Snakes wrote: ↑Fri Jun 29, 2018 12:10 pm
You see how hard it is to request an unclassified file. The government isn't very forthcoming on releasing free information.
I don't think the Giancana and Roselli murders had anything to do with Kennedy. Giancana was holding back from the bosses and Roselli was expendable and couldn't keep his mouth shut.
Yes but how many people that followed current events and the Kennedy Assassination from back in those days still are under the assumption that alot of these things are all tied together. Well let's see where this info goes. It sounds like the Accardo being the killer is bullshit, and the Giancana hit being solved and closed as to who actually pulled the trigger also bullshit. The Accardo ordering the hit, because Giancana was holding back sounds like the real deal. Since Family Secrets I thought the Accardo ordering the hit because of Giancana holding back was basically the official reason for his killing.
Frank, i agree with the above reason. It's just with Giancana's ties to the CIA Castro hit and his being called
in to testify with the JFK sub-committie has always cast the conspiracy theories. I doubt we will ever know
the truth about all of these murders. The gov't will keep it locked away forever IMO.
It sounds far fetched (outlandishly so, at first) but I'm not going to dismiss it outright. The egghead in me really wants to get a hold of those files that he got from Sr.
Snakes wrote: ↑Fri Jun 29, 2018 12:21 pm
They only killed DeStefano and Cain and both were of of little use to the Outfit after Giancana left for Mexico. The "Taylor Street purge" line of thinking is basically old, debunked nonsense from elmwoodparker/the Don.
What I also remember about the Don and or Fosco was their contention that Giancana was still the Boss of the Outfit till the day he was killed. That Aiuppa and Cerone got Accardo to go along with them to overthrown the Giancana regime. They also believed that Accardo was never the top boss of the Outfit. That Aiuppa would have been happy to let Accardo be boss, but Accardo didn't want it. Accardo became Aiuppa's consigliere.They stated that the reason for the overthrow was with Giancana being out of the country, Aiuppa and other Capos or were complaining that they couldn't get business done, always waiting for Giancana to sneak back into the country.
That was more a Don thing than a Fosco thing, if I recall correctly. Although Fosco did say Giancana was boss until he died, which we know isn't true. I used to think the Don knew what he was talking about until I started doing more and more research on my own. He essentially fabricated things based on what he thought or what he wanted to believe. It's pretty clear in hindsight that he didn't do any real research.
There are some half truths in what you/they said but it isn't really telling the whole story.
Snakes wrote: ↑Fri Jun 29, 2018 2:01 pm
That was more a Don thing than a Fosco thing, if I recall correctly. Although Fosco did say Giancana was boss until he died, which we know isn't true. I used to think the Don knew what he was talking about until I started doing more and more research on my own. He essentially fabricated things based on what he thought or what he wanted to believe. It's pretty clear in hindsight that he didn't do any real research.
There are some half truths in what you/they said but it isn't really telling the whole story.
Yes it wasn't that I believed it, but I considered it, and kept it in mind. That particular issue with Giancana being the Boss till he died has just been torn apart by source after source.
I understand your opinion fellas but please dont get carried away too much since during the 30s and 40s the Taylor St area was the so-called stronghold or central station for the Outfit, and while Ricca was alive, nothing ever happened to the high level west side guys and thats a fact, no matter who stated this or that. Later during the 60s the Melrose Park area became the so-called stronghold which later gave the birth to the Grand Av crew
Do not be deceived, neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God - Corinthians 6:9-10
Pete wrote: ↑Thu Jun 28, 2018 3:52 pm
For people mentioning age, in the outfit many guys killed when they were up there in years, Angelo lapietra and carlisi personally killed guys in their late 50’s, early 60’s, but I get the skepticism to me it always seemed blasi for sure did it.
That is true. In addition, it seemed like some of these Outfit guys actually ENJOYED being involved in the killing of someone. It's not like somebody had to bend their arm to be involved. It was almost like some of these guys may have volunteered to be involved in some of these murders, especially the torture murders. It wasn't "just business" like shooting a guy a couple of times and then hurrry up and get the fuck out of there. Strange.
Which is why it amazes me that Accardo called New York savages and themselves gentlemen. These Outfit guys were maniacs, even Puzo referred to as such in his novel.
Antiliar wrote: ↑Thu Jun 28, 2018 10:15 am
I asked Frank about this this morning. He told me, yes, Accardo personally pulled the trigger and that it was one of the murders declared solved at the Family Secrets trial. So, apparently the FBI has known about this for several years.
I’ve been quoting whilst reading this thread.
I thought this post was you taking the piss.
Then I get to page 4.
Holy shite buckets. You’re serious. And a serious researcher.
This is the biggest news since, well, the magic bullet, Hoffa, the moon landings, who was Jack the Ripper.... ETC ETC ETC!!!!
Umm, quick question, WHY THE FUCK, didn’t mister federali say anything when they found this out?! Hmmm!? Ummm, NOT A SMALL THING!
(PS Joe Batters would’ve been 69 when he pulled that trigger, fyi).
I’m off to check if this isn’t a dream and if it is, complain that it’s not a wet one, so far.
I actually contacted the FBI about this and sent in a request for information. We'll see what happens.
Snakes wrote: ↑Fri Jun 29, 2018 2:01 pm
That was more a Don thing than a Fosco thing, if I recall correctly. Although Fosco did say Giancana was boss until he died, which we know isn't true. I used to think the Don knew what he was talking about until I started doing more and more research on my own. He essentially fabricated things based on what he thought or what he wanted to believe. It's pretty clear in hindsight that he didn't do any real research.
There are some half truths in what you/they said but it isn't really telling the whole story.
Yes it wasn't that I believed it, but I considered it, and kept it in mind. That particular issue with Giancana being the Boss till he died has just been torn apart by source after source.
Giancana was finished in 1965. However, the West Faction still was as Villain stated "The Central Stronghold" with the South being second. The West just continued with Battaglia, then Cerone and then Auippa becoming the top day to day Bosses.. This was all done while Ricca was alive. The Taylor St. stronghold diminished somewhat because of Incarcerations and deaths. It was like a natural progression. Again, some of those guys were not entirely happy with Giancana while he was in power because of all the heat he brought down on the Outfit and the fact that he was gone quite a bit chasing Phyllis McGuire. Some of them might have been happy he was gone. There was no overthrow. There was no John Gotti in the Outfit. Anyway, that's my opinion.
Antiliar wrote: ↑Thu Jun 28, 2018 10:15 am
I asked Frank about this this morning. He told me, yes, Accardo personally pulled the trigger and that it was one of the murders declared solved at the Family Secrets trial. So, apparently the FBI has known about this for several years.
I’ve been quoting whilst reading this thread.
I thought this post was you taking the piss.
Then I get to page 4.
Holy shite buckets. You’re serious. And a serious researcher.
This is the biggest news since, well, the magic bullet, Hoffa, the moon landings, who was Jack the Ripper.... ETC ETC ETC!!!!
Umm, quick question, WHY THE FUCK, didn’t mister federali say anything when they found this out?! Hmmm!? Ummm, NOT A SMALL THING!
(PS Joe Batters would’ve been 69 when he pulled that trigger, fyi).
I’m off to check if this isn’t a dream and if it is, complain that it’s not a wet one, so far.
I actually contacted the FBI about this and sent in a request for information. We'll see what happens.
Snakes wrote: ↑Fri Jun 29, 2018 12:10 pm
You see how hard it is to request an unclassified file. The government isn't very forthcoming on releasing free information.
I don't think the Giancana and Roselli murders had anything to do with Kennedy. Giancana was holding back from the bosses and Roselli was expendable and couldn't keep his mouth shut.
Yes but how many people that followed current events and the Kennedy Assassination from back in those days still are under the assumption that alot of these things are all tied together. Well let's see where this info goes. It sounds like the Accardo being the killer is bullshit, and the Giancana hit being solved and closed as to who actually pulled the trigger also bullshit. The Accardo ordering the hit, because Giancana was holding back sounds like the real deal. Since Family Secrets I thought the Accardo ordering the hit because of Giancana holding back was basically the official reason for his killing.
Usually there’s not just one reason someone is killed but I agree a major part of the beef was all the money held back. Of course giancana basically being out of the outfit and called to testify was another source of worry on behalf of accardo and aiuppa. Who knows what he could say? He couldn’t be trusted anymore. Add on to that all the heat he brought on the outfit with his high profile lifestyle it’s not hard to figure out why he was clipped. Roselli and accardo had beef going back to the 20’z according to roselli. On top of that he was also testifying and he was loyal to sam. Accardo and aiuppa didn’t take any chances with questions of loyalty
I agree with phat,I love those old fucks and he's right.we all got some cosa nostra in us.I personnely love the life.I think we on the forum would be the ultimate crew! - camerono
So whats going to be our conclusion on this interesting subject....bullshit or should we wait for some extra files from that period which i personally believe aint going to.prove shit?
Do not be deceived, neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God - Corinthians 6:9-10
Interesting read! Thanks Snakes. Ferarro might have had a higher position of of authority, Pierce states that he was in on making the change from Accardo to Giancana as operations boss. The Alderisio as boss was mentioned again. Maybe he was boss for a very short period of time, either before Cerone or after Cerone. The 3 man ruling panel seemed to be formed after Ricca died. Aiuppa seems to have a position of authority, before the panel was formed.
