Moneyline before vegas

[MichaelGiovanni]

Pretty specific question I have but does anyone have any info on who set the moneyline for sports betting before the point spread and vegas came about in the 1940's and how involved were the families in setting that line for either baseball or football?

There are some knowledgeable members here and I am hoping someone could shed some light on this. Thanks!

[Snakes]

I don't know if anyone can point to a specific time or place where it began; before football there was baseball and before baseball there was horse and dog racing. Some of the bigger books (both in and out of the mob) were probably setting lines at that point that were then copied by small time bookies. Once Vegas opened, a lot of good oddsmakers moved out there to make a legitimate living and their lines were seen as the standard, although local books would adjust depending on how much money came in on one team or another.

[Villain]

The whole thing possibly started during the 1860's in New Orleans, which at the time was already a very "corrupt" city by having people bet on prize fighting, cockfights, card games and even horse or dog racing. And so by 1880's bookmaking was officially introduced to the public around the country and also the business of handling wagers on horse races. For example, two of Chicago's most prominent racketeers such as King Mike McDonald and Jame O'Leary allegedly opened the first off-track betting resort. During the early 1890's, O'Leary opened his own saloon on Halsted Street, which he designed to include a Turkish bath, a restaurant, billiard room and a bowling alley and later he also added a handbook parlor with a detailed race track results and other betting information. So O’Leary was probably one of the first racketeers that recognized the important changes that were taking place in the gambling world. The traditional games like poker, faro or craps, had been replaced by betting on horse races. The thing was that betting at the horse tracks was legal and in addition, new advances in communications, such as the telegraphs and wire services allowed bettors to place bets from local saloons, bars and pool rooms. The wire services were connected to all of the major race tracks around the country so the bettors easily placed their bets at the gambling parlors that contained central switchboards, usually placed in some “secretive” back rooms.

I think that some of the Italian crime syndicates or independent bosses became deeply connected with he handbook operations during the late 1900's, when Mont Tennes became the lord of all gambling across the states with the help of his wire service, which he took over from another gambling operator. Story goes that by 1927, the ownership of the wire service was changed and the Capone Mob had its own shares in it. Proof for that was the time period in which the U.S. government was still “confused” on whether greyhounds were legal to be used for racing or even whether the whole race tracks were legal or not. So by 1929, there were only two race tracks in the Chicago area, one was the Hawthorne Kennel Club in Cicero and other track was located in Homewood, Illinois. The second track was owned by Homer Ellis, a known gambler and slot machine king from the Chicago Heights area and also a known Capone associate, and as for the Hawthorne Kennel Club, the track was owned strictly by the Capone mob. Every high profile member of the organization had their own shares at the track, including Capone, Frank Nitto, the Fischettis and Jake Guzik but none of their showed up on the papers but instead the operation was managed by John Patton and another Capone associate known as Edward O’Hare, a guy who was regarded as the czar of dog racing in America. O’Hare acted as president and Patton was the secretary and treasurer and also both owned 85% of stock in the half-mile dog track and grounds and the rest was owned by small group of “Chicagoans”. By 1935, the Outfit also devised a plan to spread their race track operations in Miami, Florida. This plan was orchestrated by O’Hare, Patton, Guzik, Ricca and Nitto and by 1939, the race tracks in Florida became known as the “Capone gang” tracks. Few of the most prominent race tracks in Florida owned by the Outfit were the Miami Beach Kennel Club, Jacksonville Kennel Club Inc., Orange Park Kennel Club, The Tropical Park and The Outdoor Clubs Inc.

[Stroccos]

Pretty specific question I have but does anyone have any info on who set the moneyline for sports betting before the point spread and vegas came about in the 1940's and how involved were the families in setting that line for either baseball or football?

There are some knowledgeable members here and I am hoping someone could shed some light on this. Thanks!

For sports betting they would subscribe to a line service who you get the lines from.one of the biggest was Leo herschfields Athletic publications out of Minneapolis was the first big one for sports betting dubbed the Minneapolis line ,

[MichaelGiovanni]

Thanks for the responses guys.

[AndyHaHa]

Yea what Stroccos said....the used the line service , you have to think the Vegas sports book is a senior modern invention, illicit sports gambling is not

[AndyHaHa]

My son auto correct screwed me but I meant semi new not senior

[Stroccos]

Yea what Stroccos said....the used the line service , you have to think the Vegas sports book is a senior modern invention, illicit sports gambling is not

Leo herschfields Closed up shop with the passing of the federal wire act in I think 61 , then the books in las Vegas guys started posting lines and then the Vegas line was born , the most famous guys like jimmy “the Greek ” Snyder
It was until the mid 70’s when the govemrnt dropped the tax from ten percent to 2 percent that more casinos started getting books . And then once they dropped it from 2 percent to A quarter of a percent every casino got a book .

[Stroccos]

Thanks for the responses guys.

The mob never set the line ,

[Villain]

Thanks for the responses guys.

The mob never set the line ,

Thats true, they rarely set any of the lines, they usually took them over