Transcript of Patriarca and Bianco

[HairyKnuckles]

"He [Tony Buckaloo] took me to the El Cortile [Il Cortile] Reataurant on Mulberry Street where Buckaloo and I went downstairs to meet with Funzi Tieri..."

The place was a retaurant when Cafaro was made.

The likely year Franzese was made is 1977. One of the other inductees was Vito Guzzo Sr according to Franzese himself. Guzzo was in prison from October 1974 (at least) and released in first half of 1977. So he cannot have been made in 1975.

The books were closed from appr 1958 to Jan 1976 for the NY Families. Nobody was getting in. Making people was back in the day regulated and exceptions weren´t made for nobody. That would mean chaos if one family was allowed to make new members but the other ones not. The smaller Families recruited guys but only after the Commission´s approval. Alphonse Persico was made into Bufalino Family (one of the smaller Families) and transferred to the Colombos around 1972.

[Pogo The Clown]

The likely year Franzese was made is 1977. One of the other inductees was Vito Guzzo Sr according to Franzese himself. Guzzo was in prison from October 1974 (at least) and released in first half of 1977. So he cannot have been made in 1975.

Thanks. I had forgotten who it was that was in prison. Another thing that points to the ceremony being in 1977 was Franzese saying that he and some of the guy's that were made with him were put with Capo Andy Russo. Russo himself was not made until January/Febraury 1976 and not promoted to Capo until 1977 (maybe late 1976),


Pogo

[SILENT PARTNERZ]

"He [Tony Buckaloo] took me to the El Cortile [Il Cortile] Reataurant on Mulberry Street where Buckaloo and I went downstairs to meet with Funzi Tieri..."

The place was a retaurant when Cafaro was made.

The likely year Franzese was made is 1977. One of the other inductees was Vito Guzzo Sr according to Franzese himself. Guzzo was in prison from October 1974 (at least) and released in first half of 1977. So he cannot have been made in 1975.

The books were closed from appr 1958 to Jan 1976 for the NY Families. Nobody was getting in. Making people was back in the day regulated and exceptions weren´t made for nobody. That would mean chaos if one family was allowed to make new members but the other ones not. The smaller Families recruited guys but only after the Commission´s approval. Alphonse Persico was made into Bufalino Family (one of the smaller Families) and transferred to the Colombos around 1972.

Why was Alphonse Persico made with Bufalino? Did he live in Scranton area or, did he know Russell Bufalino due to
the days RB spent in NYC every week? Thanks, SP

[B.]

When someone is inducted, it is typically a busy period: a whirlwind of new business opportunities, introductions to other members, new information, conversations and meetings they previously wouldn't have had access to. It isn't surprising that some guys would forget. People have a hard enough time remembering their wedding anniversary, and they knew the date of that in advance, their wife reminds them every year, it's written on legal documents, etc. Yet people still forget their anniversary with all of that.

In a lot of cases, at least historically, a guy doesn't know the details of his making ceremony in advance. There are exceptions, but according to most informants and witnesses, a guy isn't told, "The ceremony is going to be on month/day/year." Many of them are given a general heads up a short time before the date, but unless there was another event in their lives or something big in the news at the time, they wouldn't have a reason to remember the specific date. The mob doesn't have "initiation anniversary parties" to remind them of the date every year and to some of them the date may not be important -- they were inducted and that's what matters to them. I have to think for a second sometimes to remember the exact year I graduated high school and I remember the month but no way in Hell can I remember the exact day... I don't care at all to remember graduating high school, but it was important to me that I graduated. Does that make sense?

On the subject of transfers, Alphonse Persico would have been made and transferred to the Colombos in 1971. Bianco was transferred back to the Patriarca family in early 1973. The informant mentioned in the other Bianco thread that other Colombo members were following Bianco's lead and requesting transfers around 1973 but were turned down and told "No more transfers." Would be interesting to know if shutting down transfers that year was specific to the Colombo and if it was temporary, or if it applied to other families and/or was a permanent rule.

[yatescj7781]

My earlier post I said Amato, my mistake.what I meant was Vito Borelli. Sal Vitale said Gotti was involved in the hit in 1976. Was he wrong? Was Gotti not in jail at this point? The main reason the books were closed in all I have read was Carlo Gambino. Yet he was still alive in January of 76. I have read reports of Russo being acting capo in 75.

On the second subject, Bianco was made in the early 60s. So what did they do? ten years later they realize bianco transferred and they decided to try it? Did Allie Persico do it and everyone just said "Oh shucks" the Persico's slipped one in us when the books were closed? That's not how wiseguys worked. If the Colombo Family got a guy made then there would be a sitdown beforehand or afterword and compromises would be made. The Genovese,Gambino,Lucchese,and Bonanno Family aren't going to let the Colombos make a guy(even via transfer) and not have at least one of their top guys get their button.

Bufalino was closest to the Genovese. It only makes sense that the other 3 do the same. The Bonanno's were on the outs so maybe not them. But it is entirely plausible the Families made at least a few guys before 76

[B.]

On the second subject, Bianco was made in the early 60s. So what did they do? ten years later they realize bianco transferred and they decided to try it? Did Allie Persico do it and everyone just said "Oh shucks" the Persico's slipped one in us when the books were closed? That's not how wiseguys worked. If the Colombo Family got a guy made then there would be a sitdown beforehand or afterword and compromises would be made. The Genovese,Gambino,Lucchese,and Bonanno Family aren't going to let the Colombos make a guy(even via transfer) and not have at least one of their top guys get their button.

Transfers were pretty common pre-1930s due to all of the guys moving around. Valachi claims that transfers were not only allowed after that, but mandatory if someone lived in the city of another family or 6+ months. I don't know what to think of that since it seems like a number of members lived in territory run by other families over the years. This may have been a rule Valachi heard early on (i.e. 1930s/40s) and it faded over time, especially with smaller families around the country getting weaker by the 1960s.

With Allie Persico, it seems the other NYC families would have had to allow it, which they must have as we know he was recognized as a member and met with high-ranking members of other families. It would have also been allowed by the Colombo leadership and the boss who made him (I know Bufalino has been mentioned but sure if that's been confirmed). You also have to figure that other families likely made guys similarly during other years when the books were closed.

By that time Carmine Persico was a major power in the family, seemingly with support from other families, and the Colombos were in yet another period of dangerous instability. I imagine the argument could have been made that by making Allie, the family was maintaining what little balance of power there was in the family. After Colombo's shooting, what was left of the Gallo crew would continue to create problems in the family, and there were at least three distinct factions forming in the rest of the family: one group was loyal to Joe Yacovelli and would push him as boss, another was loyal to Persico and supported DiBella, and then there was the "neutral" faction led by Franzese/Brancato.