John DiFronzo

[Snakes]

I think that was more ANP lies. Villain, is there a Giancana file on MF where he mentions the ceremony as "silly" or for "boy scouts"?

It came from Roemer's F.B.I. recordings that he talked about in his book.

He only mentions the ceremony one time, on page 168. It says nothing about what Giancana thought of the ceremony.

[Confederate]

Which Book? I remember reading it in one of his books and maybe Villain can shed some light on it. I now only have the Genuine Godfather Book and on Page 168 they are talking about something completely different. I loaned the other book out on Spilotro and never got it back. LOL

[Snakes]

Man Against the Mob

[Antiliar]

regardless state or fed charges.... it's ridiculously low. in Mi you get 2 years AUTOMATICALLY for getting caught w a gun.

anyone else have anything to say on Roemer?? wasn't it a known thing he made stuff up??

and why are we going off the word Magnafichi said also when he under no obligation had to tell the truth?

The only time people are legally obligated to tell the truth is when they are under oath, either on the witness stand, under a deposition, or when signing a document. I can add when speaking with an FBI agent, but that's only selectively enforced. So the sources for going off the word of someone are very limited. FBI files contain information from informants who didn't have that obligation to tell the truth, and without them we would know a lot less than we do otherwise. And saw what you want about Magnafichi, he knows a lot more than most of us here.

As for Roemer, his biggest problems were being somewhat naive and jumping to conclusions. When he reported on things that happened he was pretty accurate. Vincent Inserra, who was his boss for a while, confirms most of what he wrote. When Roemer wrote that Ferriola was the boss of the Outfit before Carlisi, he wasn't lying about it and he didn't make it up. He got information from his informants, and in this instance they were wrong. Roemer believed them. Making a mistake doesn't mean he was being dishonest.

[Confederate]

Man Against the Mob

Roemer talking about Giancana thinking the Initition Ceremony was some silly grade school thing is in one of three books:
1). The Genuine Godfather
2). Man Against the Mob
3). The Enforcer
or
4). War of the Godfathers (But I doubt it was in this book)

I don't have the time or willpower to obtain all the books and go through it. LOL
Maybe somebody else will do it.

[Confederate]

regardless state or fed charges.... it's ridiculously low. in Mi you get 2 years AUTOMATICALLY for getting caught w a gun.

anyone else have anything to say on Roemer?? wasn't it a known thing he made stuff up??

and why are we going off the word Magnafichi said also when he under no obligation had to tell the truth?

The only time people are legally obligated to tell the truth is when they are under oath, either on the witness stand, under a deposition, or when signing a document. I can add when speaking with an FBI agent, but that's only selectively enforced. So the sources for going off the word of someone are very limited. FBI files contain information from informants who didn't have that obligation to tell the truth, and without them we would know a lot less than we do otherwise. And saw what you want about Magnafichi, he knows a lot more than most of us here.

As for Roemer, his biggest problems were being somewhat naive and jumping to conclusions. When he reported on things that happened he was pretty accurate. Vincent Inserra, who was his boss for a while, confirms most of what he wrote. When Roemer wrote that Ferriola was the boss of the Outfit before Carlisi, he wasn't lying about it and he didn't make it up. He got information from his informants, and in this instance they were wrong. Roemer believed them. Making a mistake doesn't mean he was being dishonest.

Correct. Perjury is rarely charged against someone testifying under oath unless the offense is egregious. It is exceptionally difficult to PROVE that a person intentionally lied. Usually their testimony is deemed non credible or the judge may possibly issue a sanction against the person.

[Villain]

Most of Giancanas alleged personal statements comes from Chuck Giancanas book.

And yeah he also completely deformed or accepted the already deformed style of inducting new members. The national CN books were closed at the time and so Chicago made their own choice or style of making new people

[Lupara]

Most of Giancanas alleged personal statements comes from Chuck Giancanas book.

And yeah he also completely deformed or accepted the already deformed style of inducting new members. The national CN books were closed at the time and so Chicago made their own choice or style of making new people

The books were closed in New York not necessarily in other parts of the country the way I understand it.

[Villain]

Most of Giancanas alleged personal statements comes from Chuck Giancanas book.

And yeah he also completely deformed or accepted the already deformed style of inducting new members. The national CN books were closed at the time and so Chicago made their own choice or style of making new people

The books were closed in New York not necessarily in other parts of the country the way I understand it.

Yeah but during the mid 70s we have Outfit members talking about opening books and new memberships. It seems that when the books were closed, the rest of the families such as the ones on the Midwest were left on their own to decide if they wanted to keep the tradition or not, which Giancana and the Outfit obviously chose not to. It seems also that the five fams were sort of a governing board around the country or central station regarding all traditional values

[Sam22]

Antiliar - Do you think Mags was maybe just protecting Marco? He came from the Elmwood park crew. What is the story he told you on why he was shelved ? From the old ANP site I got that he owed Joe Andriacci money from not operating his book like he should have. He stiffed Joey A and they shelved him. I am curious what else he had to say about other outfit members- Did he say Di Fronzo was made that Joey A was made or Ruddy Fratto? The only real LCN stories he told on ANP were about driving Cerone to meet big Paul in NY. Did Mags say he was made ? You could have gotten a wealth of info from him.

[Antiliar]

Antiliar - Do you think Mags was maybe just protecting Marco? He came from the Elmwood park crew. What is the story he told you on why he was shelved ? From the old ANP site I got that he owed Joe Andriacci money from not operating his book like he should have. He stiffed Joey A and they shelved him. I am curious what else he had to say about other outfit members- Did he say Di Fronzo was made that Joey A was made or Ruddy Fratto? The only real LCN stories he told on ANP were about driving Cerone to meet big Paul in NY. Did Mags say he was made ? You could have gotten a wealth of info from him.

Considering how he spoke about other people, no, I don't think he was protecting him. If he didn't want to talk about someone he would tell me. So I think he was honest. Yes, DiFronzo was made, so was Cerone and Fratto. That's all common knowledge anyways and was confirmed elsewhere. Mags didn't want to talk about his own ceremony or if he was made, so I didn't press him.

[Sam22]

Antiliar - Do you think Mags was maybe just protecting Marco? He came from the Elmwood park crew. What is the story he told you on why he was shelved ? From the old ANP site I got that he owed Joe Andriacci money from not operating his book like he should have. He stiffed Joey A and they shelved him. I am curious what else he had to say about other outfit members- Did he say Di Fronzo was made that Joey A was made or Ruddy Fratto? The only real LCN stories he told on ANP were about driving Cerone to meet big Paul in NY. Did Mags say he was made ? You could have gotten a wealth of info from him.

Considering how he spoke about other people, no, I don't think he was protecting him. If he didn't want to talk about someone he would tell me. So I think he was honest. Yes, DiFronzo was made, so was Cerone and Fratto. That's all common knowledge anyways and was confirmed elsewhere. Mags didn't want to talk about his own ceremony or if he was made, so I didn't press him.

Thank you for the reply. Did he have anything else to say about Joey A? To me his position has never really been clarified. I had heard north side boss , elmwood park, overall boss and underboss.

[Confederate]

Marco was still active when he got out of jail in 2005. Andriacchi was way in the background like DiFronzo. Marco was susceptible to a RICO indictment far more than Andriacchi or DiFronzo. Marco was out on the street seeing different people. Since Magnafichi said in the interview that he was very fond of Marco and was reluctant to talk about him, It makes perfect sense that if he were asked about him, he would say he was not a made guy.
Also, Why would Magnafichi say Marco was not made unless he was ASKED about it. If I had spoken to Magnafichi, I would have asked him WHY was Marco never made in your opinion. That would have been my first question. You see, A REASON was NEVER given which puts Magnafichi's motive in question. Also, if you read further, Fosco said the same thing but NEVER GAVE A REASON. I do think it is a good quality though in Magnafichi that he would want to protect people he thought treated him fairly so I'm not being critical of him at all. I just think based upon other evidence that these guys are PROGRAMMED to say things automatically to protect themselves and other people who may be susceptible to a RICO charge. My 2 cents.

[Snakes]

You're right, Antilliar was way over his head interviewing Magnafichi. I'm sure the guy with the rebel flag as his avatar would have conducted a much more professional and hard hitting interview.

[Confederate]

You're right, Antilliar was way over his head interviewing Magnafichi. I'm sure the guy with the rebel flag as his avatar would have conducted a much more professional and hard hitting interview.

No, I think the bleeding heart liberal unbiased moderator with no flag would have done the best.