Where’s Philly’s indictment?

[Fughedaboutit]

There was an early informant who had been an LE officer in Italy and was proposed for membership in Philly but knocked down, presumably in part because of his LE background. We know about the rule, but we also know these things are overlooked and while they might have been vigilant about an LE background in the 1940s/50s, it was much different in the 1990s.

Consider too that Philadelphia always supposedly had the "100% Italian" rule in place, but in the 1980s Scarfo inducted a half-Polish member and promoted him to captain, making him one of the defacto leaders of the family. Tommy Delgiorno grew up in the neighborhood and photos alone of his mother make it clear she wasn't Italian. Examples like this are why I made that thread years ago asking what background research the mafia actually does into their proposed members. Here, at the height of Scarfo's power they didn't even bother to go down the street and glance at a proposed member's parents. What mattered at the time was that Delgiorno was a major bookmaker willing to do what Scarfo asked. Similarly, it's believable that Stanfa and his people did little to no background research into Previte, or if they did find an LE background, it was glossed over given the state of the organization.

I haven't seen any info that outright conflicts with Previte's account and given the situation in Philadephia during the Stanfa and Natale regimes where guys like Veasey were brought in and fringe associates were immediately promoted to leadership positions after being made, I can easily believe Previte became recognized as a member under Stanfa and was at some point given the captain title, even if it was virtually meaningless. Previte at least was Sicilian.

In one of the documentaries where Previte is interviewed, he appears to be hanging out with several members of his old crew, so there doesn't appear to be bad blood about his cooperation. Either he had some sort of agreement ala Gravano not to cooperate on his crew, otherwise chose not to target them, or they weren't terribly active. My impression of Previte's crew is it was/is basically a group of fat guys with no ethics who like hanging out together.

Does anyone have Natale's testimony on Previte's status? Stroccos has access to the court documents, so maybe it's in there or maybe LCNBios will eventually do another pull from Natale's 302s that includes details on Previte. To me, Previte's status says more about the Stanfa and Natale regimes than it does anything else and Previte is not out of place in the context of the organization during that time.

i dont have any of the cout documents from natale , very few on previte , when i get some free time maybe i will inquire into gettin the full transcripts for previte and natales testimony

That would be interesting stuff regardless of this argument on his made status. I dont think it is as cut and dry as you say though, imo

[Mason_dixon]

At the end of the day what difference does it make? Money is the bottom line. We will never know for sure so why keep beating a dead horse? Makes no sense.

[Fughedaboutit]

At the end of the day what difference does it make? Money is the bottom line. We will never know for sure so why keep beating a dead horse? Makes no sense.

Because it is an interesting debate and point of contention? Your post makes less sense than our debates, so why even comment?

[Stroccos]

There was an early informant who had been an LE officer in Italy and was proposed for membership in Philly but knocked down, presumably in part because of his LE background. We know about the rule, but we also know these things are overlooked and while they might have been vigilant about an LE background in the 1940s/50s, it was much different in the 1990s.

Consider too that Philadelphia always supposedly had the "100% Italian" rule in place, but in the 1980s Scarfo inducted a half-Polish member and promoted him to captain, making him one of the defacto leaders of the family. Tommy Delgiorno grew up in the neighborhood and photos alone of his mother make it clear she wasn't Italian. Examples like this are why I made that thread years ago asking what background research the mafia actually does into their proposed members. Here, at the height of Scarfo's power they didn't even bother to go down the street and glance at a proposed member's parents. What mattered at the time was that Delgiorno was a major bookmaker willing to do what Scarfo asked. Similarly, it's believable that Stanfa and his people did little to no background research into Previte, or if they did find an LE background, it was glossed over given the state of the organization.

I haven't seen any info that outright conflicts with Previte's account and given the situation in Philadephia during the Stanfa and Natale regimes where guys like Veasey were brought in and fringe associates were immediately promoted to leadership positions after being made, I can easily believe Previte became recognized as a member under Stanfa and was at some point given the captain title, even if it was virtually meaningless. Previte at least was Sicilian.

In one of the documentaries where Previte is interviewed, he appears to be hanging out with several members of his old crew, so there doesn't appear to be bad blood about his cooperation. Either he had some sort of agreement ala Gravano not to cooperate on his crew, otherwise chose not to target them, or they weren't terribly active. My impression of Previte's crew is it was/is basically a group of fat guys with no ethics who like hanging out together.

Does anyone have Natale's testimony on Previte's status? Stroccos has access to the court documents, so maybe it's in there or maybe LCNBios will eventually do another pull from Natale's 302s that includes details on Previte. To me, Previte's status says more about the Stanfa and Natale regimes than it does anything else and Previte is not out of place in the context of the organization during that time.

i dont have any of the cout documents from natale , very few on previte , when i get some free time maybe i will inquire into gettin the full transcripts for previte and natales testimony

That would be interesting stuff regardless of this argument on his made status. I dont think it is as cut and dry as you say though, imo

i am not saying anything , the wire taps speak for them selfs , its atually very clear and imo no longer a debate

[Stroccos]

At the end of the day what difference does it make? Money is the bottom line. We will never know for sure so why keep beating a dead horse? Makes no sense.

Because it is an interesting debate and point of contention? Your post makes less sense than our debates, so why even comment?

isn't that's the whole point of this board ?

[Fughedaboutit]

There was an early informant who had been an LE officer in Italy and was proposed for membership in Philly but knocked down, presumably in part because of his LE background. We know about the rule, but we also know these things are overlooked and while they might have been vigilant about an LE background in the 1940s/50s, it was much different in the 1990s.

Consider too that Philadelphia always supposedly had the "100% Italian" rule in place, but in the 1980s Scarfo inducted a half-Polish member and promoted him to captain, making him one of the defacto leaders of the family. Tommy Delgiorno grew up in the neighborhood and photos alone of his mother make it clear she wasn't Italian. Examples like this are why I made that thread years ago asking what background research the mafia actually does into their proposed members. Here, at the height of Scarfo's power they didn't even bother to go down the street and glance at a proposed member's parents. What mattered at the time was that Delgiorno was a major bookmaker willing to do what Scarfo asked. Similarly, it's believable that Stanfa and his people did little to no background research into Previte, or if they did find an LE background, it was glossed over given the state of the organization.

I haven't seen any info that outright conflicts with Previte's account and given the situation in Philadephia during the Stanfa and Natale regimes where guys like Veasey were brought in and fringe associates were immediately promoted to leadership positions after being made, I can easily believe Previte became recognized as a member under Stanfa and was at some point given the captain title, even if it was virtually meaningless. Previte at least was Sicilian.

In one of the documentaries where Previte is interviewed, he appears to be hanging out with several members of his old crew, so there doesn't appear to be bad blood about his cooperation. Either he had some sort of agreement ala Gravano not to cooperate on his crew, otherwise chose not to target them, or they weren't terribly active. My impression of Previte's crew is it was/is basically a group of fat guys with no ethics who like hanging out together.

Does anyone have Natale's testimony on Previte's status? Stroccos has access to the court documents, so maybe it's in there or maybe LCNBios will eventually do another pull from Natale's 302s that includes details on Previte. To me, Previte's status says more about the Stanfa and Natale regimes than it does anything else and Previte is not out of place in the context of the organization during that time.

i dont have any of the cout documents from natale , very few on previte , when i get some free time maybe i will inquire into gettin the full transcripts for previte and natales testimony

That would be interesting stuff regardless of this argument on his made status. I dont think it is as cut and dry as you say though, imo

i am not saying anything , the wire taps speak for them selfs , its atually very clear and imo no longer a debate

Either way, let me know if you do get a hold of any of those documents. Thanks

[dack2001]

Two different points getting made here, whether he was actually made or whether he was treated as made by the guys downtown because either they didn't know any better or they wanted his money or both......assuming the docs say what's contended, I'd say he was treated by those that counted as a made guy. Whether he was actually made or whether they were stroking him to get his money is a whole different point but that's the point of a forum, in order to try and flesh out these issues. Saying stuff is settled because its on a chart or facts because two guys in a circle jerk agree with each other is really fox news level stuff and should be avoided.

[Stroccos]

Two different points getting made here, whether he was actually made or whether he was treated as made by the guys downtown because either they didn't know any better or they wanted his money or both......assuming the docs say what's contended, I'd say he was treated by those that counted as a made guy. Whether he was actually made or whether they were stroking him to get his money is a whole different point but that's the point of a forum, in order to try and flesh out these issues. Saying stuff is settled because its on a chart or facts because two guys in a circle jerk agree with each other is really fox news level stuff and should be avoided.

The sky is blue

[Confederate]

Whether he was actually made or whether they were stroking him to get his money is a whole different point but that's the point of a forum, in order to try and flesh out these issues.

Previte would have had to kick up something anyway whether he was made or not made. They didn't have to "pretend" he was made in order to get a cut of his money. lol

[chin_gigante]

I found this comment from Soliai on the DiLeonardo Q&A thread regarding New York deciding whether to acknowledge Philadelphia:

So I talked to Michael today and asked him about this and he told me he was referring to Philly. Sr. told everyone in the Gambinos to stay away and avoid everyone from Philly and that they no longer recognized anyone from Philly. Michael said this was during the time of Stanfa and with Philly supposedly making an ex cop and everything else that was going on with Philly during Stanfa time as boss.......Soliai

[dack2001]

That's rich coming from Gotti, considering he was the main one responsible for putting Stanfa there is the first place.

[Fughedaboutit]

That's rich coming from Gotti, considering he was the main one responsible for putting Stanfa there is the first place.

[Philly d]

Anything's possible. The sun might not come up tomorrow. That's possible. But the odds that Dom was secretly arrested, with all the heat on him, struck a deal and was secretly discharged right back onto the streets wearing a wire without anyone noticing is almost as unlikely that Dom walked in off the street and offered himself up.....both scenarios are extremely unlikely....rank speculation without anything but someone sitting behind a fucking computer screen is irresponsible, imo.

Well said!

[ShotgunTheRifle]

Dave Schratweiser reported a philly wise guy and former associate got a visit from feds and were urged to cooperate.

[Fughedaboutit]

Dave Schratweiser reported a philly wise guy and former associate got a visit from feds and were urged to cooperate.

If that is true he did not cooperate. Why else would he know about it and be reporting other than to tickle the wire?