John Rosselli / Tony Pinelli / LA Transfers from Chicago

[Snakes]

I was under the impression that Rosselli was sent to L.A. by Chicago and then made there as part of the L.A. Family but still seen as Chicago's "guy" out there. Later on, he transferred back to Chicago (probably when he began spending more and more time in Vegas). I could see him being made by Chicago before going out there but it may have added to his legitimacy and influence within L.A. to have him made in that city.

[Antiliar]

- I haven't seen anything to indicate that John Battaglia left the LA Family.
- Roselli was most likely made in LA, not Chicago, and was NOT part of the Chicago Family until he transferred after Dragna died. After that, he remained with Chicago until his death.
- Giammona was a capo who voluntarily demoted due to ill health.
- I couldn't find confirmation that Franzone tried to take over SF. We know little about him, except that he was previously associated with the North Side Crew, as was Galiano. Franzone was reportedly a capo in SF, so he must have transferred and later transferred back to Chicago and became inactive.

[Confederate]

- I haven't seen anything to indicate that John Battaglia left the LA Family.
- Roselli was most likely made in LA, not Chicago, and was NOT part of the Chicago Family until he transferred after Dragna died. After that, he remained with Chicago until his death.
- Giammona was a capo who voluntarily demoted due to ill health.
- I couldn't find confirmation that Franzone tried to take over SF. We know little about him, except that he was previously associated with the North Side Crew, as was Galiano. Franzone was reportedly a capo in SF, so he must have transferred and later transferred back to Chicago and became inactive.

Jack Dragna died in 1956. So, BEFORE 1956, you're saying that Roselli was part of the L.A. Family even though he had been sent there by Chicago, answered to Chicago and was Chicago's representative in the union and movie industry? Makes no sense at all.

[Antiliar]

- I haven't seen anything to indicate that John Battaglia left the LA Family.
- Roselli was most likely made in LA, not Chicago, and was NOT part of the Chicago Family until he transferred after Dragna died. After that, he remained with Chicago until his death.
- Giammona was a capo who voluntarily demoted due to ill health.
- I couldn't find confirmation that Franzone tried to take over SF. We know little about him, except that he was previously associated with the North Side Crew, as was Galiano. Franzone was reportedly a capo in SF, so he must have transferred and later transferred back to Chicago and became inactive.

Jack Dragna died in 1956. So, BEFORE 1956, you're saying that Roselli was part of the L.A. Family even though he had been sent there by Chicago, answered to Chicago and was Chicago's representative in the union and movie industry? Makes no sense at all.

Except for being sent to California by Chicago, answering to Chicago and representing Chicago before 1956, we agree.

[JeremyTheJew]

it seems the West Coast allowed more transfers between Families.

Did Roselli report to Dragna as a soldier?

[Confederate]

- I haven't seen anything to indicate that John Battaglia left the LA Family.
- Roselli was most likely made in LA, not Chicago, and was NOT part of the Chicago Family until he transferred after Dragna died. After that, he remained with Chicago until his death.
- Giammona was a capo who voluntarily demoted due to ill health.
- I couldn't find confirmation that Franzone tried to take over SF. We know little about him, except that he was previously associated with the North Side Crew, as was Galiano. Franzone was reportedly a capo in SF, so he must have transferred and later transferred back to Chicago and became inactive.

Jack Dragna died in 1956. So, BEFORE 1956, you're saying that Roselli was part of the L.A. Family even though he had been sent there by Chicago, answered to Chicago and was Chicago's representative in the union and movie industry? Makes no sense at all.

Except for being sent to California by Chicago, answering to Chicago and representing Chicago before 1956, we agree.

Chicago sent Roselli out to L.A and he answered to them with the Movie industry and the Union. That's why he went there. In 1943, Roselli was convicted of racketeering along with Frank Nitti (Chicago) and several others (Chicago) and served 3.5 years before he was pardoned in 1947 through the influence of Murray Humphreys (Chicago) and his connection to Attorney General Tom Clark. All Chicago, nothing to do with the L.A. Group.
You believe what you want and I'll believe the facts that happened. LOL

[Snakes]

Just because Rosselli was convicted with Chicago guys doesn't mean he wasn't a part of the L.A. Family. The western families were ultimately subservient to Chicago anyway so him being a member of another family didn't make him any less likely to follow orders from Chicago.

[Stroccos]

were Chicago’s books closed ? Like New York’s

[Snakes]

I have read that they were closed at certain times but it doesn't seem that they were closed as long as New York's were.

[Confederate]

Just because Rosselli was convicted with Chicago guys doesn't mean he wasn't a part of the L.A. Family. The western families were ultimately subservient to Chicago anyway so him being a member of another family didn't make him any less likely to follow orders from Chicago.

Antiliar said that he didn't agree with the facts that Roselli was sent to L.A. by Chicago and that he represented Chicago in the Movie industry and Union before 1956. Read his short ridiculous answer. lol That is what I was responding to in my post. Maybe he belonged to BOTH Families. Who cares? It doesn't negate the fact that he answered to Chicago in reality.

[Antiliar]

No, Confederate, I don't agree with what YOU CLAIM to be facts. Things aren't facts just because you say they are. In this thread most of us can brainstorm, share ideas, and agree to disagree. Obviously, your knowledge is superior to everyone else's. Maybe you had a relative in Chicago like Chuckie English or Joseph Lombardi to tell you the real deal, so in the future we should bow before you.

[Confederate]

No, Confederate, I don't agree with what YOU CLAIM to be facts. Things aren't facts just because you say they are. In this thread most of us can brainstorm, share ideas, and agree to disagree. Obviously, your knowledge is superior to everyone else's. Maybe you had a relative in Chicago like Chuckie English or Joseph Lombardi to tell you the real deal, so in the future we should bow before you.

I don't know what you're talking about and I don't have any relative in Chicago. lol I'm just going by what I read about how Chicago sent Roselli out to Chicago and how he was their representative in the movie industry and the union. He also went to jail for those things in 1943. Those are actual facts that you denied. I just don't understand why you denied what happened? That's all. Maybe if Villain or Snakes stated those same things that happened you wouldn't be so negative about it. No need to get hostile.

[Antiliar]

I didn't deny that he went to prison or was associated with the movie industry, those are words that you're putting in my mouth. I was very specific about what I meant when I wrote "Except for being sent to California by Chicago, answering to Chicago and representing Chicago before 1956, we agree." "No need to get hostile." Yet you wrote that my comment was "ridiculous." You could have written that you just disagreed, but you went with ridiculous, which is an insult. Is it possible that I came to this conclusion because I have done serious research on Roselli and might even have multiple Outfit-connect contacts? Is it possible that some of the information we have been told over the years isn't accurate, and perhaps I learned this after fact-checking? We can have different conclusions and be respectful to each other. I'll even admit that I'm not always right either, and am willing to learn and be corrected by others as long as they have good, solid evidence or a good argument. I would suggest you consider this for yourself.

[Confederate]

I didn't deny that he went to prison or was associated with the movie industry, those are words that you're putting in my mouth. I was very specific about what I meant when I wrote "Except for being sent to California by Chicago, answering to Chicago and representing Chicago before 1956, we agree." "No need to get hostile." Yet you wrote that my comment was "ridiculous." You could have written that you just disagreed, but you went with ridiculous, which is an insult. Is it possible that I came to this conclusion because I have done serious research on Roselli and might even have multiple Outfit-connect contacts? Is it possible that some of the information we have been told over the years isn't accurate, and perhaps I learned this after fact-checking? We can have different conclusions and be respectful to each other. I'll even admit that I'm not always right either, and am willing to learn and be corrected by others as long as they have good, solid evidence or a good argument. I would suggest you consider this for yourself.

Please accept my apology. I took your answer to be short and sarcastic. I have had this misunderstanding with Snakes also. Sometimes it is difficult to get an accurate read of somebody's words on the internet. I do respect your research and have complimented you previously. I just don't agree with all your conclusions about Chicago because they did do some things differently. Don't you think Roselli was sent to L.A. by Chicago? Don't you think he took orders from Chicago in 1943 during the Extortion years which is way before 1956 when Dragna died? I think those things are factual, don't you? If not, please explain your point.

[Antiliar]

Okay, Confederate, I accept your apology. Just a suggestion for the future: We're all here to learn and share ideas, so we should all be humble and appreciate each other's input. Just my two cents.

Regarding your Roselli questions, I already stated that I don't think Chicago sent him and that he wasn't part of the Outfit before 1956. He knew Outfit guys and was close to some of them, but was not part of that Family. He was a member of the Los Angeles Family during the Dragna years and may have been made in California during the late 1920s or early 1930s. I came to this conclusion after going over every book, article and document that mentions him, including material I obtained when I did research at the National Archives in Maryland, DC, and Chicago.