Cleveland Crime Family

[Patrickgold]

There.

Never ending

[Angelo Santino]

There.

Never ending

Like my braciole.

[Pogo The Clown]

Lonardo was acting boss until he was incarcerated, during which time he kept his underboss role. In that time he was likely working on his case, unconnected to the organization (or lack of as we know) on the street. He did say there was no more organization. But he also went onto say that one member could turn that around, he gets recognized and begins making people. It's in his testimony.

Yes but that goes back to what I was saying. Lonardo didn't consider living members (Tronolone, Liberatore, Sinito, etc) in and of themselves to constitute a family. So while he did say there was "no family in Cleveland, It was destroyed" he also said that LCN itself wasn't finished in Cleveland because there were still Cleveland LCN made members living. So it looks like he was drawing a distinction between LCN existing in a city and an LCN family existing in a city.


Pogo

[Angelo Santino]

Lonardo was acting boss until he was incarcerated, during which time he kept his underboss role. In that time he was likely working on his case, unconnected to the organization (or lack of as we know) on the street. He did say there was no more organization. But he also went onto say that one member could turn that around, he gets recognized and begins making people. It's in his testimony.

Yes but that goes back to what I was saying. Lonardo didn't consider living members (Tronolone, Liberatore, Sinito, etc) in and of themselves to constitute a family. So while he did say there was "no family in Cleveland, It was destroyed" he also said that LCN itself wasn't finished in Cleveland because there were still Cleveland LCN made members living. So it looks like he was drawing a distinction between LCN existing in a city and an LCN family existing in a city.


Pogo

Purely operational. There was no admin, hierarchy or any sizable amount of soldiers. One could not be Angelo Lonardo and conclude that Cleveland was still a cohesive intact Family after the 80's. I don't think anyone is on the other side of this issue.
*Addendum, no one was made into that family for 3 decades, things we anemic, bloodlines were severed. Licavoli may have been chosen due to his relatives in St Louis and Detroit and B and I had an entire discussion on whether or not his Terrasinese bloodlines were a factor (I'm dubious while B. sees more to it), but what isn't in dispute is that everyone made in the 1980's where up and coming criminals- Gallo, Sinito etc, not direct relatives like we seen in other groups. Scalish severed the bloodlines. After 30 years it couldn't be anything but a criminal organization where members are recruited from their perceived best criminal acumen. In the 1980's there were about 20-30 capable guys, according to Stroccos, who weren't made because everyone got busted. Had Cleveland had another 5 year run, things may have ran longer. (To be clear, even if this theory were true, IMO, CL would likely still resemble what it does today- nothing..)

Once Lonardo defected, why would the existing members care what his opinion was? "Hey Peanuts, how is Florida? According to Big Ange we're defunct, he's testifying now, are we still a Family?" - Peanuts: "Florida is hot and humid like my balls. Are we still viable, Hmmmmm, I don't know, I'll call Chin, see what he says."

Such a scenario or anything close to it likely never happened. I'm not being a smartass, you get what I mean.

[Angelo Santino]

Stroccamin', we're discussing your city, if there's anything I or anyone else is mistaken on, please weigh in.

[Pogo The Clown]

*Addendum, no one was made into that family for 3 decades, things we anemic, bloodlines were severed. Licavoli may have been chosen due to his relatives in St Louis and Detroit and B and I had an entire discussion on whether or not his Terrasinese bloodlines were a factor (I'm dubious while B. sees more to it), but what isn't in dispute is that everyone made in the 1980's where up and coming criminals- Gallo, Sinito etc, not direct relatives like we seen in other groups. Scalish severed the bloodlines. After 30 years it couldn't be anything but a criminal organization where members are recruited from their perceived best criminal acumen. In the 1980's there were about 20-30 capable guys, according to Stroccos, who weren't made because everyone got busted. Had Cleveland had another 5 year run, things may have ran longer. (To be clear, even if this theory were true, IMO, CL would likely still resemble what it does today- nothing..)

Clevleand was unique in that while they were severely weakened by attrition they were actually finished off by having all of the remaining active members getting locked up. So in other words not their choice. This differed from the other defunct families who, while weekened by prosecutions, were actually finished off by attrition and the leaders not choosing to keep things going by bringing in new blood. Possibly why we saw more residual criminal activity in Cleveland throughout the 90s and early 2000s than we saw with a lot of the other defunct groups.

Once Lonardo became a rat, why would the existing members care what his opinion was?

Yeah but let's say he didn't flip. Would his view really have been any different? Would the view of the few remaining members really have differed from Lonardo's if they were being honest about it?


Pogo

[Wiseguy]

If NY and every other Mafia-affiliated city with a Family regards and recognizes this Tommy Gambino as Underboss of LA, then that weighs more (to them) than any claim that LA isn't viable. NY isn't going to say: "Let's call Tommy in LA, oh wait a minute, he's not viable according to the Feds." When Pete Milano died what happened to this guy's status? Maybe we're making the wrong conclusions when we note an absence of street crews going around committing crimes.

Didn't this essentially happen back in the 1990s when Milano himself was alive? I seem to recall DiLeonardo talking about a meeting he and someone else connected to the Gambino family had with Milano. If I recall correctly, Pete was pushing for some kind of percentage or whatever from something the Gambinos were doing in LA at the time and Scars basically chuckled and told Milano "those days were over." In other words, Milano was still recognized as an LCN member, as well as boss in a technical sense, but it was of a basically defunct family and he had no real say over who did what in LA.

The same thing happened in the late 1980's in New Orleans. That's when some of the NY families were first looking to get involved in video gambling there. Gravano was told not to be concerned with the Marcellos, as they "didn't mean nothing down there anymore." The Gambino and Genovese families did end up working with what was left of the New Orleans family before they were busted in the mid-1990s but it wasn't because they were obligated to.

Regarding the son, he travels to Sicily and meets with members there frequently. Are you prepared to say that Tommy Gambino has no involvement and his meeting with Sicilian amico nos is just guys rehashing the old days? You may feel comfortable concluding that. I myself do not know. I'm fine with that.

Good discussion. Salut.

Unless I'm completely confused, which is possible (these Sicilians are hard to keep track of), I think we are talking about two different guys.

Felice, Strax or someone else can maybe clarify but the Thomas Gambino I'm talking about is the son of Rosario Gambino and was made into the LA family.

The Thomas Gambino you're talking about is the son of Joseph Gambino, was made into the Gambino family, and was among the 19 charged in the Sicilian-American bust last year.

[Angelo Santino]

Can't speak for anyone else but after going round and round with Pogo / Wiseguy I feel like Bats and I didn't even ask them for a shinebox. Ooof. :



You both catch shit on here from people, but from me to youse, please don't ever change. You serve a great purpose here. Even if you both make me want to smash my fucking laptop at times.

Regarding DILeonardo and Milano, they asked his permission, even though Milano didn't get what he wanted, they alerted him they were coming in. That's my takeaway. But what you said intrigues me to ask him more. I'll ask him and see what he says. If he tells me Pete was a total pussy and the Gambinos just stormed in there, which counters my argument, I'll post it. No ego.

It's late, have a good night.

[B.]

Defund Pogo and Wiseguy!

... and the board will descend into chaos. We'll have current charts for every defunct family. Cleveland will have a full administration and fifteen captains overseeing a hundred members. Chicago will even have a consigliere and Tampa's elder council will be mailing cigars to their compaesani in Agrigento.

It is a union or rather an exclusive boy's club. Ranks aside, there's a basic rule, members acknowledge each other: you don't hit another made guy even if he's a scumbag and you dont' move into another boss' territory even if he has no soldiers. It is what it is, we as researchers and students should seek to better understand that, not disregard it. During the Philly dispute no one turned to D'Elia and said: "Fuck do you know, you have nobody under you." New York didn't chime in: "Don't listen to Billy, he's just a boss in name." We have no evidence of this, quite the opposite in fact.

I need to start using a union as the example, as it's a much more accurate way of looking at it:

- The mafia isn't so much a "gang" as it is an inherently corrupt union. There was even that unmade informant decades ago who told the FBI something like, "They got books just like unions and they won't open 'em for anyone."

- It's not a coincidence that early Chicago used the "Unione" as a thinly-veiled front for the mafia and I believe it plays into why the mafia was able to dominate and manipulate labor unions so effectively -- they were already working with a similar model.

- Like unions, the mafia is a system of representation, or at least it's supposed to be. The term "rappresentante" was used for at least a century to refer to what is sometimes called "capomafia" or "boss", and that term, meaning representative, is the term we see most often in wiretaps of the bosses themselves during the 1960s.

- The rappresentante was an elected position who represented the membership in mafia politics. Gravano didn't say "I want to switch governments" just to be cute -- the mafia is a political system and its leaders are like political leaders in "real" government or union officials. They are elected representatives, who then appoint their cabinet (underboss and capodecina; the consigliere was elected independently). This underboss and capodecina often operate more like "gang bosses", though they are politicians, too.

- If you look at Al Capone, he was already a "gang boss" prior to becoming a mafia member. When he became a mafia member he received his "union card", which then gave him the authority to become a "union official" -- a rappresentante who could represent the local mafia organization and receive recognition from the other national mafia organizations. It was an organizational matter more than it was functional, not to say it had no function.

- Like "real" politicians and "real" union officials, mafia leaders can easily become corrupt tyrants, which is what we typically think of when we hear "mafia boss" through the pop culture lens. There are still bosses who operate more like true political reps, though. There are examples of rappresentanti on both ends of the spectrum as well as everything in between, both past and present.

- The mafia is an inherently corrupt and unlawful organization according to US and Italian law, so when I say they are prone to corruption, I also mean they corrupt even their own internal rules, which is why they have "fixed" rappresentanti and consiglieri elections, unjust murders, lies, and break countless other mafia rules. The rules aren't always broken, though, and the model is still one of political representation and not based around a top-down "gang boss" even though the organization can and does devolve into that just like a real union or political party.

--

Re: Lonardo

I'd have to see the exact context of Lonardo's statement about the organization being "destroyed", but I'm reminded of the way DiLeonardo has spoken about Peter Gotti. He considers Pete Gotti a nobody, both when he became boss as well as now, but Gotti was and is the official boss/rappresentante. If the mafia was purely a functional "gang" organization, Capeci would have never needed to make his correction that Gotti was still boss after claiming otherwise. Everyone agrees that Gotti has little weight in the organization, but if we want to discuss the organization as it actually is, we have to label him boss/rappresentante even if it has no functional value. The same could be said for the entire Cleveland family at the time Lonardo testified but it doesn't mean there wasn't an official organization with members/leadership.

--

Re: Local representation / protocol

I wrote a lot about the rule/protocol of making contact with local representatives in the thread about Wyoming Cosa Nostra member and State Senator Louis Boschetto under the "Regional Protocol and Rules" section. Some of it might be relevant to this discussion:

viewtopic.php?f=29&t=5942

--

Other random thoughts about protocol:

- A few years ago, Buffalo underboss Domenico Violi told a cooperating Bonanno member that his boss Joe Todaro requested approval from NYC leaders to promote a Canadian member to underboss. This reminds me of Nicky Scarfo consulting NYC leaders about promoting his young nephew to underboss. In both cases, the boss was concerned that his preferred candidate for underboss was not qualified for the position based on age or location, but New York assured them that age and location did not matter and the candidates were both promoted. There was thirty years between these events but the message is clear: an underboss can be anyone who is a made member in a given family.

- So can a boss. While Cleveland may have had few candidates in the 1980s, John Tronolone was a strange candidate given he likely never lived in Cleveland. He was a former Buffalo figure who appears to have followed the DiCarlo-Pieri faction into the Cleveland family remotely, living in Florida for many decades. However, he was only a strange candidate if we look at him as a "gang boss" -- as a politician or union rep, he was perfect for the role.

- The Salerno Palma Boys tapes show that Tronolone as Cleveland boss became politically involved in internal disputes within the Buffalo and Philadelphia families in the early 1980s and met with the Commission regarding both issues. We know from historical sources that the role of a rappresentante is not simply to direct the affairs of his own family, but is often as much about national politics, even when a rappresentante is not on the Commission, so Tronolone's involvement with Buffalo and Philadelphia's internal conflicts is not surprising.

- Tronolone's location in Florida also gave him convenient access to national mafia figures, which would have been much more difficult if he was stuffed up in a Cleveland social club. We know that Joe Todaro Sr. similarly used Florida not only to run his own organization but to maintain his place in the national mafia network, and based on the Violi recording it appears Todaro Jr. is continuing this trend to some degree.

- I'm reminded too of Joe Bruno and Joe Ida in Philadelphia serving as consecutive bosses of Philadelphia from New Brunswick, NJ. This worked because they were political representatives located close to the mafia's political center in NYC/Newark, which was more important than being "gang bosses" in South Philly (think of capoprovincia who live in Palermo despite being from other provinces, i.e. Giuseppe Calderone, Salvatore Maranzano, etc.). Philadelphia having two bosses close to Newark for 20+ years makes Newark-based consigliere Caponigro less of an outlier and normalizes his attempt to become boss. In fact, Caponigro's proximity to NYC and close interactions with NYC/NJ leaders may have influenced him to make his move, while Phil Testa had few ties to NYC and required Nicky Scarfo to make contact with NYC leaders -- if it was about being a "gang boss" of Philly, Testa as underboss was the prime candidate no question, but Scarfo had the political ties and was NYC's preferred candidate and the reason Testa was able to get their support.

--

As for modern Cleveland, I have no clue nor the interest in giving an opinion on what is or isn't happening there. A few thoughts, though:

- I find it extremely unlikely that there is a "gang boss" overseeing a pyramid-shaped organization of any size in Cleveland. However, I wouldn't rule out that there is a union-esque representative there who other mafia organizations can contact as a matter of protocol. We have no way of knowing whether or not there is someone in this role (however limited it might be).

- It all comes down to whether the Gambino family reached out to someone when Carmine Agnello moved there. If no Cleveland members were contacted and no Cleveland members were upset about it, then that's a definitive answer on the existence of a Cleveland mafia family as far as I'm concerned. However, if a local Cleveland member was contacted about Agnello or if one wasn't contacted and someone in Cleveland felt disrespected, that indicates there is still a mafia representative in the area who understands time-honored mafia protocol.

- I try not to assume anything without confirmation one way or another. We just found out Bonanno members are traveling to Sicily to meet with a Castellammarese boss named Domingo and a Sciacchitano boss named Accursio Dimino (what year is it?) and if that's possible, it's not hard for me to imagine New York having contact with whatever is left in Cleveland. Joe Todaro Jr. is allegedly still in contact with NYC in matters of protocol and Bonanno members visiting Ontario followed protocol with Violi, the area's representative.

- Without insider info, it is almost impossible to determine if contact has taken place. I wouldn't have been able to guess that the Bonannos were strengthening their ties to Castellammare Del Golfo if the arrests hadn't happened recently and if someone had floated that theory on the board without evidence, I suspect it would have been shot down. People shot down the article from about a decade ago about NYC strengthening their Sicilian ties and sure enough that is exactly what was happening.

- The current Bonanno->Castellammare and Gambino->Palermo connections are less surprising when you consider that both organizations are alive and well on both a functional and organizational level. All they have to do is connect the dots in the network which is exactly what they've managed to do because that is what they do. I would have no problem accepting new info that Cleveland has somebody representing whatever is left of them and that this person/group could serve as a point of contact for NYC, but the idea of them being any more than that is unlikely when we compare them to the Bonanno and Castellammarese mafia families.

- We do have Accursio Dimino, boss of Sciacca, talking to an associate about placing slot machines in California or Texas given that the Ribera mafia already had machines in Montreal and of course New York City already had Sicilian-owned machines. Was he just throwing out random US states or are there Sicilian mafia contacts in those areas? The young Tommy Gambino's father is a Sicilian mafia member who was arrested last year with the boss of Torretta along with Tommy's cousin "Heavy" Tommy Gambino, a member of the Gambino family. Seems like Dimino's network could easily extend there given what we are currently seeing with NYC->Sicily.

^ If Accursio Dimino has the ability to contact Los Angeles, does that mean Tommy Gambino is a "gang boss" of a powerful mafia organization there? Certainly no, but he could simply be a rappresentante who serves as a point of contact. What we know is he's a mafia member with relatives in NYC and Sicily and part of the network.

I doubted Montagna had any pull to be behind Canada when things were going down in real time, boy was I fucking off. I admit it, I own it. I learned a lesson: be humble.

I've been wrong many times and will keep being wrong, but I'm going to let my ego speak up here: me and freakin' JoeyCigars were the only ones on the RealDeal telling people not to ignore Montagna's possible involvement in the Montreal conflict. I believed that Montagna, as a Bonanno leader, could pull the protocol card to try and influence Montreal and that's exactly what he did, though we can see that the functional side of Montreal responded in kind: a French-Canadian associate hired a guy named Simpson to kill a Bonanno acting boss. So it's never cut and dry and protocol certainly doesn't always win out in the face of operation/function.

And my buddy JoeyCigars and I just as well could have been wrong about Montagna -- we were only speculating, which is all we can do without definitive sources.

[Pogo The Clown]

From DiLeonardo's Q&A.

10. I'd love to know more about his dealings with Pete Milano and his general knowledge of the Los Angeles Family.

-First time I met Pete was without a proper CN introduction, when I was out in Cali, he wanted to meet me through a made guy that was with him whom I was not formally introduced to also. We were the next time he came to NY through Joe G. from the bronx, we had lunch with Milano, he expressed opening a door for them and us. Second time was a beef , Joe Isgro from Cali, a non member and Joe Armone's nephew, was told by Pete he had to pay protection to operate out there. I went out to Cali with Jack Damico, we had lunch with Pete, a captain with him and this made guy. Pete felt Cali was his and he wanted tribute, he had about 40k of Joe’s money through a business deal, I told Pete those days are over, he does not control the state, Pete paid 10k towards the money, I told Pete, Joe was proposed for membership and we were not going to be shaken down, we agreed Joe operates on his own and if they have deals they can do, fine. Joe was made, he is a great guy I was very close to Joe, later on Pete did not pay the balance, saying he was broke, I sent him some very insulting messages through his guy, this guy offered to pay it off saying he is embarrassed, I told him no thanks, it is worth the balance just insulting this bum, I then shut them out of any business dealing with Joe and us. Frank Valenti was being handled by Milano, Valenti said Pete was not treating him right, I asked how did you get with Pete, he said the commission put him with Pete being he was in Arizona. I liked Frank it made me enjoy more sending insults. I have another part to the story but may save that for a book, involve a huge female singer. Side note he knew of my grandfather and his relationship in the early days. I never asked who was my uncle godfather was that was killed, could be a Leonardo?

[Pogo The Clown]

Re: Lonardo

I'd have to see the exact context of Lonardo's statement about the organization being "destroyed",

From his senate testimony in 1988.


Senator Glenn: Do you believe the family is still operating in that area, in the Cleveland area?
Lonardo: The Cleveland family?
Senator Glenn: The LCN family.
Lonardo: There is no family there right now. It was destroyed.


Pogo

[B.]

Thanks, Pogo. Like with any high-ranking cooperator, I'm not in a position to argue with him, though we know they still had members at this time and likely had a small system of operation, as well as leadership after Lonardo's cooperation. Cleveland is not a family that I would argue maintained a significant position in the network and they certainly didn't try to maintain their own organization when it counted. They didn't induct any members under Scalish and didn't Fratianno say they forgot how to perform the induction ceremony when they did decide to induct new members under Licavoli?

That said, I don't know how the remaining members referred to themselves or whether or not they had continued recognition outside of Cleveland.

Re: CC's comment on Licavoli. I don't believe Licavoli's Terrasini heritage had anything directly to do with him becoming boss of Cleveland, only that his background with Detroit and the powerful Terrasini group likely gave him more stature in general when he was coming up in the mafia, which may have indirectly made him a more viable leader. Same with Brooklier and other leaders of Terrasini heritage. We know being from Terrasini gave someone increased status in Detroit and St. Louis where both men had roots and those cities, particularly Detroit, had influence over other cities.

Speaking of Domenico Violi in my earlier post, he has at least one uncle and other relatives still living near Cleveland. His grandfather (also named Domenico) couldn't enter Canada decades ago due to apparent underworld ties in Italy ('Ndrangheta?) and settled in the Cleveland area. Cleveland had a Calabrian population (which included the Milanos earlier on). Not suggesting there is anything more to it than that, just interesting.

[JCB1977]

The history of the Cleveland Family and their National prominence is pretty fascinating. When discussing Cleveland, it should be discussed for its deep rooted mafia history. Guys still operate there...no structured family. Case closed.

Check out this book: https://www.amazon.com/Rise-Fall-Clevel ... 1569802777

[JCB1977]

I have FBI reports on Charlie “Murgie” Imburgia, longtime Pittsburgh member and Consigliere by 1989, who resided in Warren,OH since the 1940’s and the go between for Cleveland and Pittsburgh. In the mid 1990’s, Imburgia was still delivering envelopes of 25% of the Youngstown gambling operations through Joe Perfette, Warren, OH major bookmaker and high ranking associate of Cleveland. Tronolone was boss Until 1991 because on many occasions, Imburgia would meet with Tronolone in the late 1980’s at Joe Sonken’s Gold Coast restaurant in South Florida. They also discussed a dispute that Pittsburgh was holding back revenue from Cleveland. FBI surveilled quite a few of those meetings between Imburgia and Tronolone. The Youngstown cut to Cleveland was still going to Perfette by 1995. Youngstown indicted 68 people in 1997, the entire hierarchy of the Youngstown faction plus politicians, prosecutors and judges. No cut was going to Cleveland at that time. Lenny Strollo was locked up and cooperating.

[Stroccos]

[/quote]

--

Other random thoughts about protocol:

- A few years ago, Buffalo underboss Domenico Violi told a cooperating Bonanno member that his boss Joe Todaro requested approval from NYC leaders to promote a Canadian member to underboss. This reminds me of Nicky Scarfo consulting NYC leaders about promoting his young nephew to underboss. In both cases, the boss was concerned that his preferred candidate for underboss was not qualified for the position based on age or location, but New York assured them that age and location did not matter and the candidates were both promoted. There was thirty years between these events but the message is clear: an underboss can be anyone who is a made member in a given family.

- So can a boss. While Cleveland may have had few candidates in the 1980s, John Tronolone was a strange candidate given he likely never lived in Cleveland. He was a former Buffalo figure who appears to have followed the DiCarlo-Pieri faction into the Cleveland family remotely, living in Florida for many decades. However, he was only a strange candidate if we look at him as a "gang boss" -- as a politician or union rep, he was perfect for the role.

- The Salerno Palma Boys tapes show that Tronolone as Cleveland boss became politically involved in internal disputes within the Buffalo and Philadelphia families in the early 1980s and met with the Commission regarding both issues. We know from historical sources that the role of a rappresentante is not simply to direct the affairs of his own family, but is often as much about national politics, even when a rappresentante is not on the Commission, so Tronolone's involvement with Buffalo and Philadelphia's internal conflicts is not surprising.

- Tronolone's location in Florida also gave him convenient access to national mafia figures, which would have been much more difficult if he was stuffed up in a Cleveland social club. We know that Joe Todaro Sr. similarly used Florida not only to run his own organization but to maintain his place in the national mafia network, and based on the Violi recording it appears Todaro Jr. is continuing this trend to some degree.

- I'm reminded too of Joe Bruno and Joe Ida in Philadelphia serving as consecutive bosses of Philadelphia from New Brunswick, NJ. This worked because they were political representatives located close to the mafia's political center in NYC/Newark, which was more important than being "gang bosses" in South Philly (think of capoprovincia who live in Palermo despite being from other provinces, i.e. Giuseppe Calderone, Salvatore Maranzano, etc.). Philadelphia having two bosses close to Newark for 20+ years makes Newark-based consigliere Caponigro less of an outlier and normalizes his attempt to become boss. In fact, Caponigro's proximity to NYC and close interactions with NYC/NJ leaders may have influenced him to make his move, while Phil Testa had few ties to NYC and required Nicky Scarfo to make contact with NYC leaders -- if it was about being a "gang boss" of Philly, Testa as underboss was the prime candidate no question, but Scarfo had the political ties and was NYC's preferred candidate and the reason Testa was able to get their support.

--

As for modern Cleveland, I have no clue nor the interest in giving an opinion on what is or isn't happening there. A few thoughts, though:

- I find it extremely unlikely that there is a "gang boss" overseeing a pyramid-shaped organization of any size in Cleveland. However, I wouldn't rule out that there is a union-esque representative there who other mafia organizations can contact as a matter of protocol. We have no way of knowing whether or not there is someone in this role (however limited it might be).

- It all comes down to whether the Gambino family reached out to someone when Carmine Agnello moved there. If no Cleveland members were contacted and no Cleveland members were upset about it, then that's a definitive answer on the existence of a Cleveland mafia family as far as I'm concerned. However, if a local Cleveland member was contacted about Agnello or if one wasn't contacted and someone in Cleveland felt disrespected, that indicates there is still a mafia representative in the area who understands time-honored mafia protocol.

[/quote]

well I know protocol was followed with agenllo himself not sure if the nyc group reached out, But angello was freinds with some cleveland guys from prison, angello informed them of his move and remains friends with the Cleveland guys, is there any truth to agnello being shelved ? people kinda admired Agnello in cleveland


the main reason tronolone was made boss so he could control jackie presser for tony salerno , when Cleveland needed to reach out to nyc they would go through peanuts tronolone , so he was in the new York loop , his close friendship with tony salerno made tronolone a valuable guy