Are the Bonnano's and Gambino's backing The Violi Hamilton Ndrangheta Clan in the Canada War?

[JeremyTheJew]

Naples is supposed to have biggest open air market. I don't know if that's for Italy or Europe tho.

i wonder if It's similar to any U.S. Ghetto where the drugs are. in search of drugs in New cities, usually u can ask where MLK ave is and there will 9 outta 10 times be able to drive down w ppl yelling what drugs they have. (assuming your white)

Is that how Naples is? minus the blacks

[SonnyBlackstein]

The 80s called. They want their view of the 5 families back.

[FriendofFamily]

The 80s called. They want their view of the 5 families back.

The 50's were better to them

[Lupara]

The 80s called. They want their view of the 5 families back.

[emoji38]

The 50's were better to them

They were much bigger in construction in the 80s. They still controlled major industries through the unions. I think the only difference is LE scrutiny. The real downfall started in the 90s.

[Lupara]

One thing I found interesting is how this was pretty much spelled out by the feds in a few press releases, including the one below that refers to the "Rizzuto and Bonanno crime families" (i.e. differentiating between the two), and how much of the drugs coming from Canada in this operation were distributed by the Bonannos in New York (i.e. business relationship continues even if formal affiliation doesn't).

https://www.justice.gov/usao-edny/pr/al ... prisonment

Are there any earlier indictments/press releases in which they differentiate between these two groups? This one is from 2014.

[Wiseguy]

One thing I found interesting is how this was pretty much spelled out by the feds in a few press releases, including the one below that refers to the "Rizzuto and Bonanno crime families" (i.e. differentiating between the two), and how much of the drugs coming from Canada in this operation were distributed by the Bonannos in New York (i.e. business relationship continues even if formal affiliation doesn't).

https://www.justice.gov/usao-edny/pr/al ... prisonment

Are there any earlier indictments/press releases in which they differentiate between these two groups? This one is from 2014.

Not that I've seen.

[maninblack]

@wiseguy

I think this is where there is a DEEP disconnect on the forums. I don't think there WAS any formal affiliation, I think the Rizzutos being " initiated" into the Bonnano family was PART OF THE NARCOTICS- BUSINESS ACCORD.

(The Sicilian families organize the supply end, the Gambino and Bonnano families have a " distribution contract" if you want to call it that.)

You could say it was the Bonnanos way of guaranteeing their share of the operation. As well as allowing the Rizzutos free reign to deal with American wise guys on even footing. I don't think it's that much different than Rosario Naimo being made into the Luchesses. He was STILL an agent of the Sicilian mafia, him being made is something of a political move.

This was something they went in depth in the Sixth Family. How the issue of dual membership, was getting to be, really kinda bad for business. The question of, if a guy Is already made and respected in Italy, does it carry over and vice versa.


I've said it a few times, even in one of felices threads. The Bonnanos came into play, ONCE THE DRUGS GET TO NYC. They are the privileged buyers, like they probably get first call on the sales, and if not consignment, a VERY GOOD PRICE.

But that money better come back up to the suppliers, or else you end up like Sonny Red. Or Galante.


There is a passage in the Sixth Family, where they describe how Rizzuto made Narcotics orders. They said he NEVER used his own money, and he only put in an order for a shipment when a certain amount of individual orders came in. Now in the book they made it seem like this was some kinda genius move, when in fact it's been standard operating procedure for the drug trade since forever. It's always been a consortium, functioning like a joint stock company, it was the same with tobacco trade as well. Those orders were from Sicilian mafia families investing in the drug trade, maybe other crime groups too like the Hells. This is when I realized like.." Okay, so he doesn't OWN the shipments..hmmmm". But he did start to create his OWN connects, OUTSIDE THE MAFIA, like the Big Circle boys, the hash merchants..I think the real problem was that Rizzuto was starting to RIVAL the Caruana - Cuntrera clan. The family that controlled the drug trade for the Sicilian mafia for decades, both supply and laundering. I'm convinced they went along with it.

The thing is the Bonnano crew in Canada was the Cotroni organization right? I think it's safe to say they NEVER controlled the Rizzutos. They were NEVER really the same organization', I mean is this a wrong conclusion?

The Gambinos seem to be the family with the connections, the Bonnanos with the guys in NYC ready to move the shit, the Canadians are the bridge, kept the supply coming and made sure the money came back. Interesting thing though... Excluding Pasquale Conte, it seems NO American made Gambinos were allowed to OFFICIALLY deal. They seem to prefer " subcontracting" this work out to either autonomously operated, Sicilian crews SENT over here, or guys like Raffaelle Valenti and this Francesco Palmeri who was " authorized to have his own network"...

Honestly I could go on and on about this subject, but LETS TALK ABOUT IT. Like a for real discussion instead of just arguments and " NO YOU ARE WRONG YOU FANBOY, LOL"

I'd like to hear everyone's take on it before I post again.....

Yeah this is how I feel. I think now with Canada being so strong instead of being a part of the Bonanno''s theyr're the ones who are supplying the NY families now. My question is who was the Rizzuto's connect like when they placed an order for a shipment did they get it from Sicily or Mexico or where. Cause I remember seeing in a documentary that in the 70's the Rizzuto's went to Venezuela to work on their drug pipeline

[Wiseguy]

The 80s called. They want their view of the 5 families back.

[emoji38]

The 50's were better to them

They were much bigger in construction in the 80s. They still controlled major industries through the unions. I think the only difference is LE scrutiny. The real downfall started in the 90s.

The difference is, while the NY families no longer have the control of those industries they did going into the 1990s, they still have varying degrees of involvement in several of them. I would contend that that labor/business racketeering is still a core racket and major money-maker for them. And I absolutely believe when people make comparisons between the two, they tend to overstate Montreal/GTA and underrate New York.

[UTC]

What would you say is the basis of your contending that labor racketeering is a core racket? Because dealing day to day with people in labor relations in the NY area, comprising a number of unions, no one else thinks that. Not to say it's completely non-existent.

[dixiemafia]

Cabrini I agree, I'd say it was a safe bet that the Rizzuto's NEVER fell in line with the Cotroni faction. Of course we all know the story where they wanted to kill Nicolo and basically had their hands tied behind their back when it came to him.

[Lupara]

Not that I've seen.

I've been speculating that the Rizzuto group was recognised as its own in 2012 when Vito was released.

You as our walking encyclopedia on all official documents, was Montreal still described as being the Canadian Bonanno faction by the feds in older indictments, but after 2000?

[Lupara]

The 80s called. They want their view of the 5 families back.

[emoji38]

The 50's were better to them

They were much bigger in construction in the 80s. They still controlled major industries through the unions. I think the only difference is LE scrutiny. The real downfall started in the 90s.

The difference is, while the NY families no longer have the control of those industries they did going into the 1990s, they still have varying degrees of involvement in several of them. I would contend that that labor/business racketeering is still a core racket and major money-maker for them. And I absolutely believe when people make comparisons between the two, they tend to overstate Montreal/GTA and underrate New York.

Agreed.

And Canada supplying the NY families makes very little sense given the fact that most of the dope coming in from the South, not the North. Perhaps some xtc and heroin from Europe but the heroin days for the Five Families are over.

I think the ndrangheta families supply some of the individuals within the NY families who are involved in drugs, but not from Canada. These ndrangheta families have their own people in New York who get the dope from South America and then distribute it to other groups.

At this point both the Bonannos and Montreal have little to offer to each other so there is little for them to stay attached.

[maninblack]

The 80s called. They want their view of the 5 families back.

[emoji38]

The 50's were better to them

They were much bigger in construction in the 80s. They still controlled major industries through the unions. I think the only difference is LE scrutiny. The real downfall started in the 90s.

The difference is, while the NY families no longer have the control of those industries they did going into the 1990s, they still have varying degrees of involvement in several of them. I would contend that that labor/business racketeering is still a core racket and major money-maker for them. And I absolutely believe when people make comparisons between the two, they tend to overstate Montreal/GTA and underrate New York.

Agreed.

And Canada supplying the NY families makes very little sense given the fact that most of the dope coming in from the South, not the North. Perhaps some xtc and heroin from Europe but the heroin days for the Five Families are over.

I think the ndrangheta families supply some of the individuals within the NY families who are involved in drugs, but not from Canada. These ndrangheta families have their own people in New York who get the dope from South America and then distribute it to other groups.

At this point both the Bonannos and Montreal have little to offer to each other so there is little for them to stay attached.

No way I agee with you on Canada not supplying to anyone. Its definitely true the Ndrangheta supply at least the Gambino family but Canada is so much of an easier border to traffic into U.S.vs Mexico and the mob families in Canada traffic tons of drugs into the U.S. so they gotta be going to somebody all the wars in Canada over the past decade have been over drug trafficking. Pretty much all coke and a little fentanyl. To me the fact that Sal Montagna was the acting boss of the Rizzuto's then got deported to Canada and tried to team up with the Ndrangheta there to take out the Rizzuto family while Vito was away makes it possible The Bonnanos backed the Ndrangheta in taking out the Rizzuto organization. When Vito got out of prison in 2012 one of the first things he did is have a meeting with The New York families. Interesting article I think they even said it was a commission type meeting

[SonnyBlackstein]

When Vito got out of prison in 2012 one of the first things he did is have a meeting with The New York families. Interesting article I think they even said it was a commission type meeting

Do you have the article please?



Regarding current affiliation/interaction between 'The Rizzuto's' and 'NY', it appears there could be relationships/interaction involving the Gambinos and the Bonannos. As to what extent, I dont think we know.

What is certain though is that the port of Montreal is a major drug importation pipeline and that a large percentage, if not a majority, would head south upon arrival.

[Wiseguy]

Hollander keeps the Camorra posts pretty steady on BB and there is ongoing fighting weekly shootings sometimes daily. happens enough where they can almost be compared to US bloods and crips fighting for drug turf.

Is that how Ndrangheta is as well?

According to Saviano, the Camorra clans in Naples are very "gang like," fighting over drug turf, lots of murders. The clans in the outer part of the region, like the Casalesi, are more like the Ndrangheta and Cosa Nostra clans.

What would you say is the basis of your contending that labor racketeering is a core racket? Because dealing day to day with people in labor relations in the NY area, comprising a number of unions, no one else thinks that. Not to say it's completely non-existent.

I think we are all in agreement that labor racketeering by the New York LCN has decreased. However, while I've said they no longer have the control of unions and industries they once had, I don't think it's diminished to the point I would no longer consider labor/business racketeering a core racket for them. Indictments, reports, etc have continued to show this.

For example, we saw repeated waterfront indictments of several ILA locals from 2000-2005, as well as 2008 and 2010/2011; including a failed effort by the federal government to take over the ILA because of ongoing mob infiltration. These cases, as well as various articles and a report included examples of mobsters and their friends and family having high-paying union jobs, kickbacks from other ILA members for jobs, overtime, etc., extortion of waterfront companies, etc.

We saw cases of the mob's ongoing involvement in waste hauling, recycling, and illegal dumping in 2003, 2004, 2008, 2013, 2016, as well as reports by New Jersey authorities of ongoing mob involvement in 2011 and 2017.

Most of all we've seen ongoing cases involving various unions involved in the construction industry (and related things like demolition and trucking) which the mob has been most successful at maintaining a presence. Several LIUNA locals at different points from 2000 to 2016.The Carpenters Union at different points from 2000 to at least 2009. The Roofers Union in 2000 and 2004. Elevator Constructors in 2002. Plasterers & Cement Masons in 2004. Operating Engineers in 2003, 2004, and 2006. Journeymen & Allied Trades in 2012. The charges involved the usual, i.e. extortion, sweetheart deals, no-show jobs, bid-rigging, bribery of Building Dept inspectors, etc. We've also seen some IBT locals pop up now and again.

Additionally, we have seen cases involving the mob and various miscellaneous locals. Allied Novelty & Production in 2003 and 2015. Bakery, Confectionery, & Tobacco Workers in 2006. Production, Clerical, & Public Employees in 2007. The Newspaper union in 2010 and 2014. Food & Commercial Workers in 2000, 2005, 2011, and 2018.

On top of all that, when different FBI officials, prosecutors, or journalists have been interviewed about the modern-day mob in New York, they have often listed infiltration of organized labor as one of the staples along side gambling, loansharking, extortion, and drug trafficking, etc.

Anyway, your post is reminiscent of a poster on the RD forum years ago who went by the name "blindman." He also said he had been involved in the unions and labor relations in New York for years and was always claiming mob labor racketeering was all but gone. He was either unaware of ongoing mob cases that said otherwise or he would try to dismiss them when presented with examples. I remember towards the end, shortly before he stopped posting, he got his panties in a bunch when I mentioned ongoing mob control of the New Jersey waterfront and asked me what my basis for that was. Not only were there several examples up to that point but, ironically enough, another case came down a week or two after he made that challenge. Didn't hear from him after that.

Not that I've seen.

I've been speculating that the Rizzuto group was recognised as its own in 2012 when Vito was released.

You as our walking encyclopedia on all official documents, was Montreal still described as being the Canadian Bonanno faction by the feds in older indictments, but after 2000?

It's hard to tell. We've all read about a break happening after Sciascia was killed in 1999, though exactly how strong the connection was up to that point is questionable. But we saw Vito Rizzuto indicted as a Bonanno soldier in 2004.

Agreed.

And Canada supplying the NY families makes very little sense given the fact that most of the dope coming in from the South, not the North. Perhaps some xtc and heroin from Europe but the heroin days for the Five Families are over.

I think the ndrangheta families supply some of the individuals within the NY families who are involved in drugs, but not from Canada. These ndrangheta families have their own people in New York who get the dope from South America and then distribute it to other groups.

At this point both the Bonannos and Montreal have little to offer to each other so there is little for them to stay attached.

Marijuana was certainly coming across the border from Canada to the NY families. Different examples of this. But, as the case I posted the link above showed, the cocaine obtained by the Canadian side (from marijuana profits) was for distribution on that side of the border. And mob heroin cases, wherever it's coming from, are few and far between. So, yeah, that's almost a moot point.

No way I agee with you on Canada not supplying to anyone. Its definitely true the Ndrangheta supply at least the Gambino family but Canada is so much of an easier border to traffic into U.S.vs Mexico and the mob families in Canada traffic tons of drugs into the U.S. so they gotta be going to somebody all the wars in Canada over the past decade have been over drug trafficking. Pretty much all coke and a little fentanyl. To me the fact that Sal Montagna was the acting boss of the Rizzuto's then got deported to Canada and tried to team up with the Ndrangheta there to take out the Rizzuto family while Vito was away makes it possible The Bonnanos backed the Ndrangheta in taking out the Rizzuto organization. When Vito got out of prison in 2012 one of the first things he did is have a meeting with The New York families. Interesting article I think they even said it was a commission type meeting

We know Montagna, who was Bonanno acting boss before being deported, teamed up with Desjardines as a breakaway faction against the Rizzutos. I've seen articles that said they were backed by the Ndrangheta, though specifics are hard to come by. Maybe I'm forgetting something but where do you get that the Bonannos (as a whole) backed the Ndrangheta against the Rizzutos? And I would also like to see where it was said Rizzuto met with the NY families after his release.

What is certain though is that the port of Montreal is a major drug importation pipeline and that a large percentage, if not a majority, would head south upon arrival.

The majority of those drugs coming into the port of Montreal heading south seems to be an assumption many have but I don't see a lot of evidence for that. On the contrary, it seems most Montreal mob drug cases (and the subsequent wars) we've seen have involved distribution there much more than what gets smuggled across the border.