"Patsy" (Donnie Brasco)

[CornerBoy]

When you exposed yourself as a fanboy who roots for the mob. Then you promptly crawled under a rock when everyone pointed out what a moron you are. Now do us all a favor and crawl back under your rock and stop distrusting threads with your inane bullshit posts. I'm done with you.


1. i don't root for the mob. crawl under a rock? i can't sit on here typing back to you all day. I work all the time and have ACTUAL HUMANS in my life.

2. maybe ill crawl under a rock and watch all the Sopranos epidsodes like you do. YOU derail the good threads by adding in soprano's quotes that i had to google a few times but now just assume your remarks are all sopranos lines.

[CornerBoy]

hi sonny boy- rack? that discussion about resumes is not appropriate.

i have been talking to B and CC for almost 20 years having them impart so much knowledge to me. I've garnered a ton of info from those Two and a few others. They do real research like lcn bio's and Hairly Knuckles that is great. This is the computer you idiot. Friends with?

Far from angry, Sonny. All cool here. i harbor no animosity, especially over the fucking mafia.

PEace and love to all

[SonnyBlackstein]

PEace and love to all

Good post sir.

Lets leave it at that. We can all contribute without being at each others throats. Lets do that and move on.

Cheers CB.

[SonnyBlackstein]

I memorize names like a child too.

Pipe Down!

[CornerBoy]

i was directing that to the clown but i hear you, Sonny!

Have a great wkend Sonny.

[SonnyBlackstein]

Have a great wkend Sonny.

You too CB.

[Makelaiusiwk]

Probaly a nickname

[The Greek]

According to this OC Shortz video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxK1fJnPIKc

Patsy was Pasquale Senatore, and Frankie was Frank "Beans" Gugliemeli who went as Frankie Meli also.

[John W]

According to this OC Shortz video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxK1fJnPIKc

Patsy was Pasquale Senatore, and Frankie was Frank "Beans" Gugliemeli who went as Frankie Meli also.

In the video he says Carmine Tutti Franzese is Sonny Franzese's nephew, I thought he was his brother?

[axx]

According to this OC Shortz video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxK1fJnPIKc

Patsy was Pasquale Senatore, and Frankie was Frank "Beans" Gugliemeli who went as Frankie Meli also.

Also, someone posted this on reddit mafia:

NY Daily News (April 10, 1988 - Jerry Capeci) - Greca was part of a 4-man hit team that killed Frank Morici in 1978. Morici informed on Philip Paradiso in a burglary case. Paradiso is the younger brother of Gambino Soldier Mickey Boy Paradiso. One member of the hit team, Pasquale Senatore became a cooperator with the Brooklyn D.A.'s office. Greca was killed a few months later.

[The Greek]

According to this OC Shortz video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxK1fJnPIKc

Patsy was Pasquale Senatore, and Frankie was Frank "Beans" Gugliemeli who went as Frankie Meli also.

In the video he says Carmine Tutti Franzese is Sonny Franzese's nephew, I thought he was his brother?

Found this on another site from Vacari who I think is or was a poster on here:

"Tutti" Franzese Jr. is actually Carmine Franzese III, he is a grandson of Carmine "Tutti the Lion" Franzese Snr and son of Carmine Franzese Jnr. I thought he was Louis son but no. The lion had six sons with John Franzese being the last one born. There are a lot of Carmine Franzese during the 70's and 80's. Tutti the Lion passed away sometime in the late 1950's or early 1960's.
Posted By: Moe_Tilden

[PolackTony]

According to this OC Shortz video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxK1fJnPIKc

Patsy was Pasquale Senatore, and Frankie was Frank "Beans" Gugliemeli who went as Frankie Meli also.

In the video he says Carmine Tutti Franzese is Sonny Franzese's nephew, I thought he was his brother?

There has been a lot of confusion on this, as some people in the past claimed that he was Sonny's brother, and some that he was even Sonny's son, and thus one of Michael Franzese's half-brothers. Carmine Salvatore "Tutti" Franzese was in fact Sonny Franzese's nephew, born in Brooklyn in 1932 to Michele "Michael" Franzese and Grace Cosgrove; Tutti Franzese died of cancer in December of 1990, at which time he was living in North Tarrytown (Sleepy Hollow). It was, however, reported erroneously in the papers that Tutti Franzese was Sonny Franzese's "brother" when Tutti was pinched in 1971 for extorting Mobil Oil with Lazzaro San Giovanni and Modesto Santoro.

Per my info, Michele Franzese was born in Brooklyn in 1908 to Maria Romano of Saviano and Carmine Salvatore "the Lion" Francese (the original spelling of the surname, of course), of the neighboring comune of Palma Campania (the towns were part of the old Terra Di Lavoro province until 1927, and border the longtime Camorra hotbeds of Nola, Scisciano [hometown of the Ebolis], Ottaviano [hometown of Paul Ricca and Raffaele Cutolo], and Sarno, Salerno [hometown of a number of members of the Genovese and other NY Families]). The Franzeses had moved back and forth several times between Italy and Brooklyn since the 1890s, with eldest brother Onofrio "Nufrio" Franzese born in Brooklyn in 1904 and youngest brother Giovanni "Sonny" Franzese born in Saviano in December of 1918. In 1920, Maria Romano moved back to Brooklyn to rejoin Carmine with their children permanently, giving Carmine's address at that time as 9 Withers St, by N 9th St and Union Ave in Northside Williamsburg near McCarren Park. Carmine "The Lion" was apparently a significant Camorra leader in Northern Brooklyn who seems to have remained formally independent of the mafia, traveling repeatedly back and forth to Italy until his death in Brooklyn in 1957.

Michele Franzese married Grace Sarah Cosgrove in Brooklyn in 1931. Per my info, she was born in 1914 in Brooklyn to Thomas Cosgrove, born in Quebec to Irish and Quebecois parents, and Julia Bender, born in Queens to Irish or Anglo-American parents. Thus, Tutti was only half-Italian. Per JD, Tutti Franzese was an associate under Joey Brancato, then acting captain of Sonny Franzese's crew. He was sponsored for membership by Brancato and made in February of 1976 in the first Colombo ceremony following the reopening of the books for the NYC Families. In 1980, he was listed as a soldier alongside his cousin Michael in the Franceze crew.

Found this on another site from Vacari who I think is or was a poster on here:

"Tutti" Franzese Jr. is actually Carmine Franzese III, he is a grandson of Carmine "Tutti the Lion" Franzese Snr and son of Carmine Franzese Jnr. I thought he was Louis son but no. The lion had six sons with John Franzese being the last one born. There are a lot of Carmine Franzese during the 70's and 80's. Tutti the Lion passed away sometime in the late 1950's or early 1960's.
Posted By: Moe_Tilden

"Vacari's" information is wrong; or, more accurately, and as is often the case, a mix of factual information and error. Carmine Salvatore Francese and Maria Romano had 10 children in total: 6 daughters and four sons (none of whom were named Carmine Jr). In order of birth, they were:

Filomena "Millie"
Onofrio "Nufrio"
Anna
Michele "Michael"
Giuseppina "Josephine"
Luigi "Louis"
Giovanni "John"
Rosina "Rose
Gilda "Hilda"
Felicia

[johnny_scootch]

There has been a lot of confusion on this, as some people in the past claimed that he was Sonny's brother, and some that he was even Sonny's son, and thus one of Michael Franzese's half-brothers. Carmine Salvatore "Tutti" Franzese was in fact Sonny Franzese's nephew, born in Brooklyn in 1932 to Michele "Michael" Franzese and Grace Cosgrove; Tutti Franzese died of cancer in December of 1990, at which time he was living in North Tarrytown (Sleepy Hollow). It was, however, reported erroneously in the papers that Tutti Franzese was Sonny Franzese's "brother" when Tutti was pinched in 1971 for extorting Mobil Oil with Lazzaro San Giovanni and Modesto Santoro.

Per my info, Michele Franzese was born in Brooklyn in 1908 to Maria Romano of Saviano and Carmine Salvatore "the Lion" Francese (the original spelling of the surname, of course), of the neighboring comune of Palma Campania (the towns were part of the old Terra Di Lavoro province until 1927, and border the longtime Camorra hotbeds of Nola, Scisciano [hometown of the Ebolis], Ottaviano [hometown of Paul Ricca and Raffaele Cutolo], and Sarno, Salerno [hometown of a number of members of the Genovese and other NY Families]). The Franzeses had moved back and forth several times between Italy and Brooklyn since the 1890s, with eldest brother Onofrio "Nufrio" Franzese born in Brooklyn in 1904 and youngest brother Giovanni "Sonny" Franzese born in Saviano in December of 1918. In 1920, Maria Romano moved back to Brooklyn to rejoin Carmine with their children permanently, giving Carmine's address at that time as 9 Withers St, by N 9th St and Union Ave in Northside Williamsburg near McCarren Park. Carmine "The Lion" was apparently a significant Camorra leader in Northern Brooklyn who seems to have remained formally independent of the mafia, traveling repeatedly back and forth to Italy until his death in Brooklyn in 1957.

Michele Franzese married Grace Sarah Cosgrove in Brooklyn in 1931. Per my info, she was born in 1914 in Brooklyn to Thomas Cosgrove, born in Quebec to Irish and Quebecois parents, and Julia Bender, born in Queens to Irish or Anglo-American parents. Thus, Tutti was only half-Italian. Per JD, Tutti Franzese was an associate under Joey Brancato, then acting captain of Sonny Franzese's crew. He was sponsored for membership by Brancato and made in February of 1976 in the first Colombo ceremony following the reopening of the books for the NYC Families. In 1980, he was listed as a soldier alongside his cousin Michael in the Franceze crew.

Found this on another site from Vacari who I think is or was a poster on here:

"Tutti" Franzese Jr. is actually Carmine Franzese III, he is a grandson of Carmine "Tutti the Lion" Franzese Snr and son of Carmine Franzese Jnr. I thought he was Louis son but no. The lion had six sons with John Franzese being the last one born. There are a lot of Carmine Franzese during the 70's and 80's. Tutti the Lion passed away sometime in the late 1950's or early 1960's.
Posted By: Moe_Tilden

"Vacari's" information is wrong; or, more accurately, and as is often the case, a mix of factual information and error. Carmine Salvatore Francese and Maria Romano had 10 children in total: 6 daughters and four sons (none of whom were named Carmine Jr). In order of birth, they were:

Filomena "Millie"
Onofrio "Nufrio"
Anna
Michele "Michael"
Giuseppina "Josephine"
Luigi "Louis"
Giovanni "John"
Rosina "Rose
Gilda "Hilda"
Felicia

You knocked this post out of the damn park.
A Salute!

[The Greek]

According to this OC Shortz video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxK1fJnPIKc

Patsy was Pasquale Senatore, and Frankie was Frank "Beans" Gugliemeli who went as Frankie Meli also.

In the video he says Carmine Tutti Franzese is Sonny Franzese's nephew, I thought he was his brother?

There has been a lot of confusion on this, as some people in the past claimed that he was Sonny's brother, and some that he was even Sonny's son, and thus one of Michael Franzese's half-brothers. Carmine Salvatore "Tutti" Franzese was in fact Sonny Franzese's nephew, born in Brooklyn in 1932 to Michele "Michael" Franzese and Grace Cosgrove; Tutti Franzese died of cancer in December of 1990, at which time he was living in North Tarrytown (Sleepy Hollow). It was, however, reported erroneously in the papers that Tutti Franzese was Sonny Franzese's "brother" when Tutti was pinched in 1971 for extorting Mobil Oil with Lazzaro San Giovanni and Modesto Santoro.

Per my info, Michele Franzese was born in Brooklyn in 1908 to Maria Romano of Saviano and Carmine Salvatore "the Lion" Francese (the original spelling of the surname, of course), of the neighboring comune of Palma Campania (the towns were part of the old Terra Di Lavoro province until 1927, and border the longtime Camorra hotbeds of Nola, Scisciano [hometown of the Ebolis], Ottaviano [hometown of Paul Ricca and Raffaele Cutolo], and Sarno, Salerno [hometown of a number of members of the Genovese and other NY Families]). The Franzeses had moved back and forth several times between Italy and Brooklyn since the 1890s, with eldest brother Onofrio "Nufrio" Franzese born in Brooklyn in 1904 and youngest brother Giovanni "Sonny" Franzese born in Saviano in December of 1918. In 1920, Maria Romano moved back to Brooklyn to rejoin Carmine with their children permanently, giving Carmine's address at that time as 9 Withers St, by N 9th St and Union Ave in Northside Williamsburg near McCarren Park. Carmine "The Lion" was apparently a significant Camorra leader in Northern Brooklyn who seems to have remained formally independent of the mafia, traveling repeatedly back and forth to Italy until his death in Brooklyn in 1957.

Michele Franzese married Grace Sarah Cosgrove in Brooklyn in 1931. Per my info, she was born in 1914 in Brooklyn to Thomas Cosgrove, born in Quebec to Irish and Quebecois parents, and Julia Bender, born in Queens to Irish or Anglo-American parents. Thus, Tutti was only half-Italian. Per JD, Tutti Franzese was an associate under Joey Brancato, then acting captain of Sonny Franzese's crew. He was sponsored for membership by Brancato and made in February of 1976 in the first Colombo ceremony following the reopening of the books for the NYC Families. In 1980, he was listed as a soldier alongside his cousin Michael in the Franceze crew.

Found this on another site from Vacari who I think is or was a poster on here:

"Tutti" Franzese Jr. is actually Carmine Franzese III, he is a grandson of Carmine "Tutti the Lion" Franzese Snr and son of Carmine Franzese Jnr. I thought he was Louis son but no. The lion had six sons with John Franzese being the last one born. There are a lot of Carmine Franzese during the 70's and 80's. Tutti the Lion passed away sometime in the late 1950's or early 1960's.
Posted By: Moe_Tilden

"Vacari's" information is wrong; or, more accurately, and as is often the case, a mix of factual information and error. Carmine Salvatore Francese and Maria Romano had 10 children in total: 6 daughters and four sons (none of whom were named Carmine Jr). In order of birth, they were:

Filomena "Millie"
Onofrio "Nufrio"
Anna
Michele "Michael"
Giuseppina "Josephine"
Luigi "Louis"
Giovanni "John"
Rosina "Rose
Gilda "Hilda"
Felicia

Great info thanks Tony!

[B.]

Ralph Salerno of the NYPD published that Sonny Franzese was the "son of a member" but Michael Franzese said his grandfather was never made though he was shown respect and visited by people like Charlie Luciano. Michael is a solid authority on whether the grandfather was made into Cosa Nostra but it looks to me like he was more than associate, in a sense.

One informant said Carmine Franzese had been an underworld "don". He also associated with Antonio Paretti, making him a likely Camorrista. He can be circumstantially linked to Vito Genovese, another Paretti associate. Paretti was convicted of killing Nick Terranova and Eugene Umbriaco so Franzese could have been part of this early "anti-mafia" effort which resulted in him not being made but Genovese allegedly joined the mafia in 1923 according to DeCarlo (though the induction may have been unsanctioned initially) so associating with Paretti didn't stop someone from becoming a Cosa Nostra member. I also question whether the "mafia-camorra" war was as black and white as it's made out to be, as you had a Neapolitan killing a Sicilian and Calabrian, but one of the top associates / members of the latter's faction was Neapolitan Joe Viserti who was probably a Camorrista made into the Morello Family.

Franzese was significantly older and likely more "old minded" than guys like Vito Genovese, bouncing between Italy and the US during crucial years, so I could understand him not becoming a member. We do know guys like Richie Boiardo (around a decade younger than Franzese) resisted the mafia into the 1930s too and wasn't made until 1943. Franzese though was in the good graces of the mafia and particularly the Genovese Family by the 1930s so member or not he was probably "with" Cosa Nostra by then. Question is which Family, Genovese or Colombo?

Sonny's older brother Onofrio was described as the original underworld heir of their father and an extremely tough individual. Raises many questions about him too, i.e. whether he was a mafia member or associate and if so with which Family. He was already coming of age in Italy when Sonny was born.