Genovese Family Administration

[Frank]

was it believed benny eggs stayed UB until death?
and was Ida still holding rank in prison?

I never saw anything definitive regarding how long they held their ranks after they went to prison. They were simply the last ones that held those ranks, at least until more recently.

never heard of Leo being Official Boss. But doesn't being on the ruling panel count as being an official administration member??

Official, in the sense we're talking about, means a permanent position unless one dies, steps down, or flips. Not in an acting capacity which, by its nature, is a temporary thing. Ruling panels, including when Leo was on the Genovese ruling panel, also tend to be temporary and often changing or rotating.

I bad, the panel was acting too for the incarcerated administration. As long as we are on the subject, I always thought it was it was strange that Leo was never made Official, that we know of, when the Chin died. I always thought at the time that either Leo became official, but LE never found out, or he was acting until Bellomo got out. It looked like Bellomo over the years was being groomed to succeed Gigante. But I can see the reason they would have a panel since most of the leaders just about ready to get out of prison and probably had supervised release time. It's another period of time that could end up with somebody in the future changing what we accept now as the facts.

After Chin was convicted and went to prison in 1997, Cirillo (who took over as acting boss) instituted the ruling panel that same year. The assumption at the time was that Gigante would get out, nobody foreseeing he would die in 2005. But the family continued to use the ruling panel (often with one being the acting boss) even after Chin died, as well as after Bellomo was released from prison in late 2008. In fact, in 2009 Bellomo was said to be on a rotating panel along with Mangano, Muscarella, and Dentico. Later, Fiumara was said to be on a 3 man ruling panel before he died in 2010. The panel was probably in use at least until Bellomo took over as official boss.

Yes so do you think Fiumara was a member of the ruling panel that was either misidentified as 3 or added members as they were released or off of supervised release. I ask because from what I remember back the didn't those 2 different reports of a 3 man ruling panel and the rotating panel came out only months apart.

[maninblack]

Yeah I could see a lot of the older members being like an advisory committee for the administration. Probably consisting of guys like Cirillo mario gigante Larry dentico and Johnny barbato etc. Still it makes you wonder that how in this day and age the top crime family in the US still hasn't had their entire administration revealed by law enforcement. We know Bellomo is the boss and that Petey red is acing but is he also consigliere? Who is the underboss? Either the feds don't know or they are refusing to comment to the press for some reason. Maybe the Genovese don't have an underboss or consigliere anymore and it's a panel of capos running it. All very mysterious and keeps us all guessing

Yeah this is more what I was thinking in talking about Cirillos position theres no way hes still gonna be active on the street or anything.. Im just surprised more people dont think Danny Leo is underboss. He was acting boss like a decade and a half ago and since hes been out has kept a low profile. I just feel like Chin wanted Barney and Leo to be the next generation of leadership after him

[Wiseguy]

Yes so do you think Fiumara was a member of the ruling panel that was either misidentified as 3 or added members as they were released or off of supervised release. I ask because from what I remember back the didn't those 2 different reports of a 3 man ruling panel and the rotating panel came out only months apart.

The first one was a June 2009 New York Daily News article identifies that mentioned Benny Mangano, Ernie Muscarella, Barney Bellomo, and Larry Dentico being on a "rotating panel" of recently released senior members running the family. They didnt say they were all then on the panel or had been at the same time, necessarily.

The second one was a September 2009 New York Times article that said Tino Fiumara was on a "three man panel" running the family. I can only assume the rotating had continued, as it had over the past 20+ years, and Fiumara became a part of it at some point. Other than identifying guys who have been on the ruling panel, we never saw a specific number that made up the panel before the article about Fiumara. But that doesn't mean 3 was always the number.

[maninblack]

Was someone just fucking with us about Petey Red being dead or is that for real

[The Cat]

How does a newspaper get the information of a crime family’s leadership in such detail that it’s never questioned and people repeat it and then it’s fact ?

I could be missing something but doesn’t a high ranking member have to flip to get this information or a high ranked member gets caught on a wire.

But it’s usually newspaper just printing a story trying to grab headlines NO ?

[Stroccos]

How does a newspaper get the information of a crime family’s leadership in such detail that it’s never questioned and people repeat it and then it’s fact ?

I could be missing something but doesn’t a high ranking member have to flip to get this information or a high ranked member gets caught on a wire.

But it’s usually newspaper just printing a story trying to grab headlines NO ?

It comes from the justice department or the fbi

[Wiseguy]

How does a newspaper get the information of a crime family’s leadership in such detail that it’s never questioned and people repeat it and then it’s fact ?

I could be missing something but doesn’t a high ranking member have to flip to get this information or a high ranked member gets caught on a wire.

But it’s usually newspaper just printing a story trying to grab headlines NO ?

It comes from the justice department or the fbi

Yeah, sometimes articles will cite a law enforcement source. How reliable an article can be is a case by case basis. I mention the articles I did above because, from the time Leo was indicted until it became known that Bellomo is the boss, there wasn't much else to go on. Obviously indictments hold the most weight.

[yatescj7781]

How does a newspaper get the information of a crime family’s leadership in such detail that it’s never questioned and people repeat it and then it’s fact ?

I could be missing something but doesn’t a high ranking member have to flip to get this information or a high ranked member gets caught on a wire.

But it’s usually newspaper just printing a story trying to grab headlines NO ?

It comes from the justice department or the fbi

Yeah, sometimes articles will cite a law enforcement source. How reliable an article can be is a case by case basis. I mention the articles I did above because, from the time Leo was indicted until it became known that Bellomo is the boss, there wasn't much else to go on. Obviously indictments hold the most weight.

I respectfully disagree with you. Indictments hold more weight than media articles is a foregone conclusion. That is because media articles are based off indictments. Neither are based on the truth. It's like you saying Benny Eggs is still the titular UB when he is dead. You have to go with facts, and if you don't have the facts at that time just don't say anything. Or say you don't know.

[Wiseguy]

I respectfully disagree with you. Indictments hold more weight than media articles is a foregone conclusion. That is because media articles are based off indictments. Neither are based on the truth. It's like you saying Benny Eggs is still the titular UB when he is dead. You have to go with facts, and if you don't have the facts at that time just don't say anything. Or say you don't know.

Some articles are related to indictments. Others have nothing to do with them. But I'm not sure what you mean by "neither are based on the truth." And you know I'm all about "facts." The Benny Eggs thing was just me forgetting he had died a while back. Doesn't change the info we have available regarding the Genovese leadership in the time in question.

[JIGGS]

Out of curiosity, was Jimmy Ida EVER identified as the official Consigliere or "Acting" consigliere in any indictment or organized crime report? Seems like up to 2003, Bobby Manna was still being visited in prison by the West Side and giving his 'take' on things. I just heard that tape recording of Sammy Aparo talking to D'urso and the way Sammy described Ida ("... they used Jimmy for the family.... consigliere.)

I wouldn't be surprised if Bobby Manna was still official Consigliere throughout the 1990s and into the Y2K. Despite the media or the Feds.

He's 88 now. Incarcerated. 4 of the 5 families have official bosses in a prison cell. Why not a Consigliere? Can't rule him out totally. The fact that the Feds don't know would make that scenario right up their [West Side] alley. Making the govt. (and us) look at Ida all that time.

Bellomo should also be considered as the Consigliere or Consigliere-like. Yeah, yeah, I know. He's the Boss. [According to Capeci's street and fed sources] But is the responsibility that goes with it still part of Barney's family duties? A title is just a word. I think we should consider the West Side at this point in time as always (from here on end) having an acting/street boss. Everything else is a formality. A captain could be just as "high" on the power scale as an administration guy.

JIGGS

[Pogo The Clown]

Out of curiosity, was Jimmy Ida EVER identified as the official Consigliere or "Acting" consigliere in any indictment or organized crime report?

Yes. He was indicted as the Official Consigliere in 1996. Gravano also IDed ida as the Genovese Consigliere when he flipped in 1991.


Pogo

[JeremyTheJew]

I wonder if Do Chiara has been replaced.

i dont get why you say Bellomo is more of a Consiglere tho.

In Mob Boss D Arco said he was official consig for Ida

[JIGGS]

Out of curiosity, was Jimmy Ida EVER identified as the official Consigliere or "Acting" consigliere in any indictment or organized crime report?

Yes. He was indicted as the Official Consigliere in 1996. Gravano also IDed ida as the Genovese Consigliere when he flipped in 1991.


Pogo

Thanks. Just seems like Bobby Manna was still part of the inner circle. They weren't visiting Jimmy Ida. Least not what the Feds have reported on. Going back to my point that a title is just that. Ida is ID'd as official consigliere but between the incarcerated Manna and the incarcerated Ida, dollars to donuts, Manna likely held more sway than Ida. Despite the title.

[JIGGS]

I wonder if Do Chiara has been replaced.

i dont get why you say Bellomo is more of a Consiglere tho.

Is this for me?

You can see the same 'pattern' in other families throughout history. The top power guys being 3rd or notch below the boss in the pecking order from a titular standpoint. Obviously that's a strategy on their part. It is not to suggest Mr. Bellomo isn't the Boss. Would it be so far fetched to think he could be the Consigliere? While holding the final word? Who else has been in this role in Cosa Nostra? Plenty. (Casso, Accardo, Gambino [John], Lombardo [Phil & Joey], Rabito, etc.) Well maybe not plenty. I'm sure there's guys on here who can think of more examples than I can.

JIGGS

[JeremyTheJew]

I wonder if Do Chiara has been replaced.

i dont get why you say Bellomo is more of a Consiglere tho.

Is this for me?

You can see the same 'pattern' in other families throughout history. The top power guys being 3rd or notch below the boss in the pecking order from a titular standpoint. Obviously that's a strategy on their part. It is not to suggest Mr. Bellomo isn't the Boss. Would it be so far fetched to think he could be the Consigliere? While holding the final word? Who else has been in this role in Cosa Nostra? Plenty. (Casso, Accardo, Gambino [John], Lombardo [Phil & Joey], Rabito, etc.) Well maybe not plenty. I'm sure there's guys on here who can think of more examples than I can.

JIGGS

i get what your saying.
in a way, similar to Crea Snr. actually Creas I think is different.