Any new made guys since 2010?

[Pete]

The Bonnaos are growing they are making new guys like crazy


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based on the numbers wise guy posted it looks like the new York families are replenishing rather than growing. When people die and you replace them that's not growing that is replacing old guys to keep membership the same. Sounds like maybe we are arguing over terminology. The families are making new people but to grow you have to make more people than have died and I haven't seen any evidence overall membership is increasing in any family. Again all the numbers posted by wise guy show the numbers are staying in the same range on ny families making new guys to replace old ones

[phatmatress]

In my opinion that's growth if they were not making new members then that would be shrinking to me.... I'm not trying to argue I guess we are on the same page just not on the paragraph


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[B.]

I believe they've always been more focused on replenishing than growing. The NY families and DeCavalcantes have had a fixed number of members but they likely haven't been able to fill the ranks the past couple decades. Combined with the fact that they can't replace murdered members, this would gradually make them smaller as well.

The Colombos for example had ~110 members when Joe Colombo took over and that's a number that continued up to the Persico/Orena war. It seems possible if not likely that this general number goes back further.

[Ivan]

A major "growth" campaign, rather than mere replenishment, would likely result in a law enforcement crackdown, yes?

[Wiseguy]

I guess my point is there is not a huge difference between Phillys 20 active guys and a family like Detroit. Some difference? Maybe but for the most part all of the families outside of NY are on the same page. Philly is not growing like one poster said and neither is any other. They are all still retracting and to deny that wise guy is to deny the facts

I don't know how you can say that when we have no idea how many guys in Detroit are even active. We still see indictments on Philadelphia members which, among other things, give us details on not only what they're involved in but what their ranks are. We rarely see anything like this in Detroit. Most likely because there isn't that much going on and so not much to report. And that suggests that these overly hierarchical Detroit charts of 40, 50, or 60 members in several fully staffed, fulling functioning crews that we see on the internet just isn't reality.

But I do agree about Philadelphia not really "growing" either. I currently count something like 46 members for Philadelphia with another 7 guys that are possible members. That's quite similar to the 50 member total cited back in the 2004 NJ OC report. The family has remained relatively stable. It's not really growing so much but membership isn't really "down" either. How many guys are active on the street is always in a state of flux. So to use Philadelphia having only 20 or so active members on the street to argue there's "not much difference" between them and Detroit is a real stretch, to say the least.

I think it would be accurate to say there is not much difference between Philadelphia, New England and New Jersey. But I see no real convincing evidence that Detroit is in that same league.

I believe they've always been more focused on replenishing than growing. The NY families and DeCavalcantes have had a fixed number of members but they likely haven't been able to fill the ranks the past couple decades. Combined with the fact that they can't replace murdered members, this would gradually make them smaller as well.

Again, it's hard to say because it's not clear exactly what the max membership for each family is. But, as I said, the membership for the NY families have been relatively stable over the past 20 years. The DeCavalcantes as well. And if the NY families continue the tradition of making two new members at Christmas time, that would more than balance out whatever members they lose through guys being killed.

[Pete]

Wise guy your ignorance on Detroit suggest you don't read the gangster report

[B.]

I believe they've always been more focused on replenishing than growing. The NY families and DeCavalcantes have had a fixed number of members but they likely haven't been able to fill the ranks the past couple decades. Combined with the fact that they can't replace murdered members, this would gradually make them smaller as well.

Again, it's hard to say because it's not clear exactly what the max membership for each family is. But, as I said, the membership for the NY families have been relatively stable over the past 20 years. The DeCavalcantes as well. And if the NY families continue the tradition of making two new members at Christmas time, that would more than balance out whatever members they lose through guys being killed.

They aren't allowed to replace members who have been killed, though. At least not officially. Only members who die of natural causes can be replaced. In the short term this wouldn't seem to mean much, but when you look back at the last century as a whole, that is a lot of members per family that have been murdered and can't be replaced.

[SonnyBlackstein]

They aren't allowed to replace members who have been killed, though. At least not officially. Only members who die of natural causes can be replaced. In the short term this wouldn't seem to mean much, but when you look back at the last century as a whole, that is a lot of members per family that have been murdered and can't be replaced.

This can't be enforced otherwise the families are on an inevitable path to extinction of their own making. Non-sensical myth imo.
Can rats be replaced? I'd be more inclined to believe rats cannot be replaced than the above.

Wise guy your ignorance on Detroit suggest you don't read the gangster report

HOPE this is a joke.

Seen the latest on the gangster report? Scott's suggesting the Nicodemo hit was pre-planned. Using his own car.
So take what's published on that site with more than a little grain of salt...

[Wiseguy]

Wise guy your ignorance on Detroit suggest you don't read the gangster report

I actually read his blog quite often. Once again, I don't take what Scott says about Detroit as the Gospel truth or use his info as my only source on the current state of the Detroit mob. You apparently do.

[johnny_scootch]

How can anyone be sure that without a functioning commission to enforce them the rules such as how many men a family can have, the 2 guys at christmas time, you can't replace murdered guys and rules of this nature are actually still in effect? I would assume that without an overall governing entity some sort of chaos has to have ensued (similar to what went on prior to the commissions existence) and each family would try to gain from this and get a leg up on one another. Back in the day one of the worst things that could happen to a family was it would lose its commission seat. So how can their be a consequence for making 10 guys at christmas time or replacing a couple murdered members without a commission to enact it?

[Chaps]

Can rats be replaced? I'd be more inclined to believe rats cannot be replaced than the above.

According to Sal Vitale, rats can only be replaced after they have died.

[SonnyBlackstein]

How can anyone be sure that without a functioning commission to enforce them the rules such as how many men a family can have, the 2 guys at christmas time, you can't replace murdered guys and rules of this nature are actually still in effect? I would assume that without an overall governing entity some sort of chaos has to have ensued (similar to what went on prior to the commissions existence) and each family would try to gain from this and get a leg up on one another. Back in the day one of the worst things that could happen to a family was it would lose its commission seat. So how can their be a consequence for making 10 guys at christmas time or replacing a couple murdered members without a commission to enact it?

Just because the commission doesnt meet doesnt mean new guys dont get their names passed round and have to be vetted by each familes respective ruling body.

They may not meet to discuss rackets as a committee, but numbers are still regulated and vetted.

[johnny_scootch]

Just because the commission doesnt meet doesnt mean new guys dont get their names passed round and have to be vetted by each familes respective ruling body.

They may not meet to discuss rackets as a committee, but numbers are still regulated and vetted.

I didn't say they don't pass the list around what I am trying to get at is we know for a fact that the families lie to each other about replacing men, Sal Vitale said he looked up names in the phone book and put them on the list as guys he would be replacing to add members and it worked. No one guy knows how many members each family has or every single member of each family when the list gets passed. So what if all the families pulled the phone book trick? Who's to stop them? And if they did get caught who would decide the penalty and enforce it? I think it's logical to assume since the demise of the commission some of these type of rules may have died with it.

[British]

Are the books permanently open these days?

But the problem the families have is there are very few decent candidates that meet the criteria?


Best thing for some of the families would be to bring more zips in and get it back closer to its origins...

[Five Felonies]

Best thing for some of the families would be to bring more zips in and get it back closer to its origins...

sicilians are not a commodity and can't just be imported like olive oil, assuming they even want to at this point which i highly doubt!

it seems like for the most part the families are policing themselves these days. 3 out of 5 are stable with solid leadership, i don't really see them having too much concern over what the 2 b league teams are up too, the best course of action seems to be just keeping their distance from the bottom shelf. i just don't see the genovese family risking any type of exposure at all to put a halt to the columbos making vito bumblefuck or sal the shitbag in this day and age. with that said, families that share alot of joint operations are sure to weigh in on possible members that could directly affect them and their rackets, with the genovese and luchesse construction partnerships being a prime example!