The Corporation

[outfit guy]

I can send you to the direct passage in the book with a Corporation lieutenant giving an ultimatum to Bonanno Family made member brothers. Wiretap source, not interview.

[outfit guy]

Great summary here in appeals document.
https://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-11th-cir ... 56007.html

[Wiseguy]

Great summary here in appeals document.
https://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-11th-cir ... 56007.html

Seems like the Corporation was in decline before the 2004 indictment came down.

[JIGGS]

All I see is the usual media bullshit man. Battle hides out in Peru and the line is... "The Corporation had interests in South America." If he had made a pit stop in Egypt, the line would be "Corporation have expanded their base of operations in the Middle East." Corporation didn't have anything anyone else making the same kind of loot had. And now he's a Colombian Cartel man. Everybody in the '70s or '80s was somehow connected to a Colombian cartel. Every unlicensed social club in the Bronx served up coke courtesy of the Cali Cartel.

Detective Perez was assigned to investigate Battle. Of course he's going to hype up Battle as being miles above Spanish Raymond. It makes the detective look good, and the investigation. What oughtta be noted is they're not mentioning any other bolita operator. It's Spanish Raymond who "The Corporation" is being measured against. And all the news articles of "The Corporation" are from the 1980s moving forward. With minute references to NYC, and more consistent activity in Jersey or Florida. They weren't on any NYPD radar in the 60s or 70s because they weren't a huge factor, if at all. And no offense to TJ English who I see is reading these messages but I take his "The Corporation was scary when they were around" with a grain of salt. He's promoting his book. They were so scary that indie parlors stood up to them and had to get firebombed. They were one of a bunch of entities active in numbers.

Do a search on Spanish Ray going back to the 1960s and you'll be reading the exact same language describing his operation as how they describe Battle's. In "Honor Thy Father" about the only valid thing Bill Bonanno described was the Puerto Rican numbers syndicate. "Spanish Raymond. And they don't kick up to anybody." Words to that effect. And they didn't. That went back to the father's era, Lionel Marquez. Since the 1930s there was a Marquez family game in NYC. Lionel and then his sons. They were entrenched as any outfit. Give the same scrutiny to Marquez you give Battle, and you'll see a much closer relationship to traditional O.C. than the Corporation. And a much longer trajectory even. Corporation is hype like the Westies was hype. All the media did was repeat the same line about the President's Commission on OC and Battle being in it, and the same 45 million a year figure. that was their selling point. What they describe as a "sophisticated operation" is your basic garden variety numbers racket. It's really not that sexy. And in my book too much detail being offered about a criminal network isn't a feather in their cap. I'm also 'meh' about that wiretap of Cubans threatening a Bonnano made guy or two. It's about as much of an impact as Gotti getting punched out by a shine in prison. How does the act itself impact LCN? Where are those Cubans on the wiretap now? I know where the Bonannos are. I can see 'em!

JIGGS

[JIGGS]

Great summary here in appeals document.
https://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-11th-cir ... 56007.html

This case or investigation is actually a much realistic scenario. I see some familiar names there. "Boo" Robinson, who was a Harlem guy. Pozo, who owned a social club on 3rd Avenue and 109th. He's still alive last I heard. His son took over for him and was still in the "business" when 9-11 went down. Anyways, what the case alludes to was that Battle was small potatoes in the 1970s:

"At Rydz's request that Battle, Sr. provide him some protection from rival bolita operators, Battle, Sr. agreed to merge Rydz's larger bolita operation into the Battles' smaller business. Battle, Sr. reorganized the Corporation, with Rydz, Battle, Jr., and Battle, Sr. each receiving sixteen percent of the profits as owners and Marquez being paid a percentage of the profits as a salary. The combined organization operated in Queens, the Bronx, Brooklyn, and portions of Manhattan."

And then it later alludes that things don't start to pick up steam until the 1990s, when they were making their most coin. See that makes sense to me. I don't have a fuckin axe to grind with the guy. But I'm just being honest. These guys were not big in the 60s or the 70s. Not big enough that their "presence" was felt. The Marquez bros. in the 1970s DOMINATED the bolita game in New York. Especially when the cops started looking the other way right when Ford told the city to go fuck itself. And he said it just like that too. Go fuck yourself. Fuckin Beame had to drink 3 brandys after that.

[JIGGS]

Great summary here in appeals document.
https://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-11th-cir ... 56007.html

This case or investigation is actually a much realistic scenario. I see some familiar names there. "Boo" Robinson, who was a Harlem guy. Pozo, who owned a social club on 3rd Avenue and 109th. He's still alive last I heard. His son took over for him and was still in the "business" when 9-11 went down. Anyways, what the case alludes to was that Battle was small potatoes in the 1970s:

"At Rydz's request that Battle, Sr. provide him some protection from rival bolita operators, Battle, Sr. agreed to merge Rydz's larger bolita operation into the Battles' smaller business. Battle, Sr. reorganized the Corporation, with Rydz, Battle, Jr., and Battle, Sr. each receiving sixteen percent of the profits as owners and Marquez being paid a percentage of the profits as a salary. The combined organization operated in Queens, the Bronx, Brooklyn, and portions of Manhattan."

And then it later alludes that things don't start to pick up steam until the 1990s, when they were making their most coin. See that makes sense to me. I don't have a fuckin axe to grind with the guy. But I'm just being honest. These guys were not big in the 60s or the 70s. Not big enough that their "presence" was felt. The Marquez bros. in the 1970s DOMINATED the bolita game in New York. Especially when the cops started looking the other way right when Ford told the city to go fuck itself. And he said it just like that too. Go fuck yourself. Fuckin Beame had to drink 3 brandys after that.

JIGGS

[outfit guy]

Thank you for all of the authentic street history. I do believe most all you're writing. There is no doubt in the 60s and 70s the Cubans - a consortium of Cuban boliteros - had a license to operate. The license was granted by Salerno to Battle. Salerno even assured Battle - upon his conviction for murder - that Battle's son and Rydz would not be encroached.
In the 1980s, Battle and the Corporation truly did come into their own. I do believe it a truly cohesive operation from the 60s through to the early 2000s. Not the Genovese Crime Family but an entity with a history and modus operandi - lawyers, payment plan for imprisoned personnel, armorers, S.S. squad, hitmen, etc. Specific roles and responsibilities.
Tell us more. Gorilla?

[outfit guy]

Video Introduction to the non-fiction book.

https://youtu.be/zl59EDcofxs

[outfit guy]

2.5 hours of the Corporation with Joe Rogan

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uui869yDoX0

[Wiseguy]

I got around to reading the book. A few things...


1. The book says the Harlem numbers racket was under the control of the Lucchese family. They made sure the Genovese family received their cut but otherwise the Luccheses were left alone to run things. I'm not sure how true that is and it contradicts, at least somewhat, other things I've read about the Genovese family being the main power there.


2. The book does a 180 on what has been reported before about the Luccheses having a turf war with La Compania (the Corporation offshoot). English says the Luccheses - through Hopkins - were partners with La Compania in the Harlem numbers racket. There comes a point where the "2 block rule" starts to be violated in parts of the city, the Italians and Cubans have several sitdowns (Fat Tony is the only Mafia name really mentioned but rather briefly), they accuse each other of different things, and then the war breaks out after the Acosta shooting. English says there were nearly 100 arsons between the competing sides but doesn't really go into much detail about this "war between the Corporation and the Mafia" that took place throughout New York City. And it's not clear if any connection between the Luccheses and La Compania extended beyond the partnership in Harlem. So how much was this really a war between the Cubans and Italians as opposed to a war between Cubans (Corporation) and Cubans (La Compania)? What Italian connection there was seemed to involve the Luccheses on a limited level, not the Genovese. So I'm not sure where the idea comes that both families were "firebombed out of the most lucrative Bolita operations in Harlem, Brooklyn, and the Bronx."


3. The book says Vincent and Benito Iadarola, the Italian numbers operators who received that phone threat from "Alex from the Corporation," were affiliated with the Luccheses. But a NY Times article says they operated under the protection of the Bonannos. In any event, English seems to use law enforcement pressure and the overall decline of the Mafia during the 1980s as the reason the Iadarolas "felt the heat" and "backed down." He then concludes that, "As far as the numbers racket was concerned, the Corporation in New York had overtaken whatever was left of La Cosa Nostra." Hyperbole, to say the least.


Other than all that, and referring to John Gotti as "capo di tutti capi," it was a decent read. Though I didn't think it was necessary to spend so much book space covering the Bay of Pigs and other Castro/Cuba stuff.

[outfit guy]

What did you make of Battle in general and his organization?

[Wiseguy]

What did you make of Battle in general and his organization?

Battle obviously had a head for organization and knew when he needed to make alliances. The Corporation lasted longer than a lot of non-Mafia crime groups in the U.S.

[bert]

I just started reading it. Looking through it I have to say TJ English is one of the best writers on organized crime. He does tons of research which he documents. He is also not worried about sticking to stereotypes, such as the mafia bossing everyone around. I never heard of Battle before, he sounds like an interesting and overlooked character. To me, Raab, Capeci, Anastasia, and the rest all just write the same stuff as each other. Patrick Downey is also pretty good, but not as serious as TJ English is. David Critchley did one great book but has not followed it up with more unfortunately.

[Bklyn21]

The corporation is still in existence, Spanish neighborhoods all over the city, Especially places like sunset park and Williamsburg and bronx neighborhoods you can walk into certain stores/Bodegas and sitting there right along with American and Spanish newspapers are Bolita forms which are like big brochures with all types of lottery games/Numbers, Sweepstakes games, And all forms of sports gambling included from soccer to ,Baseball, Football etc etc. They now make up a larger unified contingent of Dominicans, Cubans, And others. They are also the number one Hijackers of any and all types of freight from buildind supplies, Electronics, Liquor, Foods, Weapons and anything they can get they're hands on From shipping containers, Railcar/Railway freight, Truck hijacking and are highly sophosticated and operate all over the country . Hijacking of freight has fallen by the wayside when it comes to Lcn which is basically no longer existent . They are big into loansharking and money laundering and illegal check cashing businesses Mostly in they're communities and amongst other Hispanics and they have also made headway into the unions where there are now many Hispanic run construction outfits and coalitions. But no they are not bigger than Lcn . Problem with LE and arrests/Indictments is that these guys are largely not americanized and go by many different aliases and are hard to track down and have people turn witness against them so they fly way under the radar and off the grid

[Bklyn21]

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... owGRHQbguw. And this is just one of hundreds of Cuban , Dominican, Hispanic Cargo hijacking rings busted that are in operation throughout the US and Canada connected to the so called Cuban Mob, They Rob Tractor trailers, Railcars, Waterfront terminals and shipping containers etc etc. Where they the supply stores around the country with Stolen goods of every kind .