Double Affiliation

[CabriniGreen]

Got this from the other board....

B.

I'm waiting on new (old) reading material, but what do you think, or know of an Emanuele DeCastro?

Apparently, hes a Sicilian from Palermo, who headed a ndrangheta locale..... in Lombardy....


https://gazzettadelsud.it/articoli/cron ... 901a80c01/

I dont think he was a double affiliate though, all ndrangheta... I just thought it pretty interesting that they DO indeed initiate sicilians, or to put it another way...

I think the ndrangheta level of quasi-masonic networks, and criminal business connections has achieved at the VERY LEADT , parody with Cosa Nostra....

[CabriniGreen]

Should say VERY LEAST... my phone hates me...


One of the most interesting things Sergi says in the seminar...... There is a " Chamber of Control" in Canada, Lombardy, they THINK, there is one in Australia, they also highly suspect there is one in Germany.

I suspect they are trying to build one in NY. I think at the least there might be a couple locales. I suspect the CD alabrians NEED NY....

[CabriniGreen]

Should say VERY LEAST... my phone hates me...


One of the most interesting things Sergi says in the seminar...... There is a " Chamber of Control" in Canada, Lombardy, they THINK, there is one in Australia, they also highly suspect there is one in Germany.

I suspect they are trying to build one in NY. I think at the least there might be a couple locales. I suspect the Calabrians NEED NY....

[JeremyTheJew]

Should say VERY LEAST... my phone hates me...


One of the most interesting things Sergi says in the seminar...... There is a " Chamber of Control" in Canada, Lombardy, they THINK, there is one in Australia, they also highly suspect there is one in Germany.

I suspect they are trying to build one in NY. I think at the least there might be a couple locales. I suspect the CD alabrians NEED NY....

There has not been any mention of Ndragheta presence in NYC at all. As far as i can recall theres one in a Springfield, Illinois or some odd place like that.

Also surprised to hear that about Australia and Germany basically being a command center

[scagghiuni]

Got this from the other board....

B.

I'm waiting on new (old) reading material, but what do you think, or know of an Emanuele DeCastro?

Apparently, hes a Sicilian from Palermo, who headed a ndrangheta locale..... in Lombardy....


https://gazzettadelsud.it/articoli/cron ... 901a80c01/

I dont think he was a double affiliate though, all ndrangheta... I just thought it pretty interesting that they DO indeed initiate sicilians, or to put it another way...

I think the ndrangheta level of quasi-masonic networks, and criminal business connections has achieved at the VERY LEADT , parody with Cosa Nostra....

there are several sicilian (but also neapolitan and apulian) ndrangheta members in north italy, it is not a new thing
they made group of sicilians strong in a zone who were not cosa nostra members
it's the same thing sicilian cosa nostra did in the united states or canada making some calabrian and neapolitan members
it's just opportunity

[scagghiuni]

I suspect they are trying to build one in NY. I think at the least there might be a couple locales. I suspect the CD alabrians NEED NY....

ndrangheta is not so strong in ny to form a locale, there are meybe some members, some drug trafficker and that's all
sicilian mafia is by far stronger in ny/nj i mean sicilians who are not lcn members

[B.]

My understanding too is that historically the early Camorra groups (which predate the term 'ndrangheta with Calabrians) were more open to bringing in non-Calabrian and non-Neapolitan members, as their tiered membership system was different from the Sicilian Mafia Cosa Nostra. The Camorra in that way inducted people based more on opportunism and shared activities, while the early Sicilians have a one-level membership system aside from the hierarchy and members were inducted based on deeper social ties and blood relation. Of course the Sicilian-American mob eventually inducted non-Sicilians but this was a huge move for their organization and its rules, though of course it was also based on opportunism and shared activities. I've learned a lot about the non-Sicilian groups from Chris Christie and don't want to speak out of turn, but this is my basic understanding of one of the core differences between the two groups, at least historically.

Though these organizations have changed over the years, I think you can look at the history of them to get an indication of why they operate the way they do even in modern times. Think about it like the rudder on a ship... turning it a certain way will only slightly change the movement of the ship in the short-term, but in the long-term it will dramatically change the ship's direction, yet you can still trace that direction back to when they originally moved the rudder. Pretentious analogy maybe, but an accurate way of seeing these groups.

[CabriniGreen]

@Jeremy

There was the guy, Raffaele Valente? From the way he was talking, he STRONGLY hinted that he was running either an ndrine, or a locale in NY. This was before the bust.... Sergis report, kinda described, how I put it? LCN authorized Ndrangheta operations? I guess?


I see the problems with Montreal, and the problems with the Wolfpack in BC, it's why I said I THINK,
they need access to NY. To circumvent those import points, which they dont have total control, or at least, friendlier allies...

I dont know, (maybe unlikely, not really sure) if there is a locale in NY. This is why I find the interaction of guys like Semplice with Italian nationals as HIGHLY INTERESTING.

[scagghiuni]

@Jeremy

There was the guy, Raffaele Valente? From the way he was talking, he STRONGLY hinted that he was running either an ndrine, or a locale in NY. This was before the bust.... Sergis report, kinda described, how I put it? LCN authorized Ndrangheta operations? I guess?

valente was a ndrangheta member born in campania involved in drug trafficking that had connections in ny as a transit point for cocaine destined to italy, he didn't run any ndrina or locale and he was connected also to gambino's and bonanno's
ndrangheta has not any relevant activity in ny

[CabriniGreen]

The entire point of a locale in NY WOULD be to establish a transit point from NY to Italy..

We are saying the same thing...

[scagghiuni]

you said valente run a locale in ny i said there is not any locale in new york, just some ndrangheta traffickers that is a different thing

[CabriniGreen]

No, I said I believe ndrangheta is TRYING to establish a Chamber of Control in NY. To do this, they would need to establish locali.

Based on wires of Valente saying he had an armed group under him in NY.... I SUSPECTED there MIGHT be a locale or two in NY....
He got busted, what happened to the group?


Also, Sergi saying Calabrian mobsters were operating in NY, seemingly with the same clout as made men.

ALSO, the continuing problems in Montreal and British Colombia, would make NY attractive as a transit point.

Again, like I said to B., this is more like " Combative agreement", than actually disagreeing.

Why is it when people mention calabrians in NY, they automatically think they have to COMPETE with the 5 families?

They need access to NY as a transit, to echo Confederate, these guys arnt crossing the Atlantic to COMPETE with made men in NY. To open a sportsbook, shake down a restaurant, or supply em with liquor or linens. They arnt loaning the local businesses money, arnt shaking down unions, arnt making inroads into local politics and city and state business structures.

It's just a transit point for narcotics, they arnt pushing NY based made men out of drug territory or whatever. I dont even know if THEY, the calabrians WOULD push drugs in NY.

They want to get the narcotics in the hands of the Clans Barbaro, Pesce, Bellocco, all the clans that DIRECTLY control markets in Europe, Australia, ect....

[CabriniGreen]

I think I even said already, earlier in the thread, Calabrian presence in NY, in my opinion actually ENHANCES the power of the families, and increases the Calabrians contacts.....but it limits their overall control.

Confederate mentioned the 80s sicilians, and how they sent guys over to create horizontal AND vertical control. All drug clans want this situation. The Rizzutos wanted this, it's why Violi got hit....

The methods of the Caruana- Cuntreras, and the 80s Gambinos, these clans that were so successful in the transatlantic trade, they were duplicated WHOLESALE by the entire ndrangheta. I really think it's the source of the conflicts. Control of markets, both supply and distribution...


It's just business, think Amazon. They move product. It's the strength of the company. They dont PHYSICALLY occupy say NY, with like a huge Amazon STORE in Times Square. They control markets in any and ALL territories.

They wanted to get into the food business. They started trying to establish " Locali", ie Amazon Fresh, PHYSICAL stores, drive through groceries, all kinda mess.

Well, they discovered that takes time, so they just went and BOUGHT Whole Foods, built in customer base, brand, contacts, marketing, all that, only difference,
this would be a partnership, not a purchase.

The families cant really OWN ndrangheta, and the calabrians cant really BUY the families.

But this is precisely the heart of the issue. The families initiate guys, in an attempt to OWN the business. Drug bosses cut deals with capos and soldiers in an attempt to BUY them. Like I said earlier, the flip side of capitalism, I love this shit....

It's not EXACTLY the same thing, but kinda similar in business terms...

Basically, if you dont build your own stores, you supply the existing ones.

[scagghiuni]

they established a network in order to control cocaine destined to europe
like the sicilians did in the 1970s and 1980s, they never formed families in the states, but they went there in order to distribute heroin producted in sicily, sometimes through ny families
some of them were made in the ny families, same not

[CabriniGreen]

@scagghuini

For example here...

The Piromalli olive oil business. Supposedly they supplied a ton of fake olive oil to NY....

With the 5 families or without? In what boroughs? What supermarket chains? Mafia affiliated ones?
This is just OLIVE OIL, and really, we know nothing...