BB question about black gangsters

[OlBlueEyesClub]

You have your opinion. However, very few blacks who are successful has issues in their old neighborhoods as long as they give back in some way, whether it's jobs or just turkeys for Thanksgiving . Jesse Jackson has a reputation of taking and not giving. Thats why he holds no credibility among his own people. 50 Cent for instance, drives through the projects in an all white Bentley with the top down, and no security, and gets out and talks to those who hang around outside and he's always good. But he's a known philanthropist within his own community and others.

[Confederate]

The blacks today are a different type of criminal from back then. Yall got no idea. Well phats prolly does and add BW. When people say they aren't organized etc. it makes me laugh. They are organized as soon as they can walk.

The Blacks are organized into little neighborhood sets that are all against each other. The name Crips means nothing. There are more Crips killed by other Crips than by Bloods. It's one little area against another little area. All you have to do is research Los Angeles, Chicago, Detroit and see the Police Reports and Crime Statistics and that will tell you all you need to know about Black Disorganized Crime. It is a horrible way of life and the decent Black people who live in all those areas are trapped. The worst areas in this Country have traditionally been under Liberal Democrats who want to keep all the Blacks thinking they are victims and giving them handouts so they will vote for them. The Liberals have no intention of seeing the Black Community improve itself. They just want them on survival mode so they can go to the polls and vote Democrat.

[DPG]

I wasn't trying to say they are organized in a gang. I was pointing out that they themselves, the ones who are successful atleast, have their personal operation very organized. And again I'm not saying organized like the Italians were. They are taught from the time they are born how to sell dope, use people(including the govt), and fend for themselves. These are my personal experiences atleast.

[Hellboy 17]

I’ve been dealing with black folks all my life, and there is nothing organized about them. They 98 percent of them ain’t making no real change, I promise u that. It’s all a bullshit facade.

[Confederate]

I wasn't trying to say they are organized in a gang. I was pointing out that they themselves, the ones who are successful atleast, have their personal operation very organized. And again I'm not saying organized like the Italians were. They are taught from the time they are born how to sell dope, use people(including the govt), and fend for themselves. These are my personal experiences atleast.

I hear ya but the truth of the matter is that their worst enemies in Life are other Blacks. Chicago is the worst city and a prime example. Last year there were 4,000 shootings and 80% were Blacks shooting Blacks. Most all of it involves their disorganized crime set up which is Black against Black just like the good old days in Africa with one little Tribe always at war with the other little Tribe in the next Village.

[willychichi]

Stay on topic guys, thanks.

[DPG]

I'm trying to talk about successful black gangsters. But your right this thread is unraveling fast.

[Eline2015]

Stay on topic guys, thanks.

Lol,on your avatar is a real crime boss

[CabriniGreen]

Is the question, okay forget that....

I think what you guys are asking is, was there a time period where Black criminals achieved parody or better with Italians in the drug trade.

The question, " Did black gangsters surpass LCN?", to me it says there might be a little confusion as to WHAT the mafia actually is..

B. and I had an interesting discourse on something similar. Does a large scale drug operation constitute a "MAFIA" ?


I say it depends......

A " MAFIA" style organization to me has to meet certain criteria.


To me, a mafia organization is one that uses crime to interpose its members between the economic fabric, and the political landscape of a given territory. And it should also, probably have some sort of self sustaining ideology, or a long term strategy designed to further entrench said organization in whichever economic sphere it occupies with the end goal being total monopoly.

[CabriniGreen]

Now the problem I see, is that most DTOs in the US fail to meet this criteria for a few reasons.

1. You can sell all the drugs in the world, it means jack shit if you have no idea HOW to integrate this illegal capital into the legitimate economy.

A DTO has to meet this criteria in order to really be in the same league as a " MAFIA".


@pogo
Wire fan? lol
Think Marlo, as feared as he was, as much drugs he sold, there was a VERY LOW glass ceiling as far as how high you can go if you cant launder the money.

( As an aside, when they had him use a corrupt man of the cloth, that was pretty authentic, it's what my cousin did, wash his money through a dirty church....)

2. Unlike most 3rd world countries, and to a certain extent Canada,.... drug money in this country is politically toxic. You can launder and start some businesses sure, but hand a politician a briefcase with dirty money?

They said this literally in the Wire too, the scene where he takes the briefcase with corner-dirty Bill's to the drug supplier, and he tells him his money stinks.

So in the US, there is a ceiling as far as how far drug money takes you politically. This is why, ( and it might be very different at the border....) the Mexicans dont hav widespread political influence. No way all the border talk gets off the ground otherwise, I think.

( I also see Trumps wall as a political weapon to counter Dems who backed NAFTA, as well as a real governmental tool to chop the cartels back down to size, my opinion..)

[CabriniGreen]

Now in a 3rd world country, this is totally different.....

In countries like Colombia, Albania, Mexico, drug trafficking is the very EPITOME of mafia activity.

Because the traffickers occupy a space between business and government by way of crime. Or more specifically, by controlling the labor force, the peasant farmers. And their drug money buys unlimited influence in their countries.

The mafia in Sicily, in it's most primal form, is what? A rich landowner, who may or may not be a politician. The peasant labor force that works the land, and the warden of the estate, who often times is was a mafiosi. The mafiosi controls the labor force, enabling him to exert influence within the economic sector. Because he controls who works, he controls who eats, thus he controls how they vote.

The landowner keeps his wages low, and secured himself a reliable bloc of votes. So it's a system of collusion, even more than JUST a criminal operation.

Russians in Brooklyn are like, criminal organizations. Russians in RUSSIA are fuckin "MAFIA" because they are PART of the state structure.

The mafia of New York dominated organized labor, it's the same as the mafia in Sicily, there just arnt labor unions there, or they arnt powerful like that.

I mean, keep in mind the politics, there was facism,
this is why I dont always agree that Naples is less organized. They dont have an agricultural labor force to wedge themselves into the local economic and political fabric, but they do have essentially a Garment District., there just isnt any unions.

Controlling Labor, or establishing a monopoly over a service or commodity, both of which usually involve collusion with politicians to be successful long term.

These to me are the cornerstones of " MAFIA" activity. Most drug gang fall short of this....


okay, rant over... i hope this shit made some sense, i could go on and on, feel myself getting longwinded here...


Any more thoughts?

[CabriniGreen]

okay.. Took a break

The question did the black drug dealers surpass LCN?

Well, how do you gain power in the drug trade?

1. Supply; You go to a source country,

( If something like meth then you need a source for the base chemical components....)
and you either make contact with the person or persons who controls the production zone, or you come with enough capital to control production yourself.

You connect with a factory, or you finance your own. The sicilians first made contact with French refineries, then financed their own heroin refineries.

Mexicans grow opium, manage coke factories and meth labs, as well as marijuana plantations.

But supply without vertical integration actually means the distributors long term usually will make more, IF they are organized...

Which brings me to...

2. Transport.

The person who can guarantee the stuff gets safely from point a to point b.
Basically the criminal equivalent of UPS, or these days, Amazon. The Mexicans, in a nutshell, and for Euro peans the Calabrians. This can be a border or port, trucking and or boating, OR planes as well, usually a combo of all three. (hell, throw in new age shit like tunnels and drones.)


3. Distribution

If you can monopolize distribution, you have leverage with suppliers. If you have a established brand you may even be sought out BY suppliers and import-exporters.

The fourth I would say are the ace money launderers.


Now, this isnt even really about the drug trade, this is JUST HOW BUSINESS WORKS.

I think back to that Castellano book. Now he had his PRODUCT, ( meat) his transportation, ( the trucking, as well as the butchers preparing the meat..) his distribution, the supermarkets.

Just one of these would give you power. ALL THREE make you a superpower. It doesn't really matter what it is...what ever product...


Now, Nicky Barnes to me is basically a black John Ormento. They controlled the Harlem markets, open air.


Actually, there have been lots of large scale black distributors.
I dont feel like naming em all...

The real questions are supply and transport.
I would say the Flenorys were huge in distribution.

The real supply question is Frank Mathews. I dont know enough.

Anyone have other examples?

[SILENT PARTNERZ]

Matty Maddona was supplying Barnes. and Lucas is a liar.

Exactly! Also, Seargent Ike Atkinson and Frank Mathews were the one's who
went into the Golden Triangle jungle to see Khun Sa & Lo Hsing Han- not Frank Lucas.
'Poetic license' used to enhance the stature of Frank Lucas and the movie.

[CabriniGreen]

if its true Mathews went to Asia, ( I always heard it was French connection heroin) then I put him above mafia distributors....

[ChicagoOutfit]

Surpassed for a short period of time perhaps...but where is the BMF organization now? Marothon...not a sprint....