Pogo The Clown wrote: ↑Sat Jan 13, 2018 12:43 pm
Yeah I have 130-132 members on my list not counting the reamining Montreal members. Just recently they lost 3 members (Gerry Chilli, Peter Lovaglio and Vincenzo Morena). So about 150 members for the Bonannos would be more accurate
Pogo
Are you talking about presently or like 15 years ago?
As said above, this topic has already been done before but I still lean towards the Bonannos maybe getting up as high as 140-150 members in the early-to-mid 2000s (before the indictments and defections started coming) only if the 20 or so Montreal members were a part of those estimates.
As I've pointed out before, there were 111 known members on Robert Lino's no contact list (which included himself) in 2001. This figure is close to what Frank Lino testified about the family having 12 captains and approximately 100 soldiers in 2003. By 2004 to 2005 is when you start to see those bigger estimates being published. However, according to the FBI, wiretaps filed in the Basciano case revealed the family had less than 100 soldiers in 2006. The family has also had something like 15 guys flip who they're technically not allowed to replace until the defector dies.
Looks like Bonanno associate Frank Gillette is one of the two guys charged in the FEMA scam. People will remember him from the news about mobbed up dirt brokers and illegal dumping over the last couple years.
Pogo The Clown wrote: ↑Sat Jan 13, 2018 12:43 pm
Yeah I have 130-132 members on my list not counting the reamining Montreal members. Just recently they lost 3 members (Gerry Chilli, Peter Lovaglio and Vincenzo Morena). So about 150 members for the Bonannos would be more accurate
Pogo
Are you talking about presently or like 15 years ago?
As said above, this topic has already been done before but I still lean towards the Bonannos maybe getting up as high as 140-150 members in the early-to-mid 2000s (before the indictments and defections started coming) only if the 20 or so Montreal members were a part of those estimates.
As I've pointed out before, there were 111 known members on Robert Lino's no contact list (which included himself) in 2001. This figure is close to what Frank Lino testified about the family having 12 captains and approximately 100 soldiers in 2003. By 2004 to 2005 is when you start to see those bigger estimates being published. However, according to the FBI, wiretaps filed in the Basciano case revealed the family had less than 100 soldiers in 2006. The family has also had something like 15 guys flip who they're technically not allowed to replace until the defector dies.
Would it be more accurate to say the Bonannos have 100/120 “active” members?
Also does anyone know what the Bonannos ‘membership cap’ was/is?
Wiseguy wrote: ↑Sat Jan 13, 2018 3:07 pm
Are you talking about presently or like 15 years ago?
Presently. As I said we have IDed at least 130 members already. Throw in the remaining Montreal members and the unknowns and 150 looks to be the more accurate number. Don't forget both Massino and Vitale had the family at the 150-160 members when they were running it.
Pogo
It's a new morning in America... fresh, vital. The old cynicism is gone. We have faith in our leaders. We're optimistic as to what becomes of it all. It really boils down to our ability to accept. We don't need pessimism. There are no limits.
Pogo The Clown wrote: ↑Sat Jan 13, 2018 12:43 pm
Yeah I have 130-132 members on my list not counting the reamining Montreal members. Just recently they lost 3 members (Gerry Chilli, Peter Lovaglio and Vincenzo Morena). So about 150 members for the Bonannos would be more accurate
Pogo
Are you talking about presently or like 15 years ago?
As said above, this topic has already been done before but I still lean towards the Bonannos maybe getting up as high as 140-150 members in the early-to-mid 2000s (before the indictments and defections started coming) only if the 20 or so Montreal members were a part of those estimates.
As I've pointed out before, there were 111 known members on Robert Lino's no contact list (which included himself) in 2001. This figure is close to what Frank Lino testified about the family having 12 captains and approximately 100 soldiers in 2003. By 2004 to 2005 is when you start to see those bigger estimates being published. However, according to the FBI, wiretaps filed in the Basciano case revealed the family had less than 100 soldiers in 2006. The family has also had something like 15 guys flip who they're technically not allowed to replace until the defector dies.
Would it be more accurate to say the Bonannos have 100/120 “active” members?
Also does anyone know what the Bonannos ‘membership cap’ was/is?
Given the info I posted above, I'm of the opinion the present day Bonannos don't have more than, say, 125 members total. The estimates I've seen in articles here and there over the last decade have ranged 100-115 members. Not 140-150 members or more.
As far as their cap, D'Arco said their cap was 125-140 members. Capeci, who wrote the D'Arco book incidentally, put the cap at 300 in his earlier book Idiots Guide to the Mafia. Not sure what he based that on. Figures from Joe Bonanno or Joe Valachi maybe.
Pogo The Clown wrote: ↑Sat Jan 13, 2018 12:43 pm
Yeah I have 130-132 members on my list not counting the reamining Montreal members. Just recently they lost 3 members (Gerry Chilli, Peter Lovaglio and Vincenzo Morena). So about 150 members for the Bonannos would be more accurate
Pogo
Are you talking about presently or like 15 years ago?
As said above, this topic has already been done before but I still lean towards the Bonannos maybe getting up as high as 140-150 members in the early-to-mid 2000s (before the indictments and defections started coming) only if the 20 or so Montreal members were a part of those estimates.
As I've pointed out before, there were 111 known members on Robert Lino's no contact list (which included himself) in 2001. This figure is close to what Frank Lino testified about the family having 12 captains and approximately 100 soldiers in 2003. By 2004 to 2005 is when you start to see those bigger estimates being published. However, according to the FBI, wiretaps filed in the Basciano case revealed the family had less than 100 soldiers in 2006. The family has also had something like 15 guys flip who they're technically not allowed to replace until the defector dies.
Would it be more accurate to say the Bonannos have 100/120 “active” members?
Also does anyone know what the Bonannos ‘membership cap’ was/is?
Given the info I posted above, I'm of the opinion the present day Bonannos don't have more than, say, 125 members total. The estimates I've seen in articles here and there over the last decade have ranged 100-115 members. Not 140-150 members or more.
As far as their cap, D'Arco said their cap was 125-140 members. Capeci, who wrote the D'Arco book incidentally, put the cap at 300 in his earlier book Idiots Guide to the Mafia. Not sure what he based that on. Figures from Joe Bonanno or Joe Valachi maybe.
They've inducted possibly as much as 15-20 guys in the past decade, you have to consider that.
They had around 180 in the mid-1960s, though it's not known if that included the pro-Bonanno group (which was small) and Canada (around 20 members). This would have been the better part of a decade since the last inductions, so their original cap would have been well over 200 either way you cut it.
Between 2001 and 2005 they made a large number of members. Pogo or JD could give a more accurate number than I could. Unless there is more context, the "less than 100" estimate from 2006 probably refers to members on the street. Frank Lino had been away for a while by the time of the family meltdown in the early-mid 2000s, so I don't know that he would have the most accurate estimate.
Pogo has about 50 guys dead since 1998 and more than 50 members being made since 2001, so the available info points to them more than replenishing their ranks.
Pogo The Clown wrote: ↑Sat Jan 13, 2018 12:43 pm
Yeah I have 130-132 members on my list not counting the reamining Montreal members. Just recently they lost 3 members (Gerry Chilli, Peter Lovaglio and Vincenzo Morena). So about 150 members for the Bonannos would be more accurate
Pogo
Are you talking about presently or like 15 years ago?
As said above, this topic has already been done before but I still lean towards the Bonannos maybe getting up as high as 140-150 members in the early-to-mid 2000s (before the indictments and defections started coming) only if the 20 or so Montreal members were a part of those estimates.
As I've pointed out before, there were 111 known members on Robert Lino's no contact list (which included himself) in 2001. This figure is close to what Frank Lino testified about the family having 12 captains and approximately 100 soldiers in 2003. By 2004 to 2005 is when you start to see those bigger estimates being published. However, according to the FBI, wiretaps filed in the Basciano case revealed the family had less than 100 soldiers in 2006. The family has also had something like 15 guys flip who they're technically not allowed to replace until the defector dies.
Would it be more accurate to say the Bonannos have 100/120 “active” members?
Also does anyone know what the Bonannos ‘membership cap’ was/is?
Given the info I posted above, I'm of the opinion the present day Bonannos don't have more than, say, 125 members total. The estimates I've seen in articles here and there over the last decade have ranged 100-115 members. Not 140-150 members or more.
As far as their cap, D'Arco said their cap was 125-140 members. Capeci, who wrote the D'Arco book incidentally, put the cap at 300 in his earlier book Idiots Guide to the Mafia. Not sure what he based that on. Figures from Joe Bonanno or Joe Valachi maybe.
I don´t think there is a cap, maybe in Jerry Capeci´s head only. When the feds started to investigate the Mafia in the late 1950s/early 1960s, CIs never talked about a cap. Although going through the rules quite thoroughly, none of them ever mentioned a cap, an essential and important cornerstone when going through the rules I would think. It was Capeci who wrote the D´Arco´s book, perhaps he put it there and made it sound like it was coming from D´Arco. If you don´t mind and off the top of your head, can you point out in what section of the book the info on caps can be found in and I´ll try to find the quote.
Pogo The Clown wrote: ↑Sat Jan 13, 2018 12:43 pm
Yeah I have 130-132 members on my list not counting the reamining Montreal members. Just recently they lost 3 members (Gerry Chilli, Peter Lovaglio and Vincenzo Morena). So about 150 members for the Bonannos would be more accurate
Pogo
Are you talking about presently or like 15 years ago?
As said above, this topic has already been done before but I still lean towards the Bonannos maybe getting up as high as 140-150 members in the early-to-mid 2000s (before the indictments and defections started coming) only if the 20 or so Montreal members were a part of those estimates.
As I've pointed out before, there were 111 known members on Robert Lino's no contact list (which included himself) in 2001. This figure is close to what Frank Lino testified about the family having 12 captains and approximately 100 soldiers in 2003. By 2004 to 2005 is when you start to see those bigger estimates being published. However, according to the FBI, wiretaps filed in the Basciano case revealed the family had less than 100 soldiers in 2006. The family has also had something like 15 guys flip who they're technically not allowed to replace until the defector dies.
Would it be more accurate to say the Bonannos have 100/120 “active” members?
Also does anyone know what the Bonannos ‘membership cap’ was/is?
Given the info I posted above, I'm of the opinion the present day Bonannos don't have more than, say, 125 members total. The estimates I've seen in articles here and there over the last decade have ranged 100-115 members. Not 140-150 members or more.
As far as their cap, D'Arco said their cap was 125-140 members. Capeci, who wrote the D'Arco book incidentally, put the cap at 300 in his earlier book Idiots Guide to the Mafia. Not sure what he based that on. Figures from Joe Bonanno or Joe Valachi maybe.
I don´t think there is a cap, maybe in Jerry Capeci´s head only. When the feds started to investigate the Mafia in the late 1950s/early 1960s, CIs never talked about a cap. Although going through the rules quite thoroughly, none of them ever mentioned a cap, an essential and important cornerstone when going through the rules I would think. It was Capeci who wrote the D´Arco´s book, perhaps he put it there and made it sound like it was coming from D´Arco. If you don´t mind and off the top of your head, can you point out in what section of the book the info on caps can be found in and I´ll try to find the quote.
I thought there was a cap introduced so one family could not get way more powerful than the other families ???
B. wrote: ↑Sun Jan 14, 2018 2:00 am
Pogo has about 50 guys dead since 1998 and more than 50 members being made since 2001, so the available info points to them more than replenishing their ranks.
And these are most likely low numbers for both categories. There are always plenty of guys we don't know about.
There are more than 125 members. Like I've said we have already IDEd 130 confirmed members not counting Montreal. Throw in those we don't know about and 150 is not that hard to believe. Sal Vitale had them at that number. JD posted testimony from Massino which also had them at 150-160 when he was Boss.
Pogo
It's a new morning in America... fresh, vital. The old cynicism is gone. We have faith in our leaders. We're optimistic as to what becomes of it all. It really boils down to our ability to accept. We don't need pessimism. There are no limits.
