General Mob Questions

[gohnjotti]

When do you say illegal Gambling, which games do you refer to specifically?

Cards, sports, etc.

Like Poker and blackjack right? Thanks!!!

I didn't have a specific game in mind. Poker, dice, blackjack, baccarat. Whatever works.

[aleksandrored]

When do you say illegal Gambling, which games do you refer to specifically?

Cards, sports, etc.

Like Poker and blackjack right? Thanks!!!

I didn't have a specific game in mind. Poker, dice, blackjack, baccarat. Whatever works.

I got it, thank you, dude.

[SonnyBlackstein]

JD has a new Bio:

http://lcnbios.blogspot.ca/

[richy67]

alright troops

fisrt time poster from Glasgow, Scotland with a great interest in the subject. first question is mainly for the new York team, whats it like on the ground these days i.e mob presence, obviously its no like the old days when the social clubs all had guys hanging about every day and night, but is there still a feel of a neighbourhood where the mob are still on the street looking after things? for example folks wouldn't call the coppers if something happened etc, theyd call someone connected and get it sorted?

2nd is does anyone have a more or less definitive list of how many made guys there were in the families in the peak times like the 60/70s and through to now? seen various different numbers on different articles and sources but would be interesting to know exactly, even showing a decline through the late 80s and early 90s etc

cheers, richy.

[willychichi]

alright troops

fisrt time poster from Glasgow, Scotland with a great interest in the subject. first question is mainly for the new York team, whats it like on the ground these days i.e mob presence, obviously its no like the old days when the social clubs all had guys hanging about every day and night, but is there still a feel of a neighbourhood where the mob are still on the street looking after things? for example folks wouldn't call the coppers if something happened etc, theyd call someone connected and get it sorted?

2nd is does anyone have a more or less definitive list of how many made guys there were in the families in the peak times like the 60/70s and through to now? seen various different numbers on different articles and sources but would be interesting to know exactly, even showing a decline through the late 80s and early 90s etc

cheers, richy.

Welcome to TBH richy. Here's a link to a site where you can get a general idea of the families numbers of made guys over the years. There are many very knowledgeable posters on here that can give you some great insights into your questions on what it looks like on the ground in NYC today and how many made guys over the years.

Just click on the family you want to get some numbers for on the lower right of the page
http://mafiamembershipcharts.blogspot.com/

[richy67]

Magic, cheers mate.

[slimshady_007]

Visited suspected mobbed up resturant marco polo today. Amazing service and the food was great. Think i saw jojo corozzo near the place but i could b wrong. Dont be spooked by the shit about the shooting that happened in February. Def worth a visit.

[Neptune333]

Hi, I don't know if this is the right place to post this but I was just wondering if anyone knew where I could get information on the logistical side of the mafia. I'm building a detailed fictional world and I want to create some crime syndicates so I need a realistic framework to base them on. There's plenty of lists of capos, soldiers and associates, alot of history and focus on individual members, but beyond that there seems to be very little info on the actual operation of the organizations anywhere on the internet. The scant amount of info I do find on the internet are small fragmented bits that span different time periods/famalies/geographic locations, and are hence useless for my purposes.
It doesn't seem to matter what I search for I can't find a single cohesive source on the internet that has even a basic outline of what it takes to run these operations. Examples of the info I'm looking for:
-The estimated amount of money the family generates and the percentage of that money that goes toward paying the members.
-The various sectors of control or territory in a city (Like an overlay for a map of NYC that outlines the different turfs of the 5 families)
-The various industries / businesses it is involved in and the number of members assigned to each industry or purpose (whether legal or illegal)
-The number and type of establishments owned. (How many strip clubs, restaurants, casinos, ect.)
-More details about associates. Not just the names and occupations but HOW and WHY they are connected to the mob. (Taking bribes, laundering money). As well as how much they get paid for cooperating.
I just need one example of each for the same geographical area and time period. Preferably more modern examples (80's 90's) so I don't have to worry about major discrepancies between population density/money inflation/infrastructure, ect. of the old world versus today. The particular family or who the acting boss is does not necessarily matter. I do realize that I could probably gather this information eventually on my own if I read 15-20 books on a single crime family, but I don't have the time or money to do that. I don't expect anyone else to do my research for me but if anyone knows anything off the top of their head or could offer some links (on this site or elsewhere) or even some good books that would have the required information it would be greatly appreciated.

[Raven]

Hi, I don't know if this is the right place to post this but I was just wondering if anyone knew where I could get information on the logistical side of the mafia. I'm building a detailed fictional world and I want to create some crime syndicates so I need a realistic framework to base them on. There's plenty of lists of capos, soldiers and associates, alot of history and focus on individual members, but beyond that there seems to be very little info on the actual operation of the organizations anywhere on the internet. The scant amount of info I do find on the internet are small fragmented bits that span different time periods/famalies/geographic locations, and are hence useless for my purposes.
It doesn't seem to matter what I search for I can't find a single cohesive source on the internet that has even a basic outline of what it takes to run these operations. Examples of the info I'm looking for:
-The estimated amount of money the family generates and the percentage of that money that goes toward paying the members.
-The various sectors of control or territory in a city (Like an overlay for a map of NYC that outlines the different turfs of the 5 families)
-The various industries / businesses it is involved in and the number of members assigned to each industry or purpose (whether legal or illegal)
-The number and type of establishments owned. (How many strip clubs, restaurants, casinos, ect.)
-More details about associates. Not just the names and occupations but HOW and WHY they are connected to the mob. (Taking bribes, laundering money). As well as how much they get paid for cooperating.
I just need one example of each for the same geographical area and time period. Preferably more modern examples (80's 90's) so I don't have to worry about major discrepancies between population density/money inflation/infrastructure, ect. of the old world versus today. The particular family or who the acting boss is does not necessarily matter. I do realize that I could probably gather this information eventually on my own if I read 15-20 books on a single crime family, but I don't have the time or money to do that. I don't expect anyone else to do my research for me but if anyone knows anything off the top of their head or could offer some links (on this site or elsewhere) or even some good books that would have the required information it would be greatly appreciated.

Your building a fictional world? Are you writing a novel or something? If it is fictional just make it up.

[Neptune333]

[/quote]

Your building a fictional world? Are you writing a novel or something? If it is fictional just make it up.
[/quote]

No it's a detailed, realistic game world with a functioning economy. So I can't just make stuff up it has to actually make sense. I'm surprised nobody cares about this kind of stuff I actually find it interesting. Oh well...

[gohnjotti]

Neptune, it’s a common misconception that soldiers and associates are directly paid by the family as if the family is a company. Money flows UPWARDS, not downwards. That is why the boss is such a coveted position. If a soldier is a capo’s full time driver or whatever than that’s a different story. But generally, soldiers have all of their rackets going under the umbrella of their capo. They often partner with other wiseguys or inherit rackets from deceased or imprisoned wiseguys, especially guys in their crew. They have to kick up a certain amount to their capo - the exact amount is based on a whole lot of different factors - who then kicks upwards to the boss or underboss.

[Confederate]

Neptune, it’s a common misconception that soldiers and associates are directly paid by the family as if the family is a company. Money flows UPWARDS, not downwards. That is why the boss is such a coveted position. If a soldier is a capo’s full time driver or whatever than that’s a different story. But generally, soldiers have all of their rackets going under the umbrella of their capo. They often partner with other wiseguys or inherit rackets from deceased or imprisoned wiseguys, especially guys in their crew. They have to kick up a certain amount to their capo - the exact amount is based on a whole lot of different factors - who then kicks upwards to the boss or underboss.

Exactly Correct. It's organized extortion and in return for the extortion kick up, the soldiers get the rights to operate and use the full contacts and benefits of the Family.

[Raven]

Didn't mean to give the impression that I don't care, I just think it is going to be hard to get that exact info because it varies so much. I would be interested to hear more about your game.

[gohnjotti]

Hi, I don't know if this is the right place to post this but I was just wondering if anyone knew where I could get information on the logistical side of the mafia. I'm building a detailed fictional world and I want to create some crime syndicates so I need a realistic framework to base them on. There's plenty of lists of capos, soldiers and associates, alot of history and focus on individual members, but beyond that there seems to be very little info on the actual operation of the organizations anywhere on the internet. The scant amount of info I do find on the internet are small fragmented bits that span different time periods/famalies/geographic locations, and are hence useless for my purposes.
It doesn't seem to matter what I search for I can't find a single cohesive source on the internet that has even a basic outline of what it takes to run these operations. Examples of the info I'm looking for:
-The estimated amount of money the family generates and the percentage of that money that goes toward paying the members.

It's really anyone's guess how much a family generates since most money isn't tracked by the IRS in any sort of coherent way. But the family itself does not make money like a corporation does. Each individual member earns money through various crimes. Bread-and-butter crimes are organizing illegal gambling, loansharking, hijacking, union corruption etc. And like I said before, soldiers generally aren't on a payroll by the family and instead have to kick their money upwards to their captains.

-The various sectors of control or territory in a city (Like an overlay for a map of NYC that outlines the different turfs of the 5 families)

The family is not really divided into territories. In the current day, pretty much every family operates in all five boroughs of New York, through different crews, with the exception of the Colombos. They overlap with eachother. If you look at this map made by Yates on this forum viewtopic.php?f=29&t=2853, you'll see that at the mob's peak, there were blocks in Manhattan and Bensonhurst that were chock full of social clubs from all different families.
However, there are certainly territories for different rackets run by different crews. Gambling especially. We've seen in the past that there are turf wars over where bookmaking and card games are handled. A recent example is Big Anthony Russo, who beat the shit out of some rival gambling operators and prepared himself for warfare. In that same indictment, Fat Dennis DeLucia expanded his operations into the Bronx and began extorting rival bookies for operating on what he called his "turf." This is the same for drugs, and other area-based rackets.

-The various industries / businesses it is involved in and the number of members assigned to each industry or purpose (whether legal or illegal)

Speaking about current day/past few decades:
Illegal gambling - Bookmaking, card games, etc. are all staples of every mob family in New York.
Loansharking - This builds off illegal gambling although illegal gambling is not a prerequisite.
Unions - Despite the FBI's scrutiny of union corruption, the Mafia over the past few decades has still maintained control over select unions. They rig elections, inflate building costs, bribe union officials, give out no-show jobs to their friends and associates, use union pension fund money to fund loansharking, extort contractors, etc. All five families are involved in this to some extent, with the Bonanno family being the lesser of the five throughout history.
Drugs - A big one, especially in recent years. Any drug you can get your hands on. Weed, coke, heroin (read up on the Pizza Connection), and in recent years, fentanyl, prescription pills, etc. The mob also has a hand in shaking down independent drug dealers.
Extortion - Some small businesses are shaken down for a cut of their earnings, although this doesn't happen so much nowadays. But yeah, anything the mob can extort, they will.
Infiltration of Legitimate Businesses and Bribery - Ties into the unions along with other businesses. The mob often finds it very easy to slide into legitimate businesses with ease because of family connections, loans, or plain-old extortion.
Stock fraud - This was huge in the 1990s. Pump-and-dump schemes, telemarketing fraud, etc. The mob can muscle in on a small brokerage firm or whatever and force them to pump and dump stocks or straight up scam consumers.
Pornography/Prostitution - Not very big in the mafia. It's not very big now, and it wasn't in the past.
Anything I missed?

-The number and type of establishments owned. (How many strip clubs, restaurants, casinos, ect.)

That's anyone's guess. It's very common for mobsters to be silent partners in all sorts of bars and restaurants. Strip clubs are, yes, still a thing that mobsters like to run. Mobsters like to dip their beaks in any and all legitimate businesses but don't like declaring it on paper.

-More details about associates. Not just the names and occupations but HOW and WHY they are connected to the mob. (Taking bribes, laundering money). As well as how much they get paid for cooperating.

An associate is not a formal position and is therefore not on any sort of formal payroll. An associate is generally a young aspiring wiseguy who is "on-record" with a soldier or captain, and one day hopes to be inducted into the family. If an associate is not Italian, but is still a great earner or shooter, he can attain a pretty high rank in the family nevertheless. An associate can also be someone who takes bribes in the unions or is a drug dealer for a soldier. Essentially, an associate is anyone who goes "on-record" with a wiseguy. This means that if this associate is bullied around by other wiseguys, or is shaken down by other wiseguys, he can call on his friend whom he is "on-record" with to back him up.

I just need one example of each for the same geographical area and time period. Preferably more modern examples (80's 90's) so I don't have to worry about major discrepancies between population density/money inflation/infrastructure, ect. of the old world versus today. The particular family or who the acting boss is does not necessarily matter. I do realize that I could probably gather this information eventually on my own if I read 15-20 books on a single crime family, but I don't have the time or money to do that. I don't expect anyone else to do my research for me but if anyone knows anything off the top of their head or could offer some links (on this site or elsewhere) or even some good books that would have the required information it would be greatly appreciated.

Pretty much all of my examples are modern day.

I hope that helped.

[richy67]

gohnjotti - out of interest, what do you mean about the columbos, how do they not have crews in all 5 boroughs. not enough members?