Mob Talk Sitdown 23

[Fughedaboutit]

If the other shoe drops with the Grande/Servidio/Piccolo thing we'll get a clearer picture

They have Piccolo and Servidio dead to rights on that plus Grande on tape taking his cut as a Capo. The other shoe will drop it’s not a matter of if, but when. I imagine the hold up is they want to see if they can tie in murders and Merlino, my guess.

Yeah that's true, they just seem to be taking their time on this case, I'm sure it'll come. You made a point earlier that I wanted to touch on...Borgesi was a source for GA back in the 90s before they had a falling about around 2000/2001. Wouldn't surprise me if they patched things up and he's echoing what Borgesi is giving him, not saying GA is throwing bullshit out there on Borgesi's behalf though.

They made a bunch of guys a couple years ago and now they want to close up shop?

Probably laying low, checking out any associates to feel out if they are rats or any possible agents due to that case

[Pogo The Clown]

I don't think GA is that naive to think that just because Borgesi and a few others have a legit business that they are no longer involved in the rackets. I'm sure he is basing his statements on more than that.


Pogo

[Fughedaboutit]

I don't think GA is that naive to think that just because Borgesi and a few others have a legit business that they are no longer involved in the rackets. I'm sure he is basing his statements on more than that.


Pogo

If you are so "sure", what else is he basing the statements on?

[Chucky]

I don't think GA is that naive to think that just because Borgesi and a few others have a legit business that they are no longer involved in the rackets. I'm sure he is basing his statements on more than that.


Pogo

To clarify, I meant this specifically for Borgesi, I don't doubt these guys have legit interests going on.

[SonnyBlackstein]

I don't think GA is that naive to think that just because Borgesi and a few others have a legit business that they are no longer involved in the rackets. I'm sure he is basing his statements on more than that.


Pogo

So now we’re basing credibility of material on ‘I’m sure they have a reason for saying that’?

That’s not a reason. That’s, you hope they have a reason.



Just opinion.

[Pogo The Clown]

Because I don't think GA is making all this up. He has built his credibility on covering Philly for almost 40 years now. He is not known for pulling things out of his ass. If it weren't for him we wouldn't know most of what we about the family. Never mind even be discussing this topic right now. If he makes several statements all saying the same thing than I think there is something to it. If anything he has an incentive to hype up the family but he is not.

It could be a slowing down of things, similar to what we see elsewhere, especially in the other few remaining small families outside New York.

Yeah Philly has shown a remarkable resilience in the past but from what GA has said it does look like attrition and the drying up of rackets is finally taking effect.


Pogo

[Hellboy 17]

Why would they even make new members then?

[TommyGambino]

Faffy looks good for a 70 year old who's just done 28 years!

[I 25 I]

Ya I just don’t see them going legit. Merlino just threw a party for his wife and 100 wise guys are there. So much for no one in Philly liking him.

Who said that?

[SILENT PARTNERZ]

I don't think they are saying the whole family is inactive. Just certain members. And that the family as a whole is not as active anymore. Normally if it were some random writer I would probably dismiss it but GA is pretty reliable. This is the third piece he has said something similiar. There has to be something to it.


Pogo

I agree that with GA stating 'inactive' , or 'not much to oversee' several times lately, that there might be validity to it.

It brings to mind what Harry Aleman said about the Outfit in an interview back in 2005 around the time of the Family Secrets case.

It could be a slowing down of things, similar to what we see elsewhere, especially in the other few remaining small families outside New York.

People can point to the Philadelphia family's membership remaining pretty stable, and the relatively larger number of younger guys, but there is also the question of their business model.

Compared to past decades, there is certainly less to oversee. No real numbers business left. Not sure if they ever reestablished their video poker machine operation after the raids and 2011 bust. Limited loansharking activity, at least when looking at the indictments. Obviously no more involvement in HEREU Local 54. City-wide, Scarfo-style street tax gone. The family has had rather marginal involvement in drugs. The odd small time scam or theft isn't going to make anyone rich. To a large degree, that leaves the most core of Mafia core businesses - bookmaking. It remains to be seen just how much of an impact legalized sports betting will have on that.

This could lead to more Philly guys looking to get into legitimate things. And, perhaps eventually, them going the Chicago route and stop from making new members so as to enlarge the shrinking pie for the rest.

agreed. The Philly Mob is still there, but how much illegal income can be made in 2018?
Not as much as in the past. If you can use your influence and connections to make legal
income, you can limit your LE exposure. AS always they will make $ where ever possible.

[Angelo Santino]

Because I don't think GA is making all this up. He has built his credibility on covering Philly for almost 40 years now. He is not known for pulling things out of his ass. If it weren't for him we wouldn't know most of what we about the family. Never mind even be discussing this topic right now. If he makes several statements all saying the same thing than I think there is something to it. If anything he has an incentive to hype up the family but he is not.

It could be a slowing down of things, similar to what we see elsewhere, especially in the other few remaining small families outside New York.

Yeah Philly has shown a remarkable resilience in the past but from what GA has said it does look like attrition and the drying up of rackets is finally taking effect.


Pogo

A few takeaways/observations:

1 This modus operandi shrouded in legitimacy existed during Ligambi's tenure. Back in the early 2000's when he was considered Philly's new boss, articles were releasing tidbits (however true or not) steering the conversation towards that conclusion: Ligambi required everyone to have legitimate jobs, the "Make money not headlines" talking point, to LEO's confirming that most of the membership were 9 to 5 guys who went home most evenings... I can't help but wonder if there's an element of surprise since Merlino came home, like everyone was expecting the guys to start wearing Armani and begin shooting each other.

2 If you look into the final days of LA, New Orleans or Pueblo, what you seen was something very similar: divesting in street crime, hanging onto some marginal rackets (book, gambling) while strongly refocusing on legitimate ventures, not to become captains of industry (although this did happen when you apply underworld muscle into legitimate business deails) but to rather eek out a living and leave something to the family (lower case f). KC is arguably the same: there isn't much of any crime family there, but juke boxes are controlled by alot of familiar surnames. Even Tampa seems to have gone this route.

3 There was an old poster from years ago on the forums, Nino, from Philly who actually was close to the Ciancaglinis and would on occasion spot Marty Angelina and knew Veasey's son to be an addict before his OD hit the news. While not in any position to say who is who, he concluded back then (in the late 2000's) that Philadelphia amounted to gambling and bookmaking but little else. "There's nothing to run," he said.

Quite the contrast from the 1980's where wiseguys were aggressively trying to strong arm dealers, extort independent bookmakers, gauge unions and get construction contracts in AC. If the modern trend keeps up and Philadelphia becomes 'mostly' legit it'll re-spark the age-old debate on what makes a family viable if they are all aspiring to be white-collar wiseguys.

Lastly, and this is as close as I come to Furio by rereferencing a talking point I've made a few times past: by all accounts from Anastasia as well as wiretaps about him being behind on his rent, Merlino attempted to legitimize himself. When he came out, I was highly skeptical he was 'the boss' because I was aware from my contacts that he was feeling out the interests of a book or film deal, both of which went nowhere. Sure, I can't argue what some suspect that it was Merlino's way of pulling a flashier Chin but I'm dubious. I'm not saying Merlino has been 100% legitimate since he came home but I still hold open the possibility that he was making his best attempt to avoid falling back into it.. There's also the Licata-Ligambi wiretaps were Uncle Joe says in regards to making someone "let's wait until Joey gets home." I kinda suspect Ligambi was planning to make his exit once Merlino got home, that the setup would be reevaluated then. Bosses or not, both men are ranking members so they'd have a vested interest. Pure speculation on my part.

[Stroccos]

Because I don't think GA is making all this up. He has built his credibility on covering Philly for almost 40 years now. He is not known for pulling things out of his ass. If it weren't for him we wouldn't know most of what we about the family. Never mind even be discussing this topic right now. If he makes several statements all saying the same thing than I think there is something to it. If anything he has an incentive to hype up the family but he is not.

It could be a slowing down of things, similar to what we see elsewhere, especially in the other few remaining small families outside New York.

Yeah Philly has shown a remarkable resilience in the past but from what GA has said it does look like attrition and the drying up of rackets is finally taking effect.


Pogo

Lastly, and this is as close as I come to Furio by rereferencing a talking point I've made a few times past: by all accounts from Anastasia as well as wiretaps about him being behind on his rent, Merlino attempted to legitimize himself. When he came out, I was highly skeptical he was 'the boss' because I was aware from my contacts that he was feeling out the interests of a book or film deal, both of which went nowhere. Sure, I can't argue what some suspect that it was Merlino's way of pulling a flashier Chin but I'm dubious. I'm not saying Merlino has been 100% legitimate since he came home but I still hold open the possibility that he was making his best attempt to avoid falling back into it.. There's also the Licata-Ligambi wiretaps were Uncle Joe says in regards to making someone "let's wait until Joey gets home." I kinda suspect Ligambi was planning to make his exit once Merlino got home, that the setup would be reevaluated then. Bosses or not, both men are ranking members so they'd have a vested interest. Pure speculation on my part.

Merlino was telling everyone he didn’t want to do anything illegal , IMO just a ploy in case someone was recording . yet he was collecting money from the medical scam through advertising company .
melrino proposed three guys from prison , Ligambi didn’t want to make those guys because he didn’t know them .
Those guys may of been made when Marty Angelia got of prison

[Angelo Santino]

Merlino was telling everyone he didn’t want to do anything illegal , IMO just a ploy in case someone was recording . yet he was collecting money from the medical scam through advertising company .
melrino proposed three guys from prison , Ligambi didn’t want to make those guys because he didn’t know them .
Those guys may of been made when Marty Angelia got of prison

1 He could have been using a ploy or he could have been serious. There's enough pointers to argue either way.
2 From someone who used to work in "that business" and could have been charged with "criminally receiving" despite my belief at the time that it was strictly legitimate, the medical insurance industry, especially in Florida, is not clear-cut black and white. I'm sure there were physicians "involved" who thought what they were doing was wholesomely legitimate. The nature of the business isn't "hey, let's do this illegal thing" but rather "here's a very good business opportunity, I'll send you over the details and if you're interested, our attorneys can meet and discuss the legal nuts and bolts." On the ground level, no one is liable, everyone is sold under the guise of legality and motivated by the fine profits.... then again, maybe he did know he was doing something illegal?
3 Yes, he proposed guys which indicates 100% that he is still affiliated/has involvement with the Phila. Family. However, it could be argued that if he was the final authority, he wouldn't have to propose anyone to Ligambi, he could just issue an order. I can't see Scarfo having to run proposed members by Piccolo for his say-so had a similar scenario occurred in 1989... I'm not arguing Merlino's innocence, I'm proposing the possibility that he was trying to step away from criminal ventures, that it wasn't as clear cut as "the boss is coming home."... I guess it depends on how you look at it: if you consider any and all interaction with "the criminal organization" then he's certainly a criminal, but if you view it as an "organization composed of criminals" then he's simply associating with Organizational people he's known who have criminal records.

Again, this can be argued either way and I'm not certain which is what, only that there's a thin case to be made that he didn't "hit the ground running" back into the moblife. The fact that he reached out to GA for a potential book deal and that he met with Fratto and Provenzano about a potential film kinda validates that. I mean I guess it's possible he was doing that to "throw off the feds" but I highly doubt it, law enforcement just doesn't work that way and could potentially damage him. The guys who killed Big Mac McKenna made a movie about it called Taking Over and it was used in their trial as evidence against them.

[PHL_Mob]

The money is flowing that’s for sure. They’ve got a web of shell companies setup and some of you might recognize some of the names... there’s a Dun & Bradstreet LLC web search and if they all flow through Merlino’s wife and his associates. Erlaumic LLC and Performance Consulting was what they were writing the pain cream checks to amongst other things... you can see the connections using the link below. My point is, the money is flowing...

https://www.corporationwiki.com/p/2eybfw/erlaumic-llc

[PHL_Mob]

Also, what was interesting to me is Charles Hallihan was one of the connected parties. If you don’t recognize that name, he was the one that just went to jail for running and inventing the Billion dollar pay day lending market. Pretty clear Joey was getting a piece of that otherwise I can’t explain why he’d have money flowing into this web.