Underboss/ consigliere

[slimshady_007]

Whats the difference between a mafia underboss and a consigliere? What is their day to day tasks for the don? Do certain families have different jobs for the UB and consigliere?

[eboli]

It depends. Traditionally the underboss role was the №2 role in the borgata. It was an official position for the boss' successor and was a position that ran the crime family day to day. In the modern mob the "street boss" has similar responsiblities, but overall is an unofficial/temporary position. The Chicago Outfit used the underboss position in a slightly different capacity.

Consigliere was an advisor role. More often than not older members of the crime family held it throughout history. Back in the day the idea was for the made guys to vote on who they want to represent them to the boss. Keep in mind that "officially" all made guys are equals. In theory the boss is equal to a soldier, de facto that was never the case. The consigliere can be the borgata representative on important cosa nostra meetings, messenger between familes, judge at sitdowns and other disputes. Overall his main job was to report and advise the boss on internal matters.

[slimshady_007]

It depends. Traditionally the underboss role was the №2 role in the borgata. It was an official position for the boss' successor and was a position that ran the crime family day to day. In the modern mob the "street boss" has similar responsiblities, but overall is an unofficial/temporary position. The Chicago Outfit used the underboss position in a slightly different capacity.

Consigliere was an advisor role. More often than not older members of the crime family held it throughout history. Back in the day the idea was for the made guys to vote on who they want to represent them to the boss. Keep in mind that "officially" all made guys are equals. In theory the boss is equal to a soldier, de facto that was never the case. The consigliere can be the borgata representative on important cosa nostra meetings, messenger between familes, judge at sitdowns and other disputes. Overall his main job was to report and advise the boss on internal matters.

Gr8 response man. So for instance, if two crews in the gambino’s are beefing over control of a racket it’s frank cali’s (who ive heard is the gambino consigliere) job to report to the don, Dom Cefalu, about the matter and advise him who he thinks deserves the racket? And would cali also be responsible for settin up a meeting between the wiseguys?

[eboli]

Gr8 response man. So for instance, if two crews in the gambino’s are beefing over control of a racket it’s frank cali’s (who ive heard is the gambino consigliere) job to report to the don, Dom Cefalu, about the matter and advise him who he thinks deserves the racket? And would cali also be responsible for settin up a meeting between the wiseguys?

The consigliere's role is that of a mediator, so he'll either resolve the situation himself or report it to the boss. As I said, that's the explanation in theory. That's how Joe Bonanno explained it is supposed to work.

The actual power and responsibilities of the consigliere vary from family to family. It's strictly dependent on the individual and in the modern mob it can overlap with the responsibilities of other unofficial administrative position like that of the street boss or/and a ruling panel.

[Angelo Santino]

Whats the difference between a mafia underboss and a consigliere? What is their day to day tasks for the don? Do certain families have different jobs for the UB and consigliere?

It varies depending on the era, Family, circumstances and individuals involved. The cookie cutter definition that most informants provide is that the Underboss is there to assist the Boss in the case of absence or death, the position always went by Vice-Capo or Vice-Rappresentante which adds credence to the definition. The Consigliere is there to mediate internal disputes as well as act as a sort of messenger with other Families.

But compare New York and Pittsburgh, Frank Martines, 1990's Philly and Neil Dellacroce, 1970's NYC; or Joe Accardo to Bobby Manna, etc. You will see wide derivations: Dellacroce headed his own faction, Martines was going on hits; Joe Accardo was viewed as the ultimate authority, Manna worked under the Chin.

It's an organic organization and things played out how they played out. When Gotti chose an underboss it came from a different Gambino faction than his own, rather than Ruggiero or Carneglia or whoever it was D'Amico then LoCascio then Gravano. Contrast that to Scarfo who chose Merlino and then his nephew Leonetti, over a Joe Ciangcaglini.

Lately, what I'm encountering with smaller families is that the these positions' functions are largely irrelevant. Take CL, Underboss Tony Milano does his own thing but essentially is similar to Scalish, makes money with his own group of contacts; it's Consigliere DeMarco who more or less functioned as the street boss and go to guy. This goes against the definitions I provided above but it does show the pecking order in it's correct place. If I were to do a 1-5 of high to least status it'd be Scalish then Milano then DeMarco and so forth down to Brancato and Licavoli.

[cavita]

One thing I’ve found in my Midwestern families research regarding the consigliere hierarchy is this interesting bit- in the mid 1960s Rockford LCN soldier Sebastian Gulotta called a meeting of the family at the Aragona Club where the LCN held weekly meetings. He told the family that his niece was employed by a local doctor and that this doctor had repeatedly hit on Gulotta’s niece but she refused his advances. The doctor then said he would fire the niece and make sure she never got another professional job in the Rockford area. When Gulotta went to the doctor to try and work things out, he became rude and insulting towards Gulotta. So Gulotta took this incident to the Rockford LCN for permission of some sorts to punish the doctor. Rockford LCN consigliere Joe Zito brushed it off and said that because of the doctor’s position in the Rockford community (I’m assuming because of this that the doctor was Italian) that he was entitled to a certain degree of respect from Gulotta. Rockford LCN Capo Lorenzo Buttice then interjected by taking Gulotta’s side and saying to Zito when the doctor “insulted Gulotta, he insulted you, he insulted me and he insulted every member of our family.” After this statement, Zito was forced to agree with Buttice according to their code of honor and apologized to Gulotta. This is a bit unique in the fact that the consigliere position is supposed to be in place as a non-biased voice of reason and Buttice, a capo, had to remind Zito of the mob’s “code of ethics.” Apparently here, the consigliere’s opinion was overruled in favor of a “panel decision.”

[FriendofHenry]

My personal experience with the Pittsburgh hierarchy was that Charlie Murgie, Consigliere, got a ton of respect from both Jo Jo Pecora, under-boss, and later to be named Boss, Michael Genovese. Both Jo Jo and Michael were on John LaRocca's advisory board and I'm sure that Michael was one of John's special guys even though John would have preferred Jo Jo as his successor. However Charlie always seemed to be the man. Go figure?

[richy67]

One thing I’ve found in my Midwestern families research regarding the consigliere hierarchy is this interesting bit- in the mid 1960s Rockford LCN soldier Sebastian Gulotta called a meeting of the family at the Aragona Club where the LCN held weekly meetings. He told the family that his niece was employed by a local doctor and that this doctor had repeatedly hit on Gulotta’s niece but she refused his advances. The doctor then said he would fire the niece and make sure she never got another professional job in the Rockford area. When Gulotta went to the doctor to try and work things out, he became rude and insulting towards Gulotta. So Gulotta took this incident to the Rockford LCN for permission of some sorts to punish the doctor. Rockford LCN consigliere Joe Zito brushed it off and said that because of the doctor’s position in the Rockford community (I’m assuming because of this that the doctor was Italian) that he was entitled to a certain degree of respect from Gulotta. Rockford LCN Capo Lorenzo Buttice then interjected by taking Gulotta’s side and saying to Zito when the doctor “insulted Gulotta, he insulted you, he insulted me and he insulted every member of our family.” After this statement, Zito was forced to agree with Buttice according to their code of honor and apologized to Gulotta. This is a bit unique in the fact that the consigliere position is supposed to be in place as a non-biased voice of reason and Buttice, a capo, had to remind Zito of the mob’s “code of ethics.” Apparently here, the consigliere’s opinion was overruled in favor of a “panel decision.”

what was the outcome?

[cavita]

One thing I’ve found in my Midwestern families research regarding the consigliere hierarchy is this interesting bit- in the mid 1960s Rockford LCN soldier Sebastian Gulotta called a meeting of the family at the Aragona Club where the LCN held weekly meetings. He told the family that his niece was employed by a local doctor and that this doctor had repeatedly hit on Gulotta’s niece but she refused his advances. The doctor then said he would fire the niece and make sure she never got another professional job in the Rockford area. When Gulotta went to the doctor to try and work things out, he became rude and insulting towards Gulotta. So Gulotta took this incident to the Rockford LCN for permission of some sorts to punish the doctor. Rockford LCN consigliere Joe Zito brushed it off and said that because of the doctor’s position in the Rockford community (I’m assuming because of this that the doctor was Italian) that he was entitled to a certain degree of respect from Gulotta. Rockford LCN Capo Lorenzo Buttice then interjected by taking Gulotta’s side and saying to Zito when the doctor “insulted Gulotta, he insulted you, he insulted me and he insulted every member of our family.” After this statement, Zito was forced to agree with Buttice according to their code of honor and apologized to Gulotta. This is a bit unique in the fact that the consigliere position is supposed to be in place as a non-biased voice of reason and Buttice, a capo, had to remind Zito of the mob’s “code of ethics.” Apparently here, the consigliere’s opinion was overruled in favor of a “panel decision.”

what was the outcome?

The file never told of an outcome, but after doing some digging I believe the doctor mentioned was Dr. August Zacharia. The reason why he may have been entitled to a “certain degree of respect” according to consigliere Joe Zito was that Zacharia’s brother-in-law was Joe Civello, the LCN boss of Dallas, Texas. Zacharia’s other brother-in-law was Frank Maragi, a highly-respected Rockford LCN associate and gambler, and Zacharia’s brother was another valued Rockford LCN associate, Anthony Zacharia. Additionally, Anthony Zacharia was also Sebastian Gulotta’s uncle, so this could very well have been another connection.

[richy67]

One thing I’ve found in my Midwestern families research regarding the consigliere hierarchy is this interesting bit- in the mid 1960s Rockford LCN soldier Sebastian Gulotta called a meeting of the family at the Aragona Club where the LCN held weekly meetings. He told the family that his niece was employed by a local doctor and that this doctor had repeatedly hit on Gulotta’s niece but she refused his advances. The doctor then said he would fire the niece and make sure she never got another professional job in the Rockford area. When Gulotta went to the doctor to try and work things out, he became rude and insulting towards Gulotta. So Gulotta took this incident to the Rockford LCN for permission of some sorts to punish the doctor. Rockford LCN consigliere Joe Zito brushed it off and said that because of the doctor’s position in the Rockford community (I’m assuming because of this that the doctor was Italian) that he was entitled to a certain degree of respect from Gulotta. Rockford LCN Capo Lorenzo Buttice then interjected by taking Gulotta’s side and saying to Zito when the doctor “insulted Gulotta, he insulted you, he insulted me and he insulted every member of our family.” After this statement, Zito was forced to agree with Buttice according to their code of honor and apologized to Gulotta. This is a bit unique in the fact that the consigliere position is supposed to be in place as a non-biased voice of reason and Buttice, a capo, had to remind Zito of the mob’s “code of ethics.” Apparently here, the consigliere’s opinion was overruled in favor of a “panel decision.”

what was the outcome?

The file never told of an outcome, but after doing some digging I believe the doctor mentioned was Dr. August Zacharia. The reason why he may have been entitled to a “certain degree of respect” according to consigliere Joe Zito was that Zacharia’s brother-in-law was Joe Civello, the LCN boss of Dallas, Texas. Zacharia’s other brother-in-law was Frank Maragi, a highly-respected Rockford LCN associate and gambler, and Zacharia’s brother was another valued Rockford LCN associate, Anthony Zacharia. Additionally, Anthony Zacharia was also Sebastian Gulotta’s uncle, so this could very well have been another connection.

aah I see,cheers.

[SILENT PARTNERZ]

One thing I’ve found in my Midwestern families research regarding the consigliere hierarchy is this interesting bit- in the mid 1960s Rockford LCN soldier Sebastian Gulotta called a meeting of the family at the Aragona Club where the LCN held weekly meetings. He told the family that his niece was employed by a local doctor and that this doctor had repeatedly hit on Gulotta’s niece but she refused his advances. The doctor then said he would fire the niece and make sure she never got another professional job in the Rockford area. When Gulotta went to the doctor to try and work things out, he became rude and insulting towards Gulotta. So Gulotta took this incident to the Rockford LCN for permission of some sorts to punish the doctor. Rockford LCN consigliere Joe Zito brushed it off and said that because of the doctor’s position in the Rockford community (I’m assuming because of this that the doctor was Italian) that he was entitled to a certain degree of respect from Gulotta. Rockford LCN Capo Lorenzo Buttice then interjected by taking Gulotta’s side and saying to Zito when the doctor “insulted Gulotta, he insulted you, he insulted me and he insulted every member of our family.” After this statement, Zito was forced to agree with Buttice according to their code of honor and apologized to Gulotta. This is a bit unique in the fact that the consigliere position is supposed to be in place as a non-biased voice of reason and Buttice, a capo, had to remind Zito of the mob’s “code of ethics.” Apparently here, the consigliere’s opinion was overruled in favor of a “panel decision.”

what was the outcome?

The file never told of an outcome, but after doing some digging I believe the doctor mentioned was Dr. August Zacharia. The reason why he may have been entitled to a “certain degree of respect” according to consigliere Joe Zito was that Zacharia’s brother-in-law was Joe Civello, the LCN boss of Dallas, Texas. Zacharia’s other brother-in-law was Frank Maragi, a highly-respected Rockford LCN associate and gambler, and Zacharia’s brother was another valued Rockford LCN associate, Anthony Zacharia. Additionally, Anthony Zacharia was also Sebastian Gulotta’s uncle, so this could very well have been another connection.

aah I see,cheers.

The doctor had a lot of close OC relations. Cool story, thanks.

[richy67]

Technicy still should the doc not at the very least get his balls toed for disrespecting a made members daughter. Especially as he wasnt made himself? Despite his connections.

[richy67]

Technically*

[cavita]

Technicy still should the doc not at the very least get his balls toed for disrespecting a made members daughter. Especially as he wasnt made himself? Despite his connections.

Yeah, hard to tell on this one. The doctor may have just been told to knock it off and give Gulotta's niece a raise for all anyone knows. As for the doctor, he died in a St. Louis hospital in 1969 after a short illness so apparently there was no physical retribution against him.

[B.]

One thing I’ve found in my Midwestern families research regarding the consigliere hierarchy is this interesting bit- in the mid 1960s Rockford LCN soldier Sebastian Gulotta called a meeting of the family at the Aragona Club where the LCN held weekly meetings. He told the family that his niece was employed by a local doctor and that this doctor had repeatedly hit on Gulotta’s niece but she refused his advances. The doctor then said he would fire the niece and make sure she never got another professional job in the Rockford area. When Gulotta went to the doctor to try and work things out, he became rude and insulting towards Gulotta. So Gulotta took this incident to the Rockford LCN for permission of some sorts to punish the doctor. Rockford LCN consigliere Joe Zito brushed it off and said that because of the doctor’s position in the Rockford community (I’m assuming because of this that the doctor was Italian) that he was entitled to a certain degree of respect from Gulotta. Rockford LCN Capo Lorenzo Buttice then interjected by taking Gulotta’s side and saying to Zito when the doctor “insulted Gulotta, he insulted you, he insulted me and he insulted every member of our family.” After this statement, Zito was forced to agree with Buttice according to their code of honor and apologized to Gulotta. This is a bit unique in the fact that the consigliere position is supposed to be in place as a non-biased voice of reason and Buttice, a capo, had to remind Zito of the mob’s “code of ethics.” Apparently here, the consigliere’s opinion was overruled in favor of a “panel decision.”

Very interesting, thanks for sharing.

In addition to what's already been said by everyone, both DiLeonardo and Cafaro, possibly along with other sources, have said the consigliere was a power in his own right, with at least one of them saying something along the lines of the consigliere being the most influential member of the family. Manna and later Ida of the Genovese were said by witnesses to have been the main go-between with other families and we know in Manna's case he was a key arbiter in Philly family affairs in the 1980s, so his power extended outside of NY/NJ.

Along with the consigliere originally being voted in by the membership and not simply chosen by the boss, it was also said that a consigliere couldn't become consigliere again if he stepped down from the position. We know of captains going up and down, but I'd be curious what examples we can come up with of bosses or underbosses who stepped down or were deposed who later stepped back up to the administration. Either way, the consigliere originally seems to have fit quite well with the way it's shown on some charts -- off to the side of the other admin rather than directly in the pyramid hierarchy under boss/underboss.

Later the consigliere seems to have become a defacto #3 named by the boss, though I can't think of any specific examples of a witness/informant talking directly about the boss saying "you're the consigliere" to someone in an NYC family. Leonetti talks about Scarfo offering the position of consiglire to his uncle Piccolo, and late 1970s tapes have the Philly underboss, a captain, and two soldiers complaining about how Angelo Bruno was keeping them out of the loop on replacing Joe Rugnetta as consigliere and how there used to be a vote; however, Harry Riccobene, who had been a member for 50 years by this time claims there had never been more than one candidate for the position during elections.

Keep in mind that the boss is supposed to be voted in as well, but we know of this election being rigged. I would assume given that this is the mafia the election of consigliere was possibly rigged or heavily "influenced" as well, with leaders arranging for a pre-selected candidate to be voted in. There is also the example of the Buffalo family, where Stefano Magaddino was recorded in the mid-1960s claiming he never had a consigliere in his family, though this looks to have changed shortly after the recording was made. I'd be curious what led to Buffalo finally adopting the position or if they had one pre-Magaddino for that matter.

Info is kind of murky on the consigliere position pre-1930s, too. We have one or two examples of consiglieres mentioned in NYC pre-1920s and not much, if anything, on the position outside of NYC before that time. There is of course some confusing/distorted info out there about the consigliere position being created after the Castellammarese War to advocate for the membership and solve disputes between/within families, with Valachi mentioned a vague "council" of consiglieres who settled intra-family disputes, but a lot of info about this plays into the Luciano myths. An early Sicilian informant talks about Sicilian families each having a consigliere but he doesn't mentioned the underboss position and what he says about consigliere makes it sound more like an underboss.

As for the underboss... along the lines of what Christie said, it varies. Sometimes an underboss is someone already very close to the boss who serves as their alter-ego (think Profaci/Magliocco); it could be the leader of a rival group designed to balance out the power (Gambino/Dellacroce); someone who is simply a power in their own right independent of rivalry or alliance with the boss (Tony Salerno, assuming he was in fact the underboss under Gigante); someone who is more or less the street boss of the family for an absentee boss (Salerno again could arguably fit, but thinking Reginelli under Ida in Philly as a great example). You also have the example in Philly where Ignazio Denaro was underboss in name only after being stripped of most of his influence for most of his time in the position.