General Mob Questions

[TallGuy19]

gotti said joe butch called sammy a rat,?

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William Peist being the cop in question

Did they have a listening device in their cell, or is this second-hand information?

[TallGuy19]

Does anyone know where the Frank Mari became boss briefly before his disappearance in 1969 originally comes from? I'm reading the Anthony Destefano - Joe Massino book right now and he mentions it. I know that book will have mistakes especially on stuff before Massino became a power but it's also on Chris Christie's Lineage Chart (as a possibility i believe) so i assume it came from somewhere credible although not conclusive.

It also says this: "The Bonanno family could have lurched into another period of disarray, but the Commission took the unusual step after Mari’s disappearance of appointing a triumvirate to rule the family, at least temporarily. The three leaders who were to work as a team were Natale Evola, who had weathered a narcotics conviction to maintain his power in the garment trucking industry, an obscure crime captain named Joseph DiFilippi, and the none-too-flashy Philip Rastelli."

That's not on the chart, DiFillippi is instead mentioned as Consiglieri around this time and Evola is Acting Boss before becoming the official boss in 1971. Is that because this is known to be untrue? Just wondering why the Mari as Boss possibility was included but not that as i figured they'd have came from the same source, unless he just completely made that part up. I'm not really familiar with this author but i've seen members here recommend his books and have never heard him spoke of as a Phillip Carlo type so i wouldn't think he'd just make it up, rather more information has come out since disproving it or whatever.

Sorry i'm sure this has all been explained somewhere i've just always wondered about Mari possibly being boss as i never heard about it until the chart (which is excellent as they all are) and that passage reminded me to ask.

It originally comes from annual FBI reports. And this specific information, on Mari being boss, comes from a report dated November 1969.

In March 1969, informants advised the FBI that Sciacca had been a disappointment as boss, That he lacked leadership abilities. In September of 1969, informants advised that Frank Mari is the new boss and that the Commission had approved his elevation. He had also been given a seat on the Commission, something DiGregorio and Sciacca earlier were never given. Philip Rastelli became underboss and Mike Adsamo the consigliere.

While researching, I have never come across any info saying Sciacca retook control of the Family after Mari´s disappearing, which I believe I read in a post on here. Neither have I found anything that backs up DeStefano´s claim of a three man ruling panel. I have no idea why the author decided to put that in his book. Evola, for example, was held in contempt and was scheduled for sentecing around this time, so it sounds unlikely that he was part of some ruling panel created by the Family.

I don´t hold DeStefano as an author in high regards. His book on Vinny Basciano for example was a big disapointment and his books on Massino was very poor researched. He went for what was available in the press only and did not dig any deeper. The books are sloppy ones, written hastily and published too fast.

Thanks a lot HK, yeah i think i agree with you on DeStefano. I've just owned that book for years, haven't heard anything bad about it (before now) and wanted to brush up on the Bonanno's after reading a few threads here so thought i may as well get to it.

Yeah, a poster on the last page (which i'm guessing he read elsewhere as his info has been solid in other topics) said Sciacca took back over because Mari "ousted him". I don't think that was the case because of that marriage i think it's more likely Sciacca supported Mari as his replacement if he was ever even boss. Although, did the Bonanno''s keep their commission seat after Mari? If not that could mean members the commission didn't support had him killed and took control of the family while they reverted to supporting Sciacca as boss. Just thinking out loud from your post it doesn't seem like there's anything to support that.

Can i ask if you personally believe Mari was ever boss or do you think this is off information? As i'm sure there's plenty of contradicting information from informants on leadership.

very hard to say. I really don't know. But it would be odd if the FBI put it in their anual eport of 1969 if it didn't come from a reliable source. In case they were unsure,
I think they would put "boss unsure" or "not identified".
Mari was diagnosed with scizophrenia, according to the FBN book, and that could have played a vital part in the reason of his murder. Who would want an unstable boss? The fact that his body was never found and some mysterious rumors on him visiting Europe long after his death, kinda suggest that the killing was done on the sneak and that his killers didn't want insiders to know about it. But that just my 2 cents. I have not found anything substantual on his death.

According to this article he faked mental illness to avoid being drafted:

https://www.nytimes.com/1970/03/29/arch ... esident-of

[HairyKnuckles]

I cant view the article so I haven't read it. But its very hard to fake mental illness. The doctor doing the examination would have to be an hhalf ass one.

[eboli]

Here's the link to the article: https://www.nytimes.com/1970/03/29/arch ... s-the.html

I remember near the end of the war when T got drafted. In six months he was back on the street with a psycho discharge and 100 per cent disability from the Government. He was no more crazy than I am, but he kept yelling and banging his head on the floor and eating news papers until they gave up.

That's the part about Mari faking mental illness to dodge the draft. It sounds a bit apocryphal, like how Ted Nugent was pissing and shitting in his pants for days before evaluation. Most likely he paid someone and the rest about banging his head makes for a good story. I remember reading Tony Mirra did something similar, but he probably wasn't faking it.

[SonnyBlackstein]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cSUFaSVPCRQ

The Sopranos cast 20th anniversay interview on the TODAY show. 45mins.

[eboli]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cSUFaSVPCRQ

The Sopranos cast 20th anniversay interview on the TODAY show. 45mins.

Seeing Tony Sirico confused and forgetful is really sad. It looks like he aged 20 years in the last couple of years.

[Pogo The Clown]

Yeah he looks like shit. Dominic Chianese (Uncle Junior) is 11 years older and looks much better.


Pogo

[DPG]

Yeah he looks like shit. Dominic Chianese (Uncle Junior) is 11 years older and looks much better.


Pogo

I thought he passed away a few years back, guess I was wrong.

[DPG]

A silly question ... but as you research the Mafia?, I'm not talking about the sites but rather the method, first look for newspapers, articles, FBI Files, books? or by names or the criminal family? is that sometimes I'm kind of lost where to start.

This is the best collection of resources regarding the Mafia I've ever seen:
viewtopic.php?f=29&t=2325

Antiliar put it to together.

Thanks Fella, is that I get confused even in the order, what to research first, whether I research name, family, or a particular time...

Just depends on what your looking for....what are you interested in researching?

Mary Ferrell and the FBI vault are probably the best websites to use when researching anything mob related.

nothing very specific, I would like to know more about the 5 families, the Chicago Outfit and the Jewish mob, as there are many things and many names I am confused to organize myself.

I would pick up the book 'Five Families' if you don't have it, it gives a very good history-present day on the New York families and I guess what you could call the 'jewish mob.'

As far as Chicago goes I'm not so sure on a good book regarding their history but you could start with the thread on the Giancana hit as it is full of info on the Outfit. Also the black hand articles section has numerous articles on the Outfit regarding a ton of topics, written by the poster Villain. You could probably learn just about all you need to about the Outfit and their Jewish wing in those articles.

[Wiseguy]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cSUFaSVPCRQ

The Sopranos cast 20th anniversay interview on the TODAY show. 45mins.

Seeing Tony Sirico confused and forgetful is really sad. It looks like he aged 20 years in the last couple of years.

Yeah he looks like shit. Dominic Chianese (Uncle Junior) is 11 years older and looks much better.


Pogo

They've all aged except for Robert Iler (AJ). The guy looks exactly like he did when the show ended in 2007.

I'm not sure Sirico even knew where he was. Really sad.

[slimshady_007]

Do the Lucheses still have a strong Brooklyn faction?

[aleksandrored]

A silly question ... but as you research the Mafia?, I'm not talking about the sites but rather the method, first look for newspapers, articles, FBI Files, books? or by names or the criminal family? is that sometimes I'm kind of lost where to start.

This is the best collection of resources regarding the Mafia I've ever seen:
viewtopic.php?f=29&t=2325

Antiliar put it to together.

Thanks Fella, is that I get confused even in the order, what to research first, whether I research name, family, or a particular time...

Just depends on what your looking for....what are you interested in researching?

Mary Ferrell and the FBI vault are probably the best websites to use when researching anything mob related.

nothing very specific, I would like to know more about the 5 families, the Chicago Outfit and the Jewish mob, as there are many things and many names I am confused to organize myself.

I would pick up the book 'Five Families' if you don't have it, it gives a very good history-present day on the New York families and I guess what you could call the 'jewish mob.'

As far as Chicago goes I'm not so sure on a good book regarding their history but you could start with the thread on the Giancana hit as it is full of info on the Outfit. Also the black hand articles section has numerous articles on the Outfit regarding a ton of topics, written by the poster Villain. You could probably learn just about all you need to about the Outfit and their Jewish wing in those articles.

thanks for the informations fella.

[Andyboy]

Can a captain give a contract?

[Pierino1978]

It's amazing how many old timers had rape charges/convictions on their rapsheets !!

[Mvguy818]

Anyone have any idea when Vito Rizzuto got made?

A couples of years ago in prison obviously