was licensed and fully legal. Despite that, he was ordered out of Oak Park in 1961. The Parrillo family cut ties with him in 1963 because he was a target of law enforcement. Lewis was known to be close to Murray Humphreys and Gus Alex, and he used to meet at Paul Ricca's home on Sunday afternoons with Accardo and Battaglia. Both he and DeStefano, since the 1950s paid tribute to Accardo to operate juice in the West Side. He opened up his own loan business, More Finance, and was reported in 1965 to have a baseball bookmaking operation with Milwaukee Phil and Butch LoVerde. The bookmaking operation didn't do well and lost over $350,000. He died in 1972.

[Villain]

Also the guy that got in a fight with Mike Mags was Sammy Louis - grandson of the infamous Sam Louis (Luisi) who went back to the Capone days. The family were all cops, bookies and union guys -

Sam Louis (but the newspapers always had Lewis), born Luzi, was another guy who had a scary reputation but little is known about. One informer said he was a supervisor in the Maxwell District who got his power from Accardo and Giancana; another added that he met weekly with Giancana. He was (apparently) part of the Battaglia crew but operated Parr Finance in the Near North Side. Don Parrillo owned Parr Finance, which he got from his father William Parrillo, a Republican politician on the West Side. Lewis lived a block away from Mad Sam DeStefano and they both used Action Jackson to collect loans for time to time. Lewis was an old 42 Gang member, so probably knew Battaglia and Giancana back in the 1920s. He also served 18 months for a bootlegging conviction. Lewis denied being a juice collection and said his company was licensed and fully legal. Despite that, he was ordered out of Oak Park in 1961. The Parrillo family cut ties with him in 1963 because he was a target of law enforcement. Lewis was known to be close to Murray Humphreys and Gus Alex, and he used to meet at Paul Ricca's home on Sunday afternoons with Accardo and Battaglia. Both he and DeStefano, since the 1950s paid tribute to Accardo to operate juice in the West Side. He opened up his own loan business, More Finance, and was reported in 1965 to have a baseball bookmaking operation with Milwaukee Phil and Butch LoVerde. The bookmaking operation didn't do well and lost over $350,000. He died in 1972.

Good stuff and thanks.

Speaking about Frank Loverde, or should I say the name Loverde, what's your opinion on this document...

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.htm ... ch=Loverde

[Antiliar]

Good stuff and thanks.

Speaking about Frank Loverde, or should I say the name Loverde, what's your opinion on this document...

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.htm ... ch=Loverde

A cousin of Toto Loverde? Interesting, but it's just a factoid. Don't know anything about Vito Loverde. Maybe he supported the Palestinians, or maybe this Richard Mojica made up a story. Who knows?

[Villain]

Good stuff and thanks.

Speaking about Frank Loverde, or should I say the name Loverde, what's your opinion on this document...

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.htm ... ch=Loverde

A cousin of Toto Loverde? Interesting, but it's just a factoid. Don't know anything about Vito Loverde. Maybe he supported the Palestinians, or maybe this Richard Mojica made up a story. Who knows?

Don't know anything regarding the Loverde family tree, but when I stumbled upon it, and when I saw that "Toto" relation, I just had to ask. Maybe that dude made up the story but besides putting up a name like Loverde out of nowhere, and also the alleged blood relation, he even gave details on how Loverdes girl was dressed at the time, and so the first thing which came on my mind was Frank aka Butch and that "Vito" was a mistake or who knows, since I don't know if Butch was related to Toto or what was the year when he passed....maybe only Vito was some unknown relative... that's why I asked you if you ever saw this "incredible" info lol

During the late 60s, the Outfit allegedly received interests around the middle and far east, possibly with the help of the CIA or maybe they did it by themselves...just some food for thought

[Antiliar]

There's another document (on my phone so can't link) that says investigation found Richard Mojica's statements unfounded and without merit (something like that). So there you go. Maybe he was trying to get this Vito Loverde in trouble.

[Villain]

There's another document (on my phone so can't link) that says investigation found Richard Mojica's statements unfounded and without merit (something like that). So there you go. Maybe he was trying to get this Vito Loverde in trouble.

So this "Vito Loverde" really existed and was related to Toto?

[Antiliar]

There's another document (on my phone so can't link) that says investigation found Richard Mojica's statements unfounded and without merit (something like that). So there you go. Maybe he was trying to get this Vito Loverde in trouble.

So this "Vito Loverde" really existed and was related to Toto?

Would need identifying information, so I don't know. There was a Vito Loverde born in 1949 in Arizona who later moved to Los Angeles, so it might be the same guy. He's young enough that he might still be alive.

[Villain]

There's another document (on my phone so can't link) that says investigation found Richard Mojica's statements unfounded and without merit (something like that). So there you go. Maybe he was trying to get this Vito Loverde in trouble.

So this "Vito Loverde" really existed and was related to Toto?

Would need identifying information, so I don't know. There was a Vito Loverde born in 1949 in Arizona who later moved to Los Angeles, so it might be the same guy. He's young enough that he might still be alive.

Thanks bud. Even though the whole situation sounds impossible, still I wont let this document pass by as nothing important...since there's not even one additional Chicago name mentioned by that same fella, meaning he could've mention names from the top of his head (like many others did) such as Giancana, Roselli, Cain or Trafficante but he didn't... instead he came up with one of the rarest names in the Outfits history lol

[Antiliar]

I can only go by what the documents say. Undoubtedly this Richard Mojica knew or knew of this Vito Loverde, but it doesn't mean the information he gave was accurate. It doesn't mean that Loverde did what Mojica said. For all we know, Mojica could have been a jailhouse snitch who was lying to get his time cut, or get off parole early. There's a reason why investigators didn't trust his information.

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.htm ... ch=loverde

By the way, there were also some Vito Loverdes related to Butch Loverde. This Loverde family originated from Piana dei Greci; Toto Loverde came from Palermo proper, so I don't think the two families were related. Plus, we don't know what the informant Mojica meant by "boss." What a guy on the street means by boss and what the FBI means by boss aren't necessarily the same thing. I've seen guys who were soldiers called bosses by associates. Frank Calabrese was called a boss more than once. So maybe the boss Mojica had in mind was Butch Loverde. We don't know.

[Villain]

I can only go by what the documents say. Undoubtedly this Richard Mojica knew or knew of this Vito Loverde, but it doesn't mean the information he gave was accurate. It doesn't mean that Loverde did what Mojica said. For all we know, Mojica could have been a jailhouse snitch who was lying to get his time cut, or get off parole early. There's a reason why investigators didn't trust his information.

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.htm ... ch=loverde

By the way, there were also some Vito Loverdes related to Butch Loverde. This Loverde family originated from Piana dei Greci; Toto Loverde came from Palermo proper, so I don't think the two families were related. Plus, we don't know what the informant Mojica meant by "boss." What a guy on the street means by boss and what the FBI means by boss aren't necessarily the same thing. I've seen guys who were soldiers called bosses by associates. Frank Calabrese was called a boss more than once. So maybe the boss Mojica had in mind was Butch Loverde. We don't know.

Good info and also very good explanation, thanks. I'll consider it in my final decision regarding the text of the project

[PolackTony]

Who was the murdered guy who assisted Panozzo with the killing of the elderly women?

Steven Bratner was the guy's name. Burglar and drug dealer (as well as user). I don't believe he actually assisted Panozzo in the actual murder but rather in the scam. What was interesting about the murder was that Panozzo was the one who dropped him off at the hospital, where he later died. Bratner was shot only a quarter-mile from Joey Lombardo's house.

Sounds like Panozzo set him up. He could’ve fell out of line, owed money or maybe something else led to his murder. But i’d be surprised if the outfit didn’t play a role in his murder.

Older but good thread. FWIW I believe that Bratner was also a C-Note. It’s always possible that he was killed by the Outfit, but guys were killed over gang wars in that neighborhood back then all the time. It was quite literally a warzone and the C-Notes were super hard in the streets back then, at war with essentially every gang surrounding them (including some of the most notorious sections of the biggest Latino gangs in Chicago such as the Kings, MLDs, and SDs).

If I had to bet, I’d say that Bratner was likely shot by the Huron and Hoyne Latin Kings, who were founded by defector C-Notes the Salas bros and the most virulent enemies of the C-Notes for years.

[slimshady_007]

Who was the murdered guy who assisted Panozzo with the killing of the elderly women?

Steven Bratner was the guy's name. Burglar and drug dealer (as well as user). I don't believe he actually assisted Panozzo in the actual murder but rather in the scam. What was interesting about the murder was that Panozzo was the one who dropped him off at the hospital, where he later died. Bratner was shot only a quarter-mile from Joey Lombardo's house.

Sounds like Panozzo set him up. He could’ve fell out of line, owed money or maybe something else led to his murder. But i’d be surprised if the outfit didn’t play a role in his murder.

Older but good thread. FWIW I believe that Bratner was also a C-Note. It’s always possible that he was killed by the Outfit, but guys were killed over gang wars in that neighborhood back then all the time. It was quite literally a warzone and the C-Notes were super hard in the streets back then, at war with essentially every gang surrounding them (including some of the most notorious sections of the biggest Latino gangs in Chicago such as the Kings, MLDs, and SDs).

If I had to bet, I’d say that Bratner was likely shot by the Huron and Hoyne Latin Kings, who were founded by defector C-Notes the Salas bros and the most virulent enemies of the C-Notes for years.

Thanks for the response. Interesting take on the Bratner murder, I didn’t even know that the C notes gang were that intense back then. I thought they were just a mafia farm team that did robberies.

[PolackTony]

Who was the murdered guy who assisted Panozzo with the killing of the elderly women?

Steven Bratner was the guy's name. Burglar and drug dealer (as well as user). I don't believe he actually assisted Panozzo in the actual murder but rather in the scam. What was interesting about the murder was that Panozzo was the one who dropped him off at the hospital, where he later died. Bratner was shot only a quarter-mile from Joey Lombardo's house.

Sounds like Panozzo set him up. He could’ve fell out of line, owed money or maybe something else led to his murder. But i’d be surprised if the outfit didn’t play a role in his murder.

Older but good thread. FWIW I believe that Bratner was also a C-Note. It’s always possible that he was killed by the Outfit, but guys were killed over gang wars in that neighborhood back then all the time. It was quite literally a warzone and the C-Notes were super hard in the streets back then, at war with essentially every gang surrounding them (including some of the most notorious sections of the biggest Latino gangs in Chicago such as the Kings, MLDs, and SDs).

If I had to bet, I’d say that Bratner was likely shot by the Huron and Hoyne Latin Kings, who were founded by defector C-Notes the Salas bros and the most virulent enemies of the C-Notes for years.

Thanks for the response. Interesting take on the Bratner murder, I didn’t even know that the C notes gang were that intense back then. I thought they were just a mafia farm team that did robberies.

There were a hardcore streetgang going back to the 1950s in the Grand Ave Patch. I grew up near their original territory and they were a very rough and feared organization that committed a ton of violence. As they were historically an Italian/white gang they were in a state of almost permanent war with the mostly Puerto Rican gangs that began to spread across the West Town and Humboldt Park areas in the ‘50s and 60’s. The Grand Ave Patch was surrounded by some of the roughest areas of Chicago — the PR ghettoes to the north and huge black CHA housing projects to the south of the train viaduct on Hubbard. Blacks didn’t venture north of the train tracks because of the Italians. The PR gangs put it on the C-Notes hard for decades but the C-Notes always held their own and only declined due to the intense gentrification of the area in the 90s/2000s. In the 90s the C-Notes joined the Folks alliance and became close associates with gangs like the Dragons and Spanish Cobras (which is why later you see members of these organizations working with the P-K crew).

http://www.chicagoganghistory.com/gang/insane-c-notes/