chubby wrote: ↑Mon Jan 14, 2019 3:22 pmmr. tommasi.... he lived in the rich gated neighborhood close to my house and his daughter was a grade below me in high school and one time she was having people over and we showed up and he fucking answered the door in his straight white butt hugger underwear drunk out of his fucking mind and at least an 8 ball of coke down. Next thing I know he’s got this fucking like 8 foot brave heart sword standing on the porch in his underwear.. he said none of us could enter until he knighted us.. so we had to each get on one knee and let this nut job Knight us. Then someone asked him to see like this 300,000$ muscle car he just finished restoring and he leaned the sword against the wall on the porch and it slid and hit the ground and fucking broke... he screamed at the top of his lungs and thought we broke his shit and he chased us in his underwear for like 2 miles ... hahaha love that guy.
Wiseguy wrote: ↑Mon Jan 14, 2019 8:02 pm
You and others here can spin it all you want but that's the truth. And it's likely because I have a better understanding of history, the legal system, morality, and the hereafter that I see things the way they really are.
dack2001 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 15, 2019 10:17 am
Both you and Pogo have a staggeringly poor understanding of the history and past and current role of the legal system in our democracy and a perverse interpretation of justice. We've had this discussion before though, neither of you are worth the time on this topic.
Again that is rich coming from the guy who thinks mass murderers like Carmine Persico, Vinny Basciano and Joey Merlino are persecuted victims who should be walking the streets. And yeah I'm sure the perverse joke the Amurrican judicial system is circa 2019 is what the founding fathers envisioned when they set up the system.
Pogo
It's a new morning in America... fresh, vital. The old cynicism is gone. We have faith in our leaders. We're optimistic as to what becomes of it all. It really boils down to our ability to accept. We don't need pessimism. There are no limits.
newera_212 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 14, 2019 7:19 pm
also LOL at the premise of criminal defense lawyers going to hell. jesus christ. lmao. if saint peter is turning defense lawyers down, i can only imagine who else is not getting in. might as well throw self aggrandizing DAs, Judges, and the prison contractors who make millions chiseling the families of inmates out of money for phone calls, books, toiletries, etc... half of the entire american criminal justice industry should be on line for Hell right behind the lawyers
DAs, judges and defense attorneys are all part of the same criminal gang.
Pogo
as omar in the wire would say "i got the shotgun, you got a briefcase"
That was indeed a great line. Both making money on human misery though the way Omar went about it was more respectable. Levy on The Wire was one of the most accurate depictions of a defense attorney ever in cinema.
Pogo
It's a new morning in America... fresh, vital. The old cynicism is gone. We have faith in our leaders. We're optimistic as to what becomes of it all. It really boils down to our ability to accept. We don't need pessimism. There are no limits.
Wiseguy wrote: ↑Mon Jan 14, 2019 8:02 pm
First, people always say that when this subject comes up but I have never needed a defense attorney and, in all likelihood, never will. Some of us actually follow the law.
So no one's ever been wrongly charged with a crime?
Or do we put those that are, down to 'collateral damage' or the 'cost of doing business'.
And what are your morals on that?
Sure, people have been wrongly charged. And as I said, if defense attorneys only picked clients they truly knew (or believed) were innocent, that would be different.
And the obvious answer is, what if 'your lawyer' didn't believe your innocence? What then?
But their job isn't to defend people who are innocent.
It is to provide legal defense and guidance to those unversed in the law.
So for example: Someone who they know, who are, admittedly guilty, to explain their legal options and their respective consequences clearly.
To rephrase;
Do people who are not of sufficient moral 'character' deserve to have a surgeon operate on them if they get cancer?
And who decides if they're of 'good' moral caliber?
You?
What if someone decides you're not of sufficient moral standing?
These are the problems when we leave the subjective questions of moral 'good' and 'right' to interpretation and to individual judgement.
Everybody deserves the right to their respective best defense. Pointing out the errors in the system isn't saying the system in itself is in error, its simply saying its imperfect. And until you present a replacement which is itself, perfect, or which offers less margin for error, moral or otherwise, then I don't see a preferred option.
Good points Sonny. Your positive points refer mainly to "Public Defenders" who the Court assigns to a Defendant who cannot hire an Attorney in order to explain the law and the defendant's options. I think Wiseguy is mainly talking about a guy like Johnny Cochran who obviously knew the true story about O.J. Simpson's murders and how it actually happened so he could cause reasonable doubt with the Jury and have his Client go free for a lot of money.
I have to agree that there really is a warm seat in Hell for guys like Cochran.
Pogo The Clown wrote: ↑Tue Jan 15, 2019 12:53 pm
That was indeed a great line. Both making money on human misery though the way Omar went about it was more respectable. Levy on The Wire was one of the most accurate depictions of a defense attorney ever in cinema.
Pogo
Absolutely. Levy knew exactly who his clients in the Barksdale and Stansfield organizations were - drug dealers and murderers. And he couldn't have cared less. It was all about the money to him. Classic criminal defense attorney.
Confederate wrote:Good points Sonny. Your positive points refer mainly to "Public Defenders" who the Court assigns to a Defendant who cannot hire an Attorney in order to explain the law and the defendant's options. I think Wiseguy is mainly talking about a guy like Johnny Cochran who obviously knew the true story about O.J. Simpson's murders and how it actually happened so he could cause reasonable doubt with the Jury and have his Client go free for a lot of money.
Even public defenders could have chosen another route.
And, yes, guys like Shapiro, Cochran, and Bailey all saw the evidence and knew Simpson was guilty of those murders. But that was totally beside the point for them.
Wiseguy wrote: ↑Mon Jan 14, 2019 8:02 pm
First, people always say that when this subject comes up but I have never needed a defense attorney and, in all likelihood, never will. Some of us actually follow the law.
So no one's ever been wrongly charged with a crime?
Or do we put those that are, down to 'collateral damage' or the 'cost of doing business'.
And what are your morals on that?
Sure, people have been wrongly charged. And as I said, if defense attorneys only picked clients they truly knew (or believed) were innocent, that would be different.
What a pompous post lol.
If there was an easy way to "truly know" someone's innocence or guilt we wouldn't need trials and could just throw people in prison on a whim. Sounds like a dictatorship to me.
"Better understanding of morality and the afterlife"... get over yourself.
"Truly know" lmao, like the lawyer is miss Cleo, wtf
"I wanna hear some noise." "Tell Salvie to clean the boat, the whole boat top to bottom" -Nicodemo "Nicky" Scarfo Sr"
Maybe they should just lock Wiseguy in a room with everyone charged with a crime and then he could not only tell us whether or not they are guilty, but also whether or not they are going to hell.
Snakes wrote: ↑Tue Jan 15, 2019 6:05 pm
Maybe they should just lock Wiseguy in a room with everyone charged with a crime and then he could not only tell us whether or not they are guilty, but also whether or not they are going to hell.
Snakes wrote: ↑Tue Jan 15, 2019 6:05 pm
Maybe they should just lock Wiseguy in a room with everyone charged with a crime and then he could not only tell us whether or not they are guilty, but also whether or not they are going to hell.
Snakes wrote: ↑Tue Jan 15, 2019 6:05 pm
Maybe they should just lock Wiseguy in a room with everyone charged with a crime and then he could not only tell us whether or not they are guilty, but also whether or not they are going to hell.
Now there's an idea.
Lol, at least you took it in good stride.
He'll be proven right like always through suicide by guilty criminals.
Then it remains to be seen whether he'll go to heaven. Even in a discussion with the allmighty himself Wiseguy would probably want to have the last say. [emoji38]
Give me a break, I never said anything of the sort. I simply want the justice system to work fairly for them, just like I would for you or anyone else. Keeping someone in prison for crimes they haven't been convicted of is unfair whether its you or Wiseguy or anyone. Injustice for one is injustice for all is about the clearest way to explain it. Not the first time I've explained this either.
Actually that was exactly what you were saying. How Persico and Basciano were unjustly treated and convicted of crimes they didn't commit. How it was an injustice. So if they were unjustly convicted for crimes they didn't commit as you said then by implication you are saying they should be released from prison. And since they spent so many years in prison for crimes they didn't commit then they would be owed millions of dollars in compensation by the government (tax payers). Wouldn't that be a real kicker?
Pogo
It's a new morning in America... fresh, vital. The old cynicism is gone. We have faith in our leaders. We're optimistic as to what becomes of it all. It really boils down to our ability to accept. We don't need pessimism. There are no limits.
