Gangland news 14th December 2017

[Camo]

Crea kinda sounds like an idiot. Weird that there's been a cult built around him on these forums.

he was predominantly responsible the successful rebuilding of the clan

How do you know this? I'm not aware of any "rebuilding" of the Lucchese's, and if that's a thing how do you know it was predominantly Crea's doing? Wasn't Matty Madonna above him per the reports? Didn't Madonna spend 20 years or whatever in jail why is Crea the guy that rebuilt the Family and not the guy who has been reported as above him?

I think there's alot of assumptions on your part there. Not saying they are wrong, i have abolutely no idea and have never pretended otherwise. Neither do you though.

[Camo]

Also there's definitely a weird Crea cult here. I remember Cheech pointed out that every argument against Pizzaboy/East Bronx was due to GBB people taking things he said too seriously or too far. I think that's what has happened with Crea as all the people who quickly say he is the boss and he is standup or whatever are people like me who have no idea, Cheech who talks to PB has said he trusts him but he himself has no clue and is open to the possibillity that EB/PB is wrong/mistaken/whatever. The GBB members here not naming names are the ones absolutely positive that Crea is boss because he's *whatever PB/EB said out of context*.

Pogo has pointed out cults forming around other members before, i think there was one for John Gambino before his death. There's definitely a weird one for Crea here.

[SonnyBlackstein]

How do you know this? I'm not aware of any "rebuilding" of the Lucchese's, and if that's a thing how do you know it was predominantly Crea's doing? Wasn't Matty Madonna above him per the reports? Didn't Madonna spend 20 years or whatever in jail why is Crea the guy that rebuilt the Family and not the guy who has been reported as above him?

So here we go. Crea vs Madonna.

Crea was made UB in ‘93. He was the guy who steadied the ship immediately after Amuso and Casso were apprehended.
Madonna wasn’t even made until 98.
Crea was acting boss from 98-00, the year Madonna was made.
When Crea went away Madonnna was on a panel running the family, the panel was disbanded upon his release.

So Crea was effectively in charge for a decade following the Amuso/ Casso debacle, so yeah, I think that qualifies him as getting the credit for any rebuilding or ‘stabiliaation’.

[SonnyBlackstein]

Also there's definitely a weird Crea cult here.....There's definitely a weird one for Crea here.

Did you not read my response to this?

Again:
1. Crea has been at the pinnacle (in the admin) of one the five families, since 1993.
1993. It’s 2017. That’s 24 years, at the pinnacle.
2. He’s incredibly financially successful. A true ‘racketeer’. And white collar stuff, not meat head loan shit anyone with steroids and a pistol can do.
3. A legitimate tough guy. He’s an ex boxer who, in his day, could seriously kick your ass.
4. A standup guy. He’s been in an out of jail numerous times. And his latest, he’s (so far), standing tall even when his son’s on the line.

If ever there was a penned mob character, it’s this guy.

How the fuck is this so weird?

[Camo]

How do you know this? I'm not aware of any "rebuilding" of the Lucchese's, and if that's a thing how do you know it was predominantly Crea's doing? Wasn't Matty Madonna above him per the reports? Didn't Madonna spend 20 years or whatever in jail why is Crea the guy that rebuilt the Family and not the guy who has been reported as above him?

So here we go. Crea vs Madonna.

He was the guy who steadied the ship immediately

How did he do this? What did he do to steady the ship, sources please? Crea was indicted in 2000, what did he do to change the family between 1993 and then?

Madonna wasn’t even made until 98.

I'm not claiming anything about Madonna, i have no clue what him or Crea are like. All i'm saying is it was reported that Madonna was above Crea, which to me makes it absurd that Crea "rebuilt" the family especially when he only got released in 2006 with restrictions.

So Crea was effectively in charge for a decade

What decade? He was indicted in 2000 and was in jail 2004-2006.

[Camo]

Sorry that messed up, my answers are within that quote.

[Camo]

Also there's definitely a weird Crea cult here.....There's definitely a weird one for Crea here.

Did you not read my response to this?

You know i made both of those posts before you responded to it, right?

[SonnyBlackstein]

All i'm saying is it was reported that Madonna was above Crea, which to me makes it absurd that Crea "rebuilt" the family especially when he only got released in 2006 with restrictions.

Because when Crea was made UB and then acting in 93 and 98, MADONNA WASNT EVEN MADE. hence HE steadied the ship and not Madonna.

[Camo]

All i'm saying is it was reported that Madonna was above Crea, which to me makes it absurd that Crea "rebuilt" the family especially when he only got released in 2006 with restrictions.

Because when Crea was made UB and then acting in 93 and 98, MADONNA WASNT EVEN MADE. hence HE steadied the ship and not Madonna.

That would be an answer if i claimed Madonna steadied the ship but i clearly said i'm claiming nothing about Madonna. How did Crea steady the ship between 93 and 98 exactly, he was on a ruling panel right? Ignore that actually how did the Lucchese's improve between 93-98 exactly? Was there less rats? Less Indictments? What are you even claiming?

[Camo]

All i'm saying is it was reported that Madonna was above Crea, which to me makes it absurd that Crea "rebuilt" the family especially when he only got released in 2006 with restrictions.

Because when Crea was made UB and then acting in 93 and 98, MADONNA WASNT EVEN MADE. hence HE steadied the ship and not Madonna.

That would be an answer if i claimed Madonna steadied the ship but i clearly said i'm claiming nothing about Madonna. How did Crea steady the ship between 93 and 98 exactly, he was on a ruling panel right? Ignore that actually how did the Lucchese's improve between 93-98 exactly? Was there less rats? Less Indictments? What are you even claiming?

[Camo]

Sorry about the double posts btw guys, using my phone i'll not quote people and hopefully that'll help.

[SonnyBlackstein]

All i'm saying is it was reported that Madonna was above Crea, which to me makes it absurd that Crea "rebuilt" the family especially when he only got released in 2006 with restrictions.

Because when Crea was made UB and then acting in 93 and 98, MADONNA WASNT EVEN MADE. hence HE steadied the ship and not Madonna.

That would be an answer if i claimed Madonna steadied the ship but i clearly said i'm claiming nothing about Madonna. How did Crea steady the ship between 93 and 98 exactly, he was on a ruling panel right? Ignore that actually how did the Lucchese's improve between 93-98 exactly? Was there less rats? Less Indictments? What are you even claiming?

You state you’re claiming nothing about Madonna yet you previously state it’s ‘absurd’ Crea rebuilt the family considering he was under Madonna.
I’ve demonstrated Crea was at the pinnacle of the family for almost a decade during the post Casso/Amuso reign whilst Madonna wasn’t even made. This is in response to your claim Crea couldn’t have rebuilt the family since he was under Madonna. A situation not occurring until almost two decades later. So your claim Crea couldn’t have rebuilt since he was under Madonna is clearly a nonsense.
I don’t know how else to explain this.

To answer your follow up questions:
It is CLEAR the period 93-2000 was DEMONSTRABLY better for the family than the Casso/Amuso reign. ANY basic research or perspective will undeniably confirm this. That the fallout from their reign continued throughout Crea’s tenure is sure, but again, that lies at the feet of Casso/Amuso. And considering Madonna wasn’t even on the scene through most of this post reign period, and Crea was UB and Acting, then, again, clearly Crea steadied the ship. Perhaps not solely, but in a large part.

Again, people respect Crea for good reason. He has been a/the key player on the streets for the family for 25 years, excluding his incarceration’s.

This is again, attempting to clarify your confusion on the interest and respect Crea holds on the boards.

[B.]

These kinds of discussions usually go nowhere because you have to define power and people have different views on what that is. One thing for sure is that "power" isn't black and white. Madonna as acting boss doesn't take away from Crea's position or power and vice versa. It's like the Gigante/Salerno discussion -- Gigante being the official boss didn't take anything away from Salerno. He was a Commission rep with massive influence within the Genovese family and even outside of NYC. Crea is the underboss of the Lucchese family and has significant influence within the entire family and probably beyond. The acting boss title doesn't necessarily mean someone is more powerful than another member, either. Someone may be the acting boss because they are more trusted by the boss/family leaders, closer to the boss, can facilitate communication easier, etc. There are endless reasons reasons why someone may be an acting boss rather than someone else who is "more powerful."

Not sure how the year a guy is made would factor into this debate, though. Guys are rarely given boss/underboss positions based on seniority. There are many relatively "new" guys in various families who have become boss over senior leaders in the family. Once someone is a member, all doors to the family hierarchy can open based on circumstance.

[Camo]

I said it's absurd because there was someone above him, i made no claims that the Lucchese's had been "rebuilt" that was you. Everything has stabilized mob wise since the mid 2000's or so, i don't believe it was any one person more shifting priorities for the Feds. Also if it was one person Crea was in prison or under indictment when i see evidence of the family stabilising: the mid 2000's.

You keep trying to frame my argument as Madonna vs Crea going as far as to crop out part of my quote saying i make no claim about Madonna. I'm not dumb Sonny please argue honestly or don't at all. I made no claim that " Crea couldn’t have rebuilt since he was under Madonna", quote where i said that please?

What i did say was that you were making claims that Crea rebuilt the family, why is it not possible that it was someone else like Madonna who was said to be above him. That was purely an example i'm fine with you going with whoever else, Dinapoli, or i don't care, my only point was you were speculating that Crea had "rebuilt the family" without anything to tell you that was the case. If you were to go by the Feds info then someone was above him, otherwise you're deciding that Crea did it himself without any evidence.

Demonstrate that 93-2000 was better than the prior years please? You said it was DEMONSTRABLY better.

[Camo]

B. i've made no claims about Crea's power unless i've posted something by mistake. All i'm saying is some members have a boner for Crea and it's weird.

Sonny is not one of the members i was thinking of for the record.