Giancana’s killer revealed?

[SonnyBlackstein]

Take the information we have

Form your own conclusion

Be respectful of others conclusions (within reason)

Be open to exploring new avenues and ideas that may amend your original conclusion

This needs to be ‘sticky-ed’ in the rules section (do we have a ‘rules’ section??).

And if not, needs it’s own thread, should be mailed to every new poster upon joining, current members should have to read to agree in order to maintain access etc etc etc!!!

IE ..... THIS!

AKA +100000000

The above is a mantra we should all adopt.

[rayray]

Well...one thing has to be certain, the final ok came from Accardo but I'm assuming it wasn't him alone who wanted it done. I wonder who brought it up first? To take Giancana out for good.

You always hear about SG not giving up any of his Mexico money...does anyone know how much money he was making, how lucrative? And who was working down there with the guy? He had to have help....I have my reservations about how successful his Mexico racket was....if it was a money machine then why come back?

[Pete]

Well...one thing has to be certain, the final ok came from Accardo but I'm assuming it wasn't him alone who wanted it done. I wonder who brought it up first? To take Giancana out for good.

You always hear about SG not giving up any of his Mexico money...does anyone know how much money he was making, how lucrative? And who was working down there with the guy? He had to have help....I have my reservations about how successful his Mexico racket was....if it was a money machine then why come back?

He didn’t have a choice. Mexico threw him out of the country

[Confederate]

In 1973, Sam had a new girlfriend named Carolyn Morris. He was engaged to her but they never married. She lived in Los Angeles. I don't know what happened between Phyllis McGuire and Giancana. They probably just grew apart with her performing and him outside of the Country.

[Villain]

Thats right Confederate, Sam made a big change in his life by dumping McGuire but I think that they remained being close friends until the end

According to Paul Panzcko, who in turn served time with Sam in 65, and also according to several other informants, Sam personally stated that there was no more action for him in Chicago and that Cain convinced him to go to Mexico since at the time was allegedly "the real thing" and on top of that, I think that Cain was the main connection for Sam to get transferred and protected in that same country since when Cain got killed in 73, that same year Sam was deported back to the US. So when Sam previouslu left the country, he was responsible for few of the most lucrative international ops such as gambling casinos on cruise ships, also opening hotels and casinos in other states and countries, also complete control over the lucrative coin or vending machine business which generated millions and above all the dope racket. Over there he lived like a king with having all kinds of huge villas and apartments, which were also stretched around western Europe. So I doubt that Giancana was not making huge income for the Outfit and what happened next its a whole different story.

Also Im not saying that its not ture but can someone pls provide any kind of info which was leaked by another informer (except for Pierce) or some sort of file which states that Giancana wasnt sending any cash back? I personally never came across it or maybe I did but forgot, since I was always looking for other answers regarding his demise

[johnny_scootch]

Tony Accardo shows up to your door I don't give a fuck how much beef they had at the time Giancana lets him in.

He's the boss plain and simple.

You don't let him in......one thing certain to happen.

[Pete]

Tony Accardo shows up to your door I don't give a fuck how much beef they had at the time Giancana lets him in.

He's the boss plain and simple.

You don't let him in......one thing certain to happen.

I get what your saying but accardo also told him he wanted his share of all the money giancana was making when he was out of the country and giancana basically told him to go fuck himself. With that in mind would you let him in the house?

[Confederate]

Tony Accardo shows up to your door I don't give a fuck how much beef they had at the time Giancana lets him in.

He's the boss plain and simple.

You don't let him in......one thing certain to happen.

I get what your saying but accardo also told him he wanted his share of all the money giancana was making when he was out of the country and giancana basically told him to go fuck himself. With that in mind would you let him in the house?

No, you would not let him in the house. In addition, The Caretaker never said Accardo was even there. The Caretaker only identified Blasi.

[SILENT PARTNERZ]

Thats right Confederate, Sam made a big change in his life by dumping McGuire but I think that they remained being close friends until the end

According to Paul Panzcko, who in turn served time with Sam in 65, and also according to several other informants, Sam personally stated that there was no more action for him in Chicago and that Cain convinced him to go to Mexico since at the time was allegedly "the real thing" and on top of that, I think that Cain was the main connection for Sam to get transferred and protected in that same country since when Cain got killed in 73, that same year Sam was deported back to the US. So when Sam previouslu left the country, he was responsible for few of the most lucrative international ops such as gambling casinos on cruise ships, also opening hotels and casinos in other states and countries, also complete control over the lucrative coin or vending machine business which generated millions and above all the dope racket. Over there he lived like a king with having all kinds of huge villas and apartments, which were also stretched around western Europe. So I doubt that Giancana was not making huge income for the Outfit and what happened next its a whole different story.

Also Im not saying that its not ture but can someone pls provide any kind of info which was leaked by another informer (except for Pierce) or some sort of file which states that Giancana wasnt sending any cash back? I personally never came across it or maybe I did but forgot, since I was always looking for other answers regarding his demise

In a couple of the documentaries I've seen, they state that Giancana had run out of his money, and that was the main reason he came back to the US. That and extradition threats. Their research and claims must be faulty if Sam's oversea operations were so lucrative. Any thoughts?

[SILENT PARTNERZ]

I'm posting this here since there has been some discussion on Ralph Pierce in this thread.

Ed posted a new article on Pierce's cooperation. Good read as always:

http://mafiahistory.us/rattrap/ralphpierce.html

Why did Pierce inform? Was he going to be indicted?
If he was not threatened by Roemer, why would he go
to all the trouble of informing. Something explanation is missing.

[johnny_scootch]

Tony Accardo shows up to your door I don't give a fuck how much beef they had at the time Giancana lets him in.

He's the boss plain and simple.

You don't let him in......one thing certain to happen.

I get what your saying but accardo also told him he wanted his share of all the money giancana was making when he was out of the country and giancana basically told him to go fuck himself. With that in mind would you let him in the house?

No, you would not let him in the house. In addition, The Caretaker never said Accardo was even there. The Caretaker only identified Blasi.

Confederate this is hypothetical obviously. Pete everything I've ever read about Gianacana says to me he's not the type of guy to hide in his house. If he had the balls to come back to Chicago after telling Accardo to go fuck himself (a death sentence in itself) he would have the balls to open his door and let the old man in for a talk. That's just how I see it.

[Frank]

Tony Accardo shows up to your door I don't give a fuck how much beef they had at the time Giancana lets him in.

He's the boss plain and simple.

You don't let him in......one thing certain to happen.

I get what your saying but accardo also told him he wanted his share of all the money giancana was making when he was out of the country and giancana basically told him to go fuck himself. With that in mind would you let him in the house?

No, you would not let him in the house. In addition, The Caretaker never said Accardo was even there. The Caretaker only identified Blasi.

Confederate this is hypothetical obviously. Pete everything I've ever read about Gianacana says to me he's not the type of guy to hide in his house. If he had the balls to come back to Chicago after telling Accardo to go fuck himself (a death sentence in itself) he would have the balls to open his door and let the old man in for a talk. That's just how I see it.

Remember Mexico threw him out. If Accardo did actually kill him himself, who knows what had transpired in the weeks before that. Maybe Giancana had changed his mind and they were in the middle of straightening things out. Then in the same time period they figuered they ought to whack him because of the upcoming hearings. Maybe Accardo was just getting rid of guys that he had past beefs with like Roselli and Giancana and that Giancana was a dead man even if he coughed up the money or not.

[Villain]

Thats right Confederate, Sam made a big change in his life by dumping McGuire but I think that they remained being close friends until the end

According to Paul Panzcko, who in turn served time with Sam in 65, and also according to several other informants, Sam personally stated that there was no more action for him in Chicago and that Cain convinced him to go to Mexico since at the time was allegedly "the real thing" and on top of that, I think that Cain was the main connection for Sam to get transferred and protected in that same country since when Cain got killed in 73, that same year Sam was deported back to the US. So when Sam previouslu left the country, he was responsible for few of the most lucrative international ops such as gambling casinos on cruise ships, also opening hotels and casinos in other states and countries, also complete control over the lucrative coin or vending machine business which generated millions and above all the dope racket. Over there he lived like a king with having all kinds of huge villas and apartments, which were also stretched around western Europe. So I doubt that Giancana was not making huge income for the Outfit and what happened next its a whole different story.

Also Im not saying that its not ture but can someone pls provide any kind of info which was leaked by another informer (except for Pierce) or some sort of file which states that Giancana wasnt sending any cash back? I personally never came across it or maybe I did but forgot, since I was always looking for other answers regarding his demise

In a couple of the documentaries I've seen, they state that Giancana had run out of his money, and that was the main reason he came back to the US. That and extradition threats. Their research and claims must be faulty if Sam's oversea operations were so lucrative. Any thoughts?

I cant say that their claims are false since something obviously happened to Sams fortune. I mean even if he spent all of his cash or got somehow robbed by someone, still he invested in a lot of real estate in Central America and western Europe which by selling few things here and there it was going to bring him in shape in no time. Maybe someone pulled the strings and everything he possessed went frozen because of his notorious reputation and I also believe that same person or organization was behind his forced deportation to the states. Story goes that Hyman Larner was ordered to cut off Sam from some of the rackets, who I believe was followed by Mugsy Tortoriello and the rest of the so-called international fellas.

One of the main talks regarding Giancanas alleged bankruptcy again comes from his caretaker who in turn said that the old boss owed him money for more than several months of duty but later when they searched Sams dead body, they found $1400 or $1500 dollars in his pockets. I mean what kind of an individual carries over 1000 bucks in his pockets and walks around his house?! Why would Sam lie to his own caretaker and not give him his paycheck....one possible answer would be that he was really out of cash and those money were his last stash, or he lied to the poor fella since thats the way Sam was....

[Pete]

Thats right Confederate, Sam made a big change in his life by dumping McGuire but I think that they remained being close friends until the end

According to Paul Panzcko, who in turn served time with Sam in 65, and also according to several other informants, Sam personally stated that there was no more action for him in Chicago and that Cain convinced him to go to Mexico since at the time was allegedly "the real thing" and on top of that, I think that Cain was the main connection for Sam to get transferred and protected in that same country since when Cain got killed in 73, that same year Sam was deported back to the US. So when Sam previouslu left the country, he was responsible for few of the most lucrative international ops such as gambling casinos on cruise ships, also opening hotels and casinos in other states and countries, also complete control over the lucrative coin or vending machine business which generated millions and above all the dope racket. Over there he lived like a king with having all kinds of huge villas and apartments, which were also stretched around western Europe. So I doubt that Giancana was not making huge income for the Outfit and what happened next its a whole different story.

Also Im not saying that its not ture but can someone pls provide any kind of info which was leaked by another informer (except for Pierce) or some sort of file which states that Giancana wasnt sending any cash back? I personally never came across it or maybe I did but forgot, since I was always looking for other answers regarding his demise

A lot of what I know on the topic came from roemer who got it from Cain who sam was close with. He talked about a meeting Cain had with aiuppa and accardo. Haven’t read that book in awhile but the gist was accardo and aiuppa telling Cain “your guy (sam) thinks he’s bigger than us” as in he was making money and not giving them anything because he thought he didn’t have to, since he didn’t think he answered to them. Cain tried to stay out of it but they put him firmly in the middle trying to tell Cain, to tell sam, to do the right thing.

[Villain]

Thats right Confederate, Sam made a big change in his life by dumping McGuire but I think that they remained being close friends until the end

According to Paul Panzcko, who in turn served time with Sam in 65, and also according to several other informants, Sam personally stated that there was no more action for him in Chicago and that Cain convinced him to go to Mexico since at the time was allegedly "the real thing" and on top of that, I think that Cain was the main connection for Sam to get transferred and protected in that same country since when Cain got killed in 73, that same year Sam was deported back to the US. So when Sam previouslu left the country, he was responsible for few of the most lucrative international ops such as gambling casinos on cruise ships, also opening hotels and casinos in other states and countries, also complete control over the lucrative coin or vending machine business which generated millions and above all the dope racket. Over there he lived like a king with having all kinds of huge villas and apartments, which were also stretched around western Europe. So I doubt that Giancana was not making huge income for the Outfit and what happened next its a whole different story.

Also Im not saying that its not ture but can someone pls provide any kind of info which was leaked by another informer (except for Pierce) or some sort of file which states that Giancana wasnt sending any cash back? I personally never came across it or maybe I did but forgot, since I was always looking for other answers regarding his demise

A lot of what I know on the topic came from roemer who got it from Cain who sam was close with. He talked about a meeting Cain had with aiuppa and accardo. Haven’t read that book in awhile but the gist was accardo and aiuppa telling Cain “your guy (sam) thinks he’s bigger than us” as in he was making money and not giving them anything because he thought he didn’t have to, since he didn’t think he answered to them. Cain tried to stay out of it but they put him firmly in the middle trying to tell Cain, to tell sam, to do the right thing.

Thanks a lot man and yeah it was a long time since I also read that book and to tell you the truth this whole situation sounds very plausible since it does sounds like Sams huge ego. As you or some other poster previously stated, his demise was probably followed by several reasons but this was the main one which crossed the line for the tripe A admin. According to my research, Sam was a stingy fella who spent most of his cash on his own desires and also to his mistresses' desires, who again were his own satisfaction. I think that even during his term as boss, he already created few secret enemies such as Battaglia, Daddono and possibly Nicoletti, like for example if in one single area some of these fellas controlled between 10 or 15 spots, then Sam as the Outfits boss controlled between 30 and 40 spots if you know what Im saying here?! But I think that even that was somehow "swallowed" by Ricca and Accardo but when the first one left this world, the second one obviously had enough with his ego tactics. I also remember one convo or statement from Battaglia right after Sams release from jail and he was like "they shouldve kept him" or "this is the worst thing that couldve happened to us" lol So I believe that 90% of his old peers already abandoned him before Accardo and Aiuppa both "pulled their triggers"