Businness or blood/George from Canada

[SonnyBlackstein]

Most Montreal discussions belong in the "sports" section as people seem to be fans of a specific "team" and can't let it go.

Amen to that

[B.]

What's funny is people seem to have no problem recognizing that Carmine Galante wasn't the official boss of the Bonannos (at least in the Commission's eyes -- see the thread about him possibly being recognized as official boss by a majority of the Bonanno family for discussion on that), though he was far more influential than anyone in Montreal's history. But people have difficulty accepting that the Montreal narrative might be different than they assumed, and I'm not taking anything away from Rizzuto's power when I say that.

Honestly I think that people have a love affair with anyone they can call "Don Vito". You had, and still have, people calling Vito Genovese the boss of bosses in a time when that position didn't exist and he didn't even have defacto authority on that level, but it sounds good in books, articles, and documentaries. Vito Cascio Ferro gets talked about like he was the Sicilian mastermind-of-masterminds behind everything happening over the Atlantic ocean -- one of those Carlo Gambino TV biographies from the past few years claims Cascio Ferro specifically sent Gambino to the US. No doubt this all stems from the Godfather, as people love to refer to real life figures as "Don Vito", the "Godfather".

And now we have Vito Rizzuto, the "Montreal Godfather" who, according to the Sixth Family, controlled "hundreds of Sicilian men of honor" around the world (the book actually says that). Massino, the boss of one of the largest mafia families in the world, full of seasoned killers, who himself had orchestrated a large number of murders, was scared after killing Sciascia not because Sciascia was a universally respected international mafioso with his own loyal and dangerous allies in NYC as well as Montreal, but because he "might" draw the wrath of Don Vito Rizzuto. And what happened? Massino sent his underboss and one of his top captains to Montreal where they were taken to a gracious dinner with the entire Montreal crew, with Vito tactfully declining a formal promotion and expressing polite dissatisfaction over the administration's dishonesty about the Sciascia killing. Vitale did say he was nervous, but that is what actually happened.

What's funny is Fernandez' comments about him and Desjardins being made members inducted by Vito is as close to a member source as we have. We don't even have enough information about the organization to discount his comments, as ridiculous as they sound.

[Lupara]

What's funny is people seem to have no problem recognizing that Carmine Galante wasn't the official boss of the Bonannos (at least in the Commission's eyes -- see the thread about him possibly being recognized as official boss by a majority of the Bonanno family for discussion on that), though he was far more influential than anyone in Montreal's history. But people have difficulty accepting that the Montreal narrative might be different than they assumed, and I'm not taking anything away from Rizzuto's power when I say that.

Honestly I think that people have a love affair with anyone they can call "Don Vito". You had, and still have, people calling Vito Genovese the boss of bosses in a time when that position didn't exist and he didn't even have defacto authority on that level, but it sounds good in books, articles, and documentaries. Vito Cascio Ferro gets talked about like he was the Sicilian mastermind-of-masterminds behind everything happening over the Atlantic ocean -- one of those Carlo Gambino TV biographies from the past few years claims Cascio Ferro specifically sent Gambino to the US. No doubt this all stems from the Godfather, as people love to refer to real life figures as "Don Vito", the "Godfather".

And now we have Vito Rizzuto, the "Montreal Godfather" who, according to the Sixth Family, controlled "hundreds of Sicilian men of honor" around the world (the book actually says that). Massino, the boss of one of the largest mafia families in the world, full of seasoned killers, who himself had orchestrated a large number of murders, was scared after killing Sciascia not because Sciascia was a universally respected international mafioso with his own loyal and dangerous allies in NYC as well as Montreal, but because he "might" draw the wrath of Don Vito Rizzuto. And what happened? Massino sent his underboss and one of his top captains to Montreal where they were taken to a gracious dinner with the entire Montreal crew, with Vito tactfully declining a formal promotion and expressing polite dissatisfaction over the administration's dishonesty about the Sciascia killing. Vitale did say he was nervous, but that is what actually happened.

What's funny is Fernandez' comments about him and Desjardins being made members inducted by Vito is as close to a member source as we have. We don't even have enough information about the organization to discount his comments, as ridiculous as they sound.

Amen to this.

[Lupara]

Is it possible that they had Vito made just to open certain doors, to be seen as a legitimate gangster by Americans? Surely Massino knew the score in MTL, since he extended the option to take Sciascia's place as capo to Vito Rizzuto? All the friction between the Cotroni/Violi faction and the Sicilians, couldn't have escaped the Bonanno administration; particularly their unwillingness to fall in line with Cotroni's chosen successor since it is in of itself a challenge to the Bonanno's control over the crew, isn't it? Isn't that the real reason Sciascia was clipped? Massino thumbing his nose at the Rizzutos?

From where i'm sitting it looks like Massino whacked Sciascia knowing it would hurt relations with MTL and then offered the position to the man he knew was really running the show as a way of trying to keep them in the Bonanno fold. I defer to your knowledge, Lupara, because you definitely are better informed than I am. But this is how i always understood the Bonanno/Rizzuto beef. Am I wrong?

I don't know whether you're right or wrong but there could be truth to it. Sadly, we remain in an ever ending circle of speculation.

[johnny_scootch]

From where i'm sitting it looks like Massino whacked Sciascia knowing it would hurt relations with MTL and then offered the position to the man he knew was really running the show as a way of trying to keep them in the Bonanno fold.

I doubt highly at this point in time Massino or Rizzuto thought 'leaving the fold' was even possible. Don't forget Montreal was sending tribute down to New York well past the murder of Sciascia.

[Frank]

If Vito didn't accept capo position, then who did?

[SonnyBlackstein]

If Vito didn't accept capo position, then who did?

Vito suggested, and it was accepted, to bump his old man.

[Frank]

If Vito didn't accept capo position, then who did?

Vito suggested, and it was accepted, to bump his old man.

Oh ok his dad, that makes sense.

[Lupara]

If Vito didn't accept capo position, then who did?

Vito suggested, and it was accepted, to bump his old man.

Oh ok his dad, that makes sense.

I don't think it was accepted. There was no official appointment after Sciascia's death but Vito was regarded as acting capo by Vitale.

[Frank]

If Vito didn't accept capo position, then who did?

Vito suggested, and it was accepted, to bump his old man.

Oh ok his dad, that makes sense.

I don't think it was accepted. There was no official appointment after Sciascia's death but Vito was regarded as acting capo by Vitale.

Ok thanks

[JeremyTheJew]

If Vito didn't accept capo position, then who did?

Vito suggested, and it was accepted, to bump his old man.

Oh ok his dad, that makes sense.

I don't think it was accepted. There was no official appointment after Sciascia's death but Vito was regarded as acting capo by Vitale.

Would this have been when Vito became the "Sixth Fam"??

[johnny_scootch]

If Vito didn't accept capo position, then who did?

Vito suggested, and it was accepted, to bump his old man.

Oh ok his dad, that makes sense.

I don't think it was accepted. There was no official appointment after Sciascia's death but Vito was regarded as acting capo by Vitale.

Would this have been when Vito became the "Sixth Fam"??

Jeremy sixth family is just a name made up by journalists and Sonny if you're going off what is said in the book Lupara is right. Vitale left Canada and no one was appointed captain. He said Vito was being evasive so he thought it best to leave it alone.

[JeremyTheJew]

i understand it was a coin termed by that book.

but, it can ve argued that at this time is when Vito made them what they were. Which became the Rizzuto Family

[Lupara]

i understand it was a coin termed by that book.

but, it can ve argued that at this time is when Vito made them what they were. Which became the Rizzuto Family

I think the organization they build up was already in place before Sciascia was killed. Like I said the Rizzutos were seemingly running Montreal even though they were technically Bonanno soldiers and they were loyal to Sciascia who in turn was loyal to them and to the Bonannos. But Vito was smart enough to respect the rules of Cosa Nostra hence why he received Vitale and Urso with the respect and protocol they were entitled to when they visited Montreal almost two years after Sciascia was murdered.

In the years that followed Montagna regurarly traveled to Montreal to deliver messages from the Bonanno admin to the Rizzutos as has been said by Daniel Renaud.

[johnny_scootch]

In the years that followed Montagna regurarly traveled to Montreal to deliver messages from the Bonanno admin to the Rizzutos as has been said by Daniel Renaud.

Deliver messages and also pick up cash as has been said by Dominick Cicale.