former LCN boss who "talked"

[Frank]

Good article, I liked it a lot, it's interesting to see that Vito Genovese ended up not being the only boss that harmed LCN in the 60s decade, I hope one day will be revealed the reasons that led him to do this, since at that time the Omerta was strong .

Genovese was a rat? Never heard that before.

[HairyKnuckles]

Nice work Ed!

[B.]

Excellent article. Would love to know what else is hidden in his files.

[felice]

Great work Ed, congratulations

[aleksandrored]

Good article, I liked it a lot, it's interesting to see that Vito Genovese ended up not being the only boss that harmed LCN in the 60s decade, I hope one day will be revealed the reasons that led him to do this, since at that time the Omerta was strong .

Genovese was a rat? Never heard that before.

No, I wanted to refer to the fact that Genovese harmed LCN with his attitudes in 1957, and it was because of him that Joe Valachi became an informant.

[Ed]

Thanks Chris.

In the available files, he just mentions that his uncle was a member and that he was dead. I don't know if it's a coincidence, but Lima began to cooperate in 1965, the same year his uncle died.(assuming limey's dates are correct).

From the best I can tell, he doesn't mention anything about his cousin or his own son who were allegedly members.(according to limey)

BTW, you cleared up why Lima went to SF, presumably to follow his uncle. I wonder if Tony Lima was marred to his wife/first cousin by the time he relocated or if that happened once he settled in SF.

His uncle Sebastiano? He was an earlier leader of some sort, capo or boss I don't know. His group, while connected to Pittsburgh and Johnstown they seemed to be based out of Marion, OH but perhaps I'm mistaken. It's still research in process but what I can say is he's not the only ORV Ital to go wagons east. San Francisco and Vallejo were linked to the ORV early on since the early '10's.

When the Limas moved to SF they went to Taraval St, above two miles east from the Pedone's on San Pablo Ave. But I've had no luck connecting them. The Limas seem to fall off my radar after they left. I don't know whether the move was OC-related or seeking economic opportunity.

I assume Salvatore Lima is the uncle based on Limey's charts. He died in 1965. No mention of Sebastiano Lima. Not sure his relationship to Tony Lima.

I was corresponding with a very knowledgeable poster who had a lot of great info on the Lima family. It was too late to use for my article but perhaps he will chime in here with his information. I think Tony Lima's informant file would be worth getting for a researcher interested in the early LCN days.


Thanks to all the folks who took the time to say they liked the article. It gives me a great deal of satisfaction to know that well-informed people found it enjoyable.

[Frank]

Good article, I liked it a lot, it's interesting to see that Vito Genovese ended up not being the only boss that harmed LCN in the 60s decade, I hope one day will be revealed the reasons that led him to do this, since at that time the Omerta was strong .

Genovese was a rat? Never heard that before.

No, I wanted to refer to the fact that Genovese harmed LCN with his attitudes in 1957, and it was because of him that Joe Valachi became an informant.

Oh ok I get what your saying. It just seems unthinkable that Vito would be a rat.

[aleksandrored]

Good article, I liked it a lot, it's interesting to see that Vito Genovese ended up not being the only boss that harmed LCN in the 60s decade, I hope one day will be revealed the reasons that led him to do this, since at that time the Omerta was strong .

Genovese was a rat? Never heard that before.

No, I wanted to refer to the fact that Genovese harmed LCN with his attitudes in 1957, and it was because of him that Joe Valachi became an informant.

Oh ok I get what your saying. It just seems unthinkable that Vito would be a rat.

Yes, but I remember seeing it somewhere, it could have been Vito Genovese who said that Lucky Luciano was in Cuba for the US, he could have done it for being demoted to the family and because Luciano did not trust him as a boss.

[Sonny Black]

brilliant real scientific stuff mate

[SILENT PARTNERZ]

Thanks Ed. SF and SJose info is hard to come by.
I appreciate all your effort and work. SP

[Angelo Santino]

Thanks Chris.

In the available files, he just mentions that his uncle was a member and that he was dead. I don't know if it's a coincidence, but Lima began to cooperate in 1965, the same year his uncle died.(assuming limey's dates are correct).

From the best I can tell, he doesn't mention anything about his cousin or his own son who were allegedly members.(according to limey)

BTW, you cleared up why Lima went to SF, presumably to follow his uncle. I wonder if Tony Lima was marred to his wife/first cousin by the time he relocated or if that happened once he settled in SF.

His uncle Sebastiano? He was an earlier leader of some sort, capo or boss I don't know. His group, while connected to Pittsburgh and Johnstown they seemed to be based out of Marion, OH but perhaps I'm mistaken. It's still research in process but what I can say is he's not the only ORV Ital to go wagons east. San Francisco and Vallejo were linked to the ORV early on since the early '10's.

When the Limas moved to SF they went to Taraval St, above two miles east from the Pedone's on San Pablo Ave. But I've had no luck connecting them. The Limas seem to fall off my radar after they left. I don't know whether the move was OC-related or seeking economic opportunity.

I assume Salvatore Lima is the uncle based on Limey's charts. He died in 1965. No mention of Sebastiano Lima. Not sure his relationship to Tony Lima.

I was corresponding with a very knowledgeable poster who had a lot of great info on the Lima family. It was too late to use for my article but perhaps he will chime in here with his information. I think Tony Lima's informant file would be worth getting for a researcher interested in the early LCN days.


Thanks to all the folks who took the time to say they liked the article. It gives me a great deal of satisfaction to know that well-informed people found it enjoyable.

It opened my eyes to alot of new information. I never really followed Frisco, I have some early names and I think I started a thread on this but quite little. So thanks for the research, interesting read and adding to my base of knowledge. And your work all but confirmed a deeper link to Pittsburgh with the Limas which I was starting to call into question in my own musings.

In 1910, Sebastiano and Salvatore Lima, brothers, were charged with conspiracy heading a ring which ran into Bellafontaine, Cincinnati, Marion to Pittsburgh and Johnstown as the Boss and cashier. it sounds like Tony Lima is connecting the Society of the Banana to Pittsburgh. Which, going back to their bases and area of operations wasn't based in Pittsburgh but southern Ohio with links to Pittsburgh. Antiliar and I spoke about this and he suggested it was just an earlier faction dash crew of "Pittsburgh." I had reservations for several reasons, mainly how they acted as a group, but Tony Lima would know alot more than I would now wouldn't he?

Great read.

[Dwalin2014]

In 1910, Sebastiano and Salvatore Lima, brothers, were charged with conspiracy heading a ring which ran into Bellafontaine, Cincinnati, Marion to Pittsburgh and Johnstown as the Boss and cashier. it sounds like Tony Lima is connecting the Society of the Banana to Pittsburgh. Which, going back to their bases and area of operations wasn't based in Pittsburgh but southern Ohio with links to Pittsburgh. Antiliar and I spoke about this and he suggested it was just an earlier faction dash crew of "Pittsburgh." I had reservations for several reasons, mainly how they acted as a group, but Tony Lima would know alot more than I would now wouldn't he?

Great read.

Speaking of this, there is an upcoming book this year about a 4-state investigation starting in 1909 against an early Mafia group, could it be the same one involving the Lima brothers?

https://www.amazon.com/Inspector-Oldfie ... 882&sr=1-1

Just thought it might be interesting to give a look when it gets released

[Stroccos]

In 1910, Sebastiano and Salvatore Lima, brothers, were charged with conspiracy heading a ring which ran into Bellafontaine, Cincinnati, Marion to Pittsburgh and Johnstown as the Boss and cashier. it sounds like Tony Lima is connecting the Society of the Banana to Pittsburgh. Which, going back to their bases and area of operations wasn't based in Pittsburgh but southern Ohio with links to Pittsburgh. Antiliar and I spoke about this and he suggested it was just an earlier faction dash crew of "Pittsburgh." I had reservations for several reasons, mainly how they acted as a group, but Tony Lima would know alot more than I would now wouldn't he?

Great read.

Speaking of this, there is an upcoming book this year about a 4-state investigation starting in 1909 against an early Mafia group, could it be the same one involving the Lima brothers?

https://www.amazon.com/Inspector-Oldfie ... 882&sr=1-1

Just thought it might be interesting to give a look when it gets released

Looks like it is ! I am going to order

[Angelo Santino]

In 1910, Sebastiano and Salvatore Lima, brothers, were charged with conspiracy heading a ring which ran into Bellafontaine, Cincinnati, Marion to Pittsburgh and Johnstown as the Boss and cashier. it sounds like Tony Lima is connecting the Society of the Banana to Pittsburgh. Which, going back to their bases and area of operations wasn't based in Pittsburgh but southern Ohio with links to Pittsburgh. Antiliar and I spoke about this and he suggested it was just an earlier faction dash crew of "Pittsburgh." I had reservations for several reasons, mainly how they acted as a group, but Tony Lima would know alot more than I would now wouldn't he?

Great read.

Speaking of this, there is an upcoming book this year about a 4-state investigation starting in 1909 against an early Mafia group, could it be the same one involving the Lima brothers?

https://www.amazon.com/Inspector-Oldfie ... 882&sr=1-1

Just thought it might be interesting to give a look when it gets released

Looks like it is ! I am going to order

Never heard of this. Should be interesting.

[Stroccos]

EFFORT TO STAMP OUT ' BUCK KIND" SOCIETY Men Arrested Here Are Taken to Toledo. It In also believed that the band sylvania a year ago, ending over is re.ponsinte for the mysterious thirty to the Western nenltentia a" Jt or a number of Italians In Ohio. Antonio Rizzo, of Cincinnati, died a ffw week ago after eating a banana given to him by a stranger, arter He had refaed to give the "Black Hand" 1 1,009. It is sup posed the banana was poisoned. The branch of the order which the authorities are now gathering In is said to have been known as the "So- "So- MUST ANSWER TO SERIOUS CHARGE! y 01 tae Banana A confession is said to have been made by one of the men arrested Ar 1iirgi-l 1iirgi-l 1iirgi-l Hit li Attempt To Extort I here, and opened up new lines of XIO.OOO from John Clmrles I work for the postoffice authorities. Atiiit'Oii, of Columbu -Other -Other Ar- Ar- ref Made Some f the) Crimes Ijiiil to the floor of H4M-lety, H4M-lety, H4M-lety, The raid by the poatofflce Inspec tors on a suspejfted "Black Hand" headquarters here Tuesday afternoon, afternoon, was only one of the results of the effor, s of the United States gov ernment to stamp out the extortion which has been practiced in central Ohio upon wealthy I alians, by a band of Sicilians said to have been connected with the Mafia and with similar organizations In this country and Italy. The Italians arrets ed here, Tues day, were taken to Toledo today and will be prosecuted before the United States court for an at'empt to extort extort $10,000 from John and Charles Amleon, Columbus fruit dealers. For months the Amleon brothers have received demands for the payment payment of the money and an effort was made last January to force its pay ment bv threats of violence and a dynamite bomb, around which a let ter was wrapped, was found iu the yard In the rear of the home of John Amleon. A large number of Italians throughout the state are believed to hav-e hav-e hav-e paid tribute to the gang. In some instances amounts" ranging around $1,000 were secured, but the victims refuse to confirm the report that they contributed through fear of the vengeance of the Mafia. Postoffk-e Postoffk-e Postoffk-e Inspectors Oldfleld, Hos- Hos- ford and Hutches and ,F. P. Dimlalo of the Pittsburg Pinkerton office, who has succeeded In breaking up a similar band of Italians in Pennsyl vania, were here Tuesday and arrest ed Salvatore Lima, whom the post- post- office authorities believe has acted as the leader of the band, and secur ed the larger part of the money ex-toned. ex-toned. ex-toned. Others arrested here were Salvatore Rlzzo and Salvatore Bat-taglla. Bat-taglla. Bat-taglla. Other inspectors at Dennlson, Ohio, arrested Antonio Vicrlo. At this place the authorities se cured two sacks of mail and a number number of books, which it Is believed will aid the government materially In the prosecution of the cases against those arrested and lead to other arrests In this city and other parts of Ohio. of the Dresses Ever Half Price but we believe we sample line of Gold-' Gold-' Gold-' at just 50c on the the finest quality materialsexquisitely with all over embroidery the new close fitting and in the best . ." styles, in fact, that priced now they -'II -'II on approval and all marked $3.75 marked $5.00 marked $7.50 marked $10.00 marked $12.50 marked $15.00 sale of Lingerie wool suit thought in save money than . The Ixm bI Kit lint ion. Intense excitement has been caused in Marion as the result of the unearthing of what is supposed to be the headquarters of the "Black Hand" society. This city is practically practically the fountain head of the so ciety, which has been sending letters over the country making demands from prosperous merchants for large suras, It Is charged. In these letters death is threatened if the money Is not paid over. The letters in most instances require the money to be sent to the address, Z.-M. Z.-M. Z.-M. Y., general delivery, Cincinnati, Ohio. Since the arrest of Salvatore Lima, here Tuesday, two arrests have been made. Joe Itlzzo, the other Italian arrested Tuesday, was later released as it was his brother who was wanted. Tuesday evening Salvatore Battaglia and Salvatore Itlzzo were arrested by Inspectors J. F. Oldfleld, E. F. Hutches and K. M. C. Hosford at their rooming place above the meat-market meat-market meat-market of Edward Fergus, on north Main street. The inspectors were accompanied by Officer Officer CuhIc, who took the men to the county Jail. Their grips and every portion of their apartments were thoroughly searched and a large bundle of letters and books taken in charge by the inspectors. It is be Moved that these contain information that will establish the guilt of th men as belonging to the society here, of which Salvatore Lima, now at the city prison, Is supposed to be the leader. , Inspector Charles Holmes ntates that the proof found against the gang arrested here Is convincing that they have worked their scheme sue cessfully on many Italians, principal ly well-to-do well-to-do well-to-do well-to-do well-to-do ' Sicilians. That they meant business in making their de mands Is . almost certain. , Fred Cicanciolo, a Cincinnati fruit dealer recently received a letter demanding $10,000 from him on penalty of death to himself and family. He paid no attention to the demand and a few days later a bomb was ex ploded in his front doorway, but no person was injured. A saloon ad joining was wrecked. Joseph An narino, another Cincinnati fruit dealer, was requested to turn over $10,000 or hia child would be kid napped. The Cincinnati postoflice. Inspectors declare that the writing in this letter and the paper Is the same as in the letters known to have been written from Marion. The men now under arrest here talk but little and express ignor mice as to the cause of their arrest. The firm of Crissinger & Guthery, which has represented the Lima brothers in business dealings, has been acting in their behalf, but has not secured an outline of the case and hus taken no action of any kiud It is declared by the inspectors here, Tuesday, that Salvatore Lima is the leader of the organization and that there is little evidence that he divided the spoils with any person It Is understood that at the call of Lima, conventions were held In this city, at which gatherings reports were made of the countrymen on whom demands would be made. It is said that members of the society from every section of Ohio, Pittsburg and other points in Pennsylvania at tended these meetings. It is believed that most of the let ters written to Ohio merchants were written In this city and mailed In Pittsburg, being passed through the hands of a number of confederates. It is claimed by the Inspectors that Ink and paper found at the store of Lima brothers. Is Identical with that used in making a number of the demands demands for money. 'F. P. Dimaio, Pittsburg superintendent of the Pink erton agency, has been working with the inspectors and assisted In making the nrres s In Marlon. He probably has more knowledge of the operations operations of the lawless Italian societies in America than any person outside the band. He conducted the work which resulted in the breaking up of a gang In Lawrence county, Penn- Penn- for ierms of from three to ten rears. In a recent' raid of the Pittsburg headquarters, twenty-one twenty-one twenty-one arrests were made. Several other Italians associated with the gang In Marion, have skip ped out. Antonio Lima, father o me is ma now in jail .here, was supposed supposed to be in Upper Sandusky. Tuesday. Tuesday. A relative from this place is known to nave communicated with him over the long distance telephone but when he was looked for at th p.ace it was learned that he had skipped out. Several others cannot be found who are warned by the in spectors wniie the absence of a fe-w fe-w fe-w more foreigners from the city makes it appear that the society here had a large membership. ... me inspectors who were in Ma rlon, Tuesday, have been working on . i . , me cae ui running aown tne gang for about tight months. It Is under stood that not more than eight week ago they had things well rounded up in Marlon, but were waiting develop ments to secure better evidence against the men whom they suspect ed. Arrests have been made a: Den nlson and Columbus and, this morn ing. Charles Dictarlo was arrested at Bellefontaiue by two of the inspectors no went from here to that place last evening. It is stated that Dic tarlo had papers In his possesgsion much the same as those found Lima's place here. U. a. Wilcox, a representative of the Associated Press, who came down from Chicago, this morning, maae an effort to secure a photo- photo- grapn 01 Lima but he refused to stand before the camera. Uni.d States Marshal Chandler wired Chief Cornwell and Sheriff Stark, at noon today, stating that he would send a deputy after the prisoners this after noon. ' Whether or not any letiers making demands for money have been received received in Marlon is not known. If there have been any, they have not been made public, but it Is not be- be- nevea t.nat any merchants In this city were worked on by the ganig as their demands were made in the larger cities. The papers and books secured at the Lima store by the inspectors, Tuesday, are being carefully Inspce-ed Inspce-ed Inspce-ed in Columbus. The inspectbrs will probably return here, this afternoon, to make further investigations and the arrest of one or two more parties may result. . , Local Italians are not Inclined to talk about the arrest of the alleged "Black Hand" suspects. Charles Storacl, who conducts a small fruit store, on north Main street, admitted, admitted, when seen, today, that he had received two threatening letters. mat was four month ago," he said. "I pay no attention. One told me to get ont of town, but me me no afraid." The other letter, Storaci said, warned him about his failure to at tend church after his marriage to an American. v. In neither letter was money de manded. Asked if he knew anything about a "Black Hand" society, Storaci mere ly smiled and shrugged his shoulders. When the postofflce Inspectors, ac companied by the town marshal. went to arrest Augustfna Marflsi. a rrult dealer, at Denison, this morn ing, on "Black Hand" charges, he put up a fight and was shot at sev eral times by the marshal before he was captured, blnce the arrest of the alleged mack Hand band at various points in Ohio within the last iweiuy-iour iweiuy-iour iweiuy-iour nours, numerous ru mors have gained circulation to the effect that these men participated In tne assassination of Petrosino, the New York detective, in Italy, a few months ago. One rumor' named Vic- Vic- cario as the assassin. Postofllce In spector Oldfleld, who conducted the Investigation which caused the ar rests, pronounced all these rumors as absolutely groundless. We have found nothing In any of the letters confiscated by others to connect any of these men with the Petrosino murder," said Inspector Oldfleld. "Some of the letters, how ver, were from Permine Imerse, the town in which Petrosino was murdered, and mentioned his pres ence there and his assassination, but e do not suspect any of these men witn participation in that crime. The crime was mentioned just as a person would Include any other news from onie. ' Think of Buying the Finest Fmbroid- Fmbroid- erie nt About Half