2022 national confirmed membership counts

[Newyorkempire]

That is a lucid, well thought out and intelligent post. I’m sure while sitting on his mafia throne high up in the foothills of the Sierra Nevada mountains wiseguy will yell OVERRULED!


Was in the bagel store earlier Nicky dragonetti (Gambino) is a few people ahead of me and Sal Canistraci (Colombo) is right behind me. I bullshit with Sal a little he’s a good guy but not Nicky he’s a jerkoff!

Sierra Nevada Mountains...lol...if you need to know about hiking Wiseguy is your guide. And anything related to OC you can just read an article he provides detailing every single piece of information that exists today for any family. That guy is in absolute genius when it comes to copying and pasting.

[Wiseguy]

Just to be a smart ass I hit up one of those background check websites and found out some interesting figures relating to this section of the conversation.

6 confirmed living and made Patriarca members either currently live in Maine or have had a current part time residence in southern Maine in the last 2 years.

2 confirmed and living members live in New Hampshire, including one who lives 15 minutes from me incidentally and interestingly enough, Carmen Tortora, lives in Whitefield NH, which is 10 minutes from Vermont, an hour from the Canadian border, and just under 3 hours from Montreal……(he could be the super secret New England Liaison to the Rizzutos/Controni/Bonnanos in Canada……not to mention……wait for it…….the main Patriarca ambassador to the Arm in Buffalo.

You just summed up the problem rather well. Assuming you're telling the truth and a handful of Patriarca members have residences in other parts of New England, it's more likely that tells us they have simply moved away from the family's traditional bases and are not active anymore. The general decline in membership, activity, and their footprint in the region would certainly lead one to that conclusion. Not imagining improbable connections to a non-existent family in Buffalo or Bonannos in Montreal (as if there were any).

Just wait. After the flood of fawning PMs I received for going head to head with you I’ve developed a following and this info getting dropped is sure to lead to a 100 page thread at Gangster BB.

The blind leading the blind?

Honestly Wiseguy Most guys on the board have a huge amount of respect for you and all myself and a few others were trying to accomplish with you and pogo was simply attempting to get our points across that as individuals that are often directly connected and if not maybe 1 or 2 degrees removed from members of our real life Broader communities and local underworlds that you believe you know better then us, a large percentage of the community at the blackhand club is afraid to even offer an opinion or engage in healthy debate. Also, I am of the inclination that as someone on the outside looking in when it comes to the so called underworld or criminal lifestyle, it is almost impossible for you to recognize the banality that the average career criminal IE member/associate of LCN or similar organization views/experiences their life with. The difference between you and many of us is that you cannot grasp the subjects of discussion past a one dimensional paradigm. Your empathetic point of reference is a gangland news article or Goodfellas or Underboss (Maas not Lehr). It is at best a fantasy to you, leading you to perceive that it couldn’t be reality for any of the rest of us, including the gangsters that you study.

I'd perhaps take those you describe above more seriously if they had a better track record. But in my 15+ years on these forums, those claiming inside knowledge courtesy of their zipcode are legion. And, far more often than not, their "hot takes" and "fresh street talk" hasn't lined of with reality. That's not my fault. Simply the result of posters misrepresenting themselves and exaggerating what they really know.

This isn’t about the status of the New England Mob.

It's not? That's what it certainly started out as.

It’s about your treatment of other board participants, including many who not only like and respect you and value your knowledge, but maybe even look up to you and the unwavering qualities of leadership you show.

Can’t we all just get along?

Believe it or not, I don't come here to make enemies. I don't necessarily come here to make friends either. My main priority is getting as clear a picture as possible of organized crime, past and present. I'm all for "getting along," but not if it means indulging in nonsense.

Sierra Nevada Mountains...lol...if you need to know about hiking Wiseguy is your guide. And anything related to OC you can just read an article he provides detailing every single piece of information that exists today for any family. That guy is in absolute genius when it comes to copying and pasting.

Shouldn't you be in another thread alleging the Buffalo Mob has created stories of its demise through influence of the local press?

[Newyorkempire]

Just to be a smart ass I hit up one of those background check websites and found out some interesting figures relating to this section of the conversation.

6 confirmed living and made Patriarca members either currently live in Maine or have had a current part time residence in southern Maine in the last 2 years.

2 confirmed and living members live in New Hampshire, including one who lives 15 minutes from me incidentally and interestingly enough, Carmen Tortora, lives in Whitefield NH, which is 10 minutes from Vermont, an hour from the Canadian border, and just under 3 hours from Montreal……(he could be the super secret New England Liaison to the Rizzutos/Controni/Bonnanos in Canada……not to mention……wait for it…….the main Patriarca ambassador to the Arm in Buffalo.

You just summed up the problem rather well. Assuming you're telling the truth and a handful of Patriarca members have residences in other parts of New England, it's more likely that tells us they have simply moved away from the family's traditional bases and are not active anymore. The general decline in membership, activity, and their footprint in the region would certainly lead one to that conclusion. Not imagining improbable connections to a non-existent family in Buffalo or Bonannos in Montreal (as if there were any).

Just wait. After the flood of fawning PMs I received for going head to head with you I’ve developed a following and this info getting dropped is sure to lead to a 100 page thread at Gangster BB.

The blind leading the blind?

Honestly Wiseguy Most guys on the board have a huge amount of respect for you and all myself and a few others were trying to accomplish with you and pogo was simply attempting to get our points across that as individuals that are often directly connected and if not maybe 1 or 2 degrees removed from members of our real life Broader communities and local underworlds that you believe you know better then us, a large percentage of the community at the blackhand club is afraid to even offer an opinion or engage in healthy debate. Also, I am of the inclination that as someone on the outside looking in when it comes to the so called underworld or criminal lifestyle, it is almost impossible for you to recognize the banality that the average career criminal IE member/associate of LCN or similar organization views/experiences their life with. The difference between you and many of us is that you cannot grasp the subjects of discussion past a one dimensional paradigm. Your empathetic point of reference is a gangland news article or Goodfellas or Underboss (Maas not Lehr). It is at best a fantasy to you, leading you to perceive that it couldn’t be reality for any of the rest of us, including the gangsters that you study.

I'd perhaps take those you describe above more seriously if they had a better track record. But in my 15+ years on these forums, those claiming inside knowledge courtesy of their zipcode are legion. And, far more often than not, their "hot takes" and "fresh street talk" hasn't lined of with reality. That's not my fault. Simply the result of posters misrepresenting themselves and exaggerating what they really know.

This isn’t about the status of the New England Mob.

It's not? That's what it certainly started out as.

It’s about your treatment of other board participants, including many who not only like and respect you and value your knowledge, but maybe even look up to you and the unwavering qualities of leadership you show.

Can’t we all just get along?

Believe it or not, I don't come here to make enemies. I don't necessarily come here to make friends either. My main priority is getting as clear a picture as possible of organized crime, past and present. I'm all for "getting along," but not if it means indulging in nonsense.

Sierra Nevada Mountains...lol...if you need to know about hiking Wiseguy is your guide. And anything related to OC you can just read an article he provides detailing every single piece of information that exists today for any family. That guy is in absolute genius when it comes to copying and pasting.

Shouldn't you be in another thread alleging the Buffalo Mob has created stories of its demise through influence of the local press?

You are a genius brother. Copy and paste skills like no other.

[Newyorkempire]

Just to be a smart ass I hit up one of those background check websites and found out some interesting figures relating to this section of the conversation.

6 confirmed living and made Patriarca members either currently live in Maine or have had a current part time residence in southern Maine in the last 2 years.

2 confirmed and living members live in New Hampshire, including one who lives 15 minutes from me incidentally and interestingly enough, Carmen Tortora, lives in Whitefield NH, which is 10 minutes from Vermont, an hour from the Canadian border, and just under 3 hours from Montreal……(he could be the super secret New England Liaison to the Rizzutos/Controni/Bonnanos in Canada……not to mention……wait for it…….the main Patriarca ambassador to the Arm in Buffalo.

You just summed up the problem rather well. Assuming you're telling the truth and a handful of Patriarca members have residences in other parts of New England, it's more likely that tells us they have simply moved away from the family's traditional bases and are not active anymore. The general decline in membership, activity, and their footprint in the region would certainly lead one to that conclusion. Not imagining improbable connections to a non-existent family in Buffalo or Bonannos in Montreal (as if there were any).

Just wait. After the flood of fawning PMs I received for going head to head with you I’ve developed a following and this info getting dropped is sure to lead to a 100 page thread at Gangster BB.

The blind leading the blind?

Honestly Wiseguy Most guys on the board have a huge amount of respect for you and all myself and a few others were trying to accomplish with you and pogo was simply attempting to get our points across that as individuals that are often directly connected and if not maybe 1 or 2 degrees removed from members of our real life Broader communities and local underworlds that you believe you know better then us, a large percentage of the community at the blackhand club is afraid to even offer an opinion or engage in healthy debate. Also, I am of the inclination that as someone on the outside looking in when it comes to the so called underworld or criminal lifestyle, it is almost impossible for you to recognize the banality that the average career criminal IE member/associate of LCN or similar organization views/experiences their life with. The difference between you and many of us is that you cannot grasp the subjects of discussion past a one dimensional paradigm. Your empathetic point of reference is a gangland news article or Goodfellas or Underboss (Maas not Lehr). It is at best a fantasy to you, leading you to perceive that it couldn’t be reality for any of the rest of us, including the gangsters that you study.

I'd perhaps take those you describe above more seriously if they had a better track record. But in my 15+ years on these forums, those claiming inside knowledge courtesy of their zipcode are legion. And, far more often than not, their "hot takes" and "fresh street talk" hasn't lined of with reality. That's not my fault. Simply the result of posters misrepresenting themselves and exaggerating what they really know.

This isn’t about the status of the New England Mob.

It's not? That's what it certainly started out as.

It’s about your treatment of other board participants, including many who not only like and respect you and value your knowledge, but maybe even look up to you and the unwavering qualities of leadership you show.

Can’t we all just get along?

Believe it or not, I don't come here to make enemies. I don't necessarily come here to make friends either. My main priority is getting as clear a picture as possible of organized crime, past and present. I'm all for "getting along," but not if it means indulging in nonsense.

Sierra Nevada Mountains...lol...if you need to know about hiking Wiseguy is your guide. And anything related to OC you can just read an article he provides detailing every single piece of information that exists today for any family. That guy is in absolute genius when it comes to copying and pasting.

Shouldn't you be in another thread alleging the Buffalo Mob has created stories of its demise through influence of the local press?

So is it you do believe journalists or you dont believe them when they write about the Mafia? Please pick one. You like it both ways when it fits your argument but then shy away from it when it negates your narrative. Is that a Mormon thing?

[Wiseguy]

You are a genius brother. Copy and paste skills like no other.

I'll talk cut and pasted facts over made up bullshit. But that's me.

So is it you do believe journalists or you dont believe them when they write about the Mafia? Please pick one. You like it both ways when it fits your argument but then shy away from it when it negates your narrative. Is that a Mormon thing?

It depends on the journalist/article, on a case by case basis, and how what they say corresponds with the evidence overall.

What I'm saying to you is you alluding to the idea the Buffalo is dead has come, even in part, from journalists under Mob influence and pushing that narrative as a result, just shows how far removed from reality you are. It's the exact kind of loony bullshit I'm talking about.

[Newyorkempire]

You are a genius brother. Copy and paste skills like no other.

I'll talk cut and pasted facts over made up bullshit. But that's me.

So is it you do believe journalists or you dont believe them when they write about the Mafia? Please pick one. You like it both ways when it fits your argument but then shy away from it when it negates your narrative. Is that a Mormon thing?

It depends on the journalist/article, on a case by case basis, and how what they say corresponds with the evidence overall.

What I'm saying to you is you alluding to the idea the Buffalo is dead has come, even in part, from journalists under Mob influence and pushing that narrative as a result, just shows how far removed from reality you are. It's the exact kind of loony bullshit I'm talking about.

Again, its not bullshit just because some guy our in Utah says it is. If you choose to not believe it, that's fine. You can patter your fists and accuse others of be out of touch with reality but it was a possible link based on connections, I didnt say I have a source in the editors office that told me that Mazzara was definitely influencing articles. Youre confusing the two. One is a possibility, you get angry at posters when they correlate events to come up with a synopsis. Thats the only loony s hit going on here.

Im asking your specifically about accuracy of a 1998 article as well. You cant have it both ways. Either you believe what is published or you dont. You cant cherry pick to continue to claim your narrative. Its not logical or reasonable.

[Wiseguy]

Again, its not bullshit just because some guy our in Utah says it is. If you choose to not believe it, that's fine. You can patter your fists and accuse others of be out of touch with reality but it was a possible link based on connections, I didnt say I have a source in the editors office that told me that Mazzara was definitely influencing articles. Youre confusing the two. One is a possibility, you get angry at posters when they correlate events to come up with a synopsis. Thats the only loony s hit going on here.

Im asking your specifically about accuracy of a 1998 article as well. You cant have it both ways. Either you believe what is published or you dont. You cant cherry pick to continue to claim your narrative. Its not logical or reasonable.

First, if you think it's reasonable to even entertain the notion there has been some coordinated effort between the Buffalo mob and local press to push a narrative of the mob being dead as a way to deflect attention, you're even more of a nut job than I thought and there really is no point in talking to you.

Second, what am I trying to have both ways? You keep mentioning Coppola's 1998 article. Without getting into all the specifics, the general point of the article was the family's weakened state at the time. And that was nearly 25 years ago. And Coppola has said the same thing all along, including in recent years. The other available evidence supports what he has said.

[Newyorkempire]

Again, its not bullshit just because some guy our in Utah says it is. If you choose to not believe it, that's fine. You can patter your fists and accuse others of be out of touch with reality but it was a possible link based on connections, I didnt say I have a source in the editors office that told me that Mazzara was definitely influencing articles. Youre confusing the two. One is a possibility, you get angry at posters when they correlate events to come up with a synopsis. Thats the only loony s hit going on here.

Im asking your specifically about accuracy of a 1998 article as well. You cant have it both ways. Either you believe what is published or you dont. You cant cherry pick to continue to claim your narrative. Its not logical or reasonable.

First, if you think it's reasonable to even entertain the notion there has been some coordinated effort between the Buffalo mob and local press to push a narrative of the mob being dead as a way to deflect attention, you're even more of a nut job than I thought and there really is no point in talking to you.

Second, what am I trying to have both ways? You keep mentioning Coppola's 1998 article. Without getting into all the specifics, the general point of the article was the family's weakened state at the time. And that was nearly 25 years ago. And Coppola has said the same thing all along, including in recent years. The other available evidence supports what he has said.

Again, its like trying to reach an infant algebra.

The other available evidence doesnt support anything. Unless you take away Violi and Iavarone, Coppola is as lost as you are.

[OcSleeper]

@wiseguy @NewYorkEmpire

Can you two keep your argument to one thread only or better yet take it to your DMs so every thread isn't derailed by the argument yall have every 5-9 days.

Sincerely
The Forum

[mike68]

I'd like to report a hijacked thread.....