Chicago Outfit Lineage Chart 1928-2017

[Frank]

Here's one doc which states that in 1970 Ricca still had the last word

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.htm ... 6&tab=page

Thanks Villain, these are great examples and proof that Ricca was the top boss still active. It is also proof of the top boss and a chief executive two boss system.

[Villain]

Here's one doc which states that in 1970 Ricca still had the last word

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.htm ... 6&tab=page

Thanks Villain, these are great examples and proof that Ricca was the top boss still active. It is also proof of the top boss and a chief executive two boss system.

Yes and i also think that it can explain the senior adviser role, meaning Accardos position which he kept until Riccas death and after that took his role as a top boss until 1983. Looks like they had a system of top boss, sr adviser and boss...so it is possible that Solly D holds the top position with D'Amico as senior adviser and Vena as the boss.

@Alex you're welcome

[Snakes]

I don't think they are direct lineages for those positions. I'd think Andriacchi would still be on there somewhere.

[Frank]

Here's one doc which states that in 1970 Ricca still had the last word

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.htm ... 6&tab=page

Thanks Villain, these are great examples and proof that Ricca was the top boss still active. It is also proof of the top boss and a chief executive two boss system.

Yes and i also think that it can explain the senior adviser role, meaning Accardos position which he kept until Riccas death and after that took his role as a top boss until 1983. Looks like they had a system of top boss, sr adviser and boss...so it is possible that Solly D holds the top position with D'Amico as senior adviser and Vena as the boss.

@Alex you're welcome

Yes that seems like what it is right now.

[Villain]

Yes that seems like what it is right now.

And if that's the case then this changes the whole chart meaning we have to trace the origins of this kind of system or in other words, when did it possibly started because I dont think that they had the same type of hierarchy during the 1930's. My personal pick is that the sr adviser role was formed after the Hollywood extortion case or during the late 1940's when new bosses were rising on the scene while at the same time the old ones got out of jail and some of em had to take a low profile

[Frank]

I don't think they are direct lineages for those positions. I'd think Andriacchi would still be on there somewhere.

Unless Addriacchi is totally retired, maybe he is top boss with SolleyD as boss and Vena just a go between with Solly Delaurentis or Cataudella. That's the thing with the Outfit, when you think you figured it out there is another piece to the puzzle.

[Villain]

I don't think they are direct lineages for those positions. I'd think Andriacchi would still be on there somewhere.

What about the rumors regarding his bad health? Is it possible that its same story as DiFronzo's alleged retirement because of dementia, meaning is it possible that Andriacchi is also out of the game? I mean the guy is in his late 80's i think

[Pete]

I don't think they are direct lineages for those positions. I'd think Andriacchi would still be on there somewhere.

Yeah I think the issue here is taking one point in history and then trying to make everything else align with that. Just because a certain system may or may not have been used does not mean it's still that way. Also it's important to not say well all this is wrong in these documents but then jumping on another point as absolute proof that this is the way it was and the way it will always be. Obviously everyone is free to believe what they want I just don't believe it's nearly as hierarchical as it once was. I also don't think the whole thing is as complicated as it's being made to be here. Just my opinion but it's good discussion though

[SILENT PARTNERZ]

I don't think they are direct lineages for those positions. I'd think Andriacchi would still be on there somewhere.

Yeah I think the issue here is taking one point in history and then trying to make everything else align with that. Just because a certain system may or may not have been used does not mean it's still that way. Also it's important to not say well all this is wrong in these documents but then jumping on another point as absolute proof that this is the way it was and the way it will always be. Obviously everyone is free to believe what they want I just don't believe it's nearly as hierarchical as it once was. I also don't think the whole thing is as complicated as it's being made to be here. Just my opinion but it's good discussion though

+1 on your thoughts Pete. IMO, Ricca and Accardo were very close and trusted each other.
They ran the Outfit in a power sharing agreement. Ricca probably had final say. After
the two of them are gone for good, who knows how its set up.

[Snakes]

Pete's right. The organization is much smaller now so having a big organizational structure is almost a case of "too many chiefs, not enough Indians." Here is how I see it currently:

DiFronzo: Almost certainly retired. Both official and "non-official" sources state his dementia is real bad. Any remaining affairs of his are probably managed by his brother, Pete.

Andriacchi: Semi-retired. Almost certainly has a position of some seniority but I don't think he's running the day-to-day activities at all. Still, I like to ask myself a hypothetical question: "Would someone be worried if they did something that upset him?" If the answer is "yes," he still has some measure of "elder statesman" type of authority.

DeLaurentis: Alleged day-to-day boss.

Cataudella: Alleged underboss. This is somewhat confusing because most of the things an underboss would do is described as what Vena does as "street boss." I'd say Cataudella is just another layer of insulation.

Vena: Alleged "street boss." From what I can gather, relays instructions to the streets and other crews.

Inendino/Caruso/Fratto: Crew bosses

D'Amico: An enigma to me. He may just be a senior level guy who is direct with the bosses but with some measure of say over the Elmwood Park area, which he allegedly still has influence in. Not sure at all what to make of his alleged "consigliere" status.

[Frank]

I don't think they are direct lineages for those positions. I'd think Andriacchi would still be on there somewhere.

Yeah I think the issue here is taking one point in history and then trying to make everything else align with that. Just because a certain system may or may not have been used does not mean it's still that way. Also it's important to not say well all this is wrong in these documents but then jumping on another point as absolute proof that this is the way it was and the way it will always be. Obviously everyone is free to believe what they want I just don't believe it's nearly as hierarchical as it once was. I also don't think the whole thing is as complicated as it's being made to be here. Just my opinion but it's good discussion though

Pete we are just going to agree to disagree on this. I thought Snakes posted that an informant said Sarno was kicking up to DiFronzo during Sarno's time as boss. Also what about the shelving of Mike Magnifichi by DiFronzo. I don't know if it's complicated, but it seems to have worked for most of the top bosses, it's the insulation the top boss received.

[electricslim]

I don't think they are direct lineages for those positions. I'd think Andriacchi would still be on there somewhere.

Yeah I think the issue here is taking one point in history and then trying to make everything else align with that. Just because a certain system may or may not have been used does not mean it's still that way. Also it's important to not say well all this is wrong in these documents but then jumping on another point as absolute proof that this is the way it was and the way it will always be. Obviously everyone is free to believe what they want I just don't believe it's nearly as hierarchical as it once was. I also don't think the whole thing is as complicated as it's being made to be here. Just my opinion but it's good discussion though

Pete we are just going to agree to disagree on this. I thought Snakes posted that an informant said Sarno was kicking up to DiFronzo during Sarno's time as boss. Also what about the shelving of Mike Magnifichi by DiFronzo. I don't know if it's complicated, but it seems to have worked for most of the top bosses, it's the insulation the top boss received.

Not sure DiFronzo specifically shelved Mags. He had borrowed a large sum of money from Joe Andriacchi, and failed to pay him back. That combined with his drug and alcohol abuse. He explains a bit in one of the "sports" podcasts he did with Joe Fosco.

[Frank]

Ok that's very interesting about Mags. But if we are going to refer to Fosco, he has no problem with referring to DiFronzo as the Top Boss of the Outfit.Also what about Sarno kicking up to DiFronzo.

[Villain]

I'll disagree that the Outfit often changed their type of system out of obvious reasons. For example, there are strong facts that this kind of system with a top boss and boss, lasted for more than 50 years or from the 1930's until the 1980's when things are beginning to get quite blurry. Another example was the underboss position, where one member who had control over the First Ward, also held the position and this type of system continued to function like that until 1970, which means it lasted for almost 40 years. Now, we dont have any kind of info that everything continued in that kind of style but we also dont have any kind of info that it didnt.

As for the senior adviser role, ask yourselves what did Ricca do when he got out of prison in 1947 and Campagna became the top boss? Or what was Accardo's role after the deaths of Campagna and Capezio, or during the mid and late 1960's after he managed to beat his tax trial? Or the alleged rumors about Joey Lombardo when he got out of prison?

[Snakes]

I'll agree that it was fairly consistent from the '30s to the '80s, but it's anyone's guess as far as the last 30 years is concerned. We just simply don't have enough information, especially for the last 10 or 15 years.