John Rosselli / Tony Pinelli / LA Transfers from Chicago

[Antiliar]

He apparently had lung issues. At one point he entered a sanitarium for tuberculosis.

[Pogo The Clown]

He apparently had lung issues. At one point he entered a sanitarium for tuberculosis.

I told you to tell 'em that you was in a sanitarium. Not sanitation, sanitarium. I told you to say you had TB and you was in a sanitarium. You was cured.



Pogo

[Villain]

Pinelli is a little bit confusing, meaning until 44 or 45 he was in Chicago and later went to California and returned again in 1952 and became a capo of the Northwest Indiana faction. It is possible that he changed membership during the period from 46 until 52 but according to some records he still had interests in the Chicago area, although he also bought a lot of real estate on the west coast at the same time. By the late 1950's and early 60's he was having deportation problems and by 1965 I believe he was again in California. Also according to one informant, Pinelli allegedly transferred his membership from Chi to LA during the mid 1960s

[Antiliar]

Villain, do you have a link to the informant who claimed that Pinelli transferred to the Los Angeles Family? My understanding is that he was always with Chicago, just like Frank Milano lived in L.A. but was always with Cleveland.

As for numbers, 60 at its peak is probably accurate.

[Villain]

Villain, do you have a link to the informant who claimed that Pinelli transferred to the Los Angeles Family? My understanding is that he was always with Chicago, just like Frank Milano lived in L.A. but was always with Cleveland.

As for numbers, 60 at its peak is probably accurate.

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.htm ... membership

[Antiliar]

Villain, do you have a link to the informant who claimed that Pinelli transferred to the Los Angeles Family? My understanding is that he was always with Chicago, just like Frank Milano lived in L.A. but was always with Cleveland.

As for numbers, 60 at its peak is probably accurate.

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.htm ... membership

I have that one and forgot about it. Thanks for the link and jarring my memory.

[Confederate]

Villain, do you have a link to the informant who claimed that Pinelli transferred to the Los Angeles Family? My understanding is that he was always with Chicago, just like Frank Milano lived in L.A. but was always with Cleveland.

As for numbers, 60 at its peak is probably accurate.

Antiliar, Your instinct on Pinelli may have been right. Here is a direct quote from Ovid Demaris in his great Book " Captive City" written in 1969.
Concerning Anthony Pinelli
(Modus Operandi: " A member of the Chicago Syndicate's Board of Directors, he ruled vice, narcotics and gambling in Lake County, Indiana, in the 1940's, moving his sphere of influence to Californiain 1953 while maintaining his position in Chicago and Gary, Indiana."

So, once again, take your choice of who you want to believe, the anonymous informant in 1968 or Ovid Demaris.

[Antiliar]

Actually, Confederate, Villain's evidence changed my mind. The informant was in a position to know. Demaris didn't have access to the informant's information. Like I wrote before, I don't claim to know everything and I'm open to learning. I learned something I either didn't know or forgot.

[Frank]

Actually, Confederate, Villain's evidence changed my mind. The informant was in a position to know. Demaris didn't have access to the informant's information. Like I wrote before, I don't claim to know everything and I'm open to learning. I learned something I either didn't know or forgot.

I think the Demaris book and the Informant are both correct. Basically both are saying he was an Outfit member, then went to California, and remained a member of the Outfit. Came back to Chicago as on Outfit member. Then moved to California and transferred to the L.A. Family.

[Confederate]

Actually, Confederate, Villain's evidence changed my mind. The informant was in a position to know. Demaris didn't have access to the informant's information. Like I wrote before, I don't claim to know everything and I'm open to learning. I learned something I either didn't know or forgot.

On page 321 of Captive City, Ovid Demaris's Sources are printed:
" The following biographical sketches are based on material from the files of several federal bureaus and agencies, and the Chicago and Los Angeles police departments. Other sources include the McCLellan and Kefauver hearings, the Chicago Crime Commission and Chicago's four daily newspapers: American, Daily News, Sun-Times and Tribune".

Very IMPRESSIVE sources. I think your first instinct was correct but I don't want to debate it for 5 pages. At least I agreed with you for a short while before you changed your mind. LOL

[Antiliar]

Captive City is a great book that I highly recommend. It is very accurate, and I'm not calling this a mistake. Consider that it was published in 1969. Before it was published the finished draft was sent to the publisher, then it was probably sent back for corrections and returned. So it's very likely that most of the work was completed in 1968. Then consider that while Demaris used a lot of great sources, the info on Pinelli was only found in an FBI file. The document in the file was from 1968, and the file was part of the HSCA Collection, which had restricted access until after the President John F. Kennedy Assassination Records Collection Act of 1992. It took the FBI years to process and release the files to the National Archives after that. So, as I wrote previously, Demaris didn't have access to the informant's information. This is an update to whatever Demaris wrote about Pinelli in his book.

[Confederate]

Captive City is a great book that I highly recommend. It is very accurate, and I'm not calling this a mistake. Consider that it was published in 1969. Before it was published the finished draft was sent to the publisher, then it was probably sent back for corrections and returned. So it's very likely that most of the work was completed in 1968. Then consider that while Demaris used a lot of great sources, the info on Pinelli was only found in an FBI file. The document in the file was from 1968, and the file was part of the HSCA Collection, which had restricted access until after the President John F. Kennedy Assassination Records Collection Act of 1992. It took the FBI years to process and release the files to the National Archives after that. So, as I wrote previously, Demaris didn't have access to the informant's information. This is an update to whatever Demaris wrote about Pinelli in his book.

You mean it COULD be an update but we really don't know since his final draft probably was in 1968 and the anonymous Informant's opinion was ALSO in 1968. The difference is that the information given by the Informant is only one opinion and Demaris had several opinions.

[Antiliar]

I give up.

[Frank]

I don't think anyone says he wasn't an Outfit member up until he had to give up his position in around 1965. Then he transferred to LA., because he couldn't do his Oufit duties from out west.

[Confederate]

I don't think anyone says he wasn't an Outfit member up until he had to give up his position in around 1965. Then he transferred to LA., because he couldn't do his Oufit duties from out west.

That's not what Ovid Demaris said in his book which is a fabulous source for the Chicago Outfit. He never said Pinelli "transfered to L.A." Again, it's his opinion based upon all his different F.B.I. etc. sources versus one anonymous informant's opinion both around 1968. You're gonna find this kind of thing many times. It simply comes down to which one you want to believe. Not everything about a Secret Society is going to 2 plus 2 equals 4. It's almost like debating about religion. It comes down to a belief many times. That's all.