Present Day Chicago Outfit

[Snakes]

I still do not know where you are getting this from. Don Herion wrote two whole books about his experiences as a Chicago cop battling the Outfit. He even listed seven pages worth of guys busted for illegal gambling during his time on the force. He posted photos of his crew busting up underground craps games and he even went to testify in front of a Congressional Committee on illegal gambling and organized crime.

[Frank]

I really don't expect Outfit member and associates to be dressed like it's the 1940s like Dom Cirillo.

[Confederate]

I still do not know where you are getting this from. Don Herion wrote two whole books about his experiences as a Chicago cop battling the Outfit. He even listed seven pages worth of guys busted for illegal gambling during his time on the force. He posted photos of his crew busting up underground caps games and he even went to testify in front of a Congressional Committee on illegal gambling and organized crime.

Then Don Herion was an unusual Cop in Chicago. He probably was mad that he didn't get enough of a payoff. You can always cherry pick the opposite.
Nothing is ever 100%. For the last time, IN GENERAL, The Feds keep their information secret and do not involve the local cops because of fear one of them will inform the people being investigated. I have two first cousins who are Police Officers not in Illinois.
Now, if you want to insist that the Feds use the local cops to gather information on victimless crimes like Bookmaking, then that further proves how weak the Outfit really is if the local cops don't even care to work with them anymore.
So, you win, you're right.

[Snakes]

There is no "win." There are baseless assumptions, of which you've made several in this thread, which I am attempting to disprove. I don't see how having cop relatives outside of Illinois is in any way at all relevant to the discussion here. Either way, I've said my piece.

[Snakes]

And suggesting that Herion was being paid off is preposterus. He was about as incorruptible as you can get. I'm going to go ahead and assume that you didn't read either of his books, otherwise you'd be aware that he was removed from the gambling task force for the simple fact that he did too good a job. He was probably as incorruptible as you can get.

[Confederate]

And suggesting that Herion was being paid off is preposterus. He was about as incorruptible as you can get. I'm going to go ahead and assume that you didn't read either of his books, otherwise you'd be aware that he was removed from the gambling task force for the simple fact that he did too good a job. He was probably as incorruptible as you can get.

The Don Herion statement I made WAS A SARCASTIC JOKE.

I told you how it generally works so you believe what you want and I'll believe what I know. The other comments about the remaining Outfit guys are just opinions. They aren't hard facts. A lot of the NY Posters agree with me that the Outfit is on it's last leg and the only people left to recruit are low class scumbags like Carparelli & Panozzo and his meth crew.
Like I said, if you insist that the local suburb cops are involved WITH THE FEDS in gathering information for victimless crimes like Bookmaking, then that further proves how weak the Outfit really is if they don't even want to work with them anymore.
So, have it your way. I said my piece.

[Pete]

There is no "win." There are baseless assumptions, of which you've made several in this thread, which I am attempting to disprove. I don't see how having cop relatives outside of Illinois is in any way at all relevant to the discussion here. Either way, I've said my piece.

It's obvious some people no matter how many facts you give them will continue to say they are right when they have nothing to back it up besides their cop relative in Alabama or whatever which has nothing to do with anything here. I linked an article on a state prosecution you referenced herions books and it's still not getting through. Hard to debate someone that is providing no facts or references to back up their argument. Best to move on

[FriendofFamily]

All I am willing to say about it is the Outfit still works.

Moving between the Illegal and moving into the gray area of Legal. To cleaning up into hiding it in Legal endeavors.

Suburbs where locals (LE) don't have resources.

Feds have other priorities but they do still work on it.

Federal - Human Trafficking has been their focus in Chicago for the last eight years - increasing their Unit size several fold.

Outfit still wants to control as many Judgeships as possible

Shifting resources to Immigration in the Federal Budget.

You can argue about what Sarno, Solly D, and Vena did do, didn't do, are doing - the Chicago Outfit is still moving

"Moving between illegal into the gray area of legal. to cleaning up into hiding it in legal endeavors".
So far really only true about the Elmwood Park guys. Haven't seem any evidence of this with any other crew.



" Suburbs where locals (LE) don't have resources"
Don't know what that means. The Local LE in suburbs don't build cases against the Outfit. They cooperate with Outfit instead. The Feds are the ones who build the cases. If local cop gives info to Feds, then he is an informant just like any other informant.

Agree with you on your Feds & Federal opinions about Priorities.

I agree with your statement about the suburbs
What I should have probably said and would be more characteristic was when one of them said "There are less eyes on us in the burbs". This was from the North side and I will leave it at that.

[cavita]

Somebody better tell Sallet the Outfit is dead because it's just all old guys now and no major indictments lately.

Basically correct. The Outfit is on its last leg. Sallett is there to put the final nails in the Coffin.

The outfit has been steady at its reduced membership for quite awhile. the outfit is definitely not "all old guys". They have guys involved in a wide range of ages especially guys in their 40's and 50's which is not old for a wise guy and these guys will be the next batch of leaders. Leadership is getting up there but that's normal. If sallet had some major prosecutions against grand avenue and Cicero it could maybe get close to being on its last legs but as stated
They've been steady for many years so without some major cases they will continue to be steady. There has actually been quite a few indictments coming down in the last years so the cases are there. There hasn't been any major indictments recently but the cases against fratto, matassa, carparelli, Mickey Davis, panozzo, koroluk, hollinghead, chucky Russell etc shows they are still active and commiting crimes. Last major fed indictment was sarno which was a decent amount of time time ago. As I said I bet there's something coming for vena pretty soon we will see though

I was being facetious about Sallet. Over the last 15 years or so it's been my personal opinion that the Outfit learned a lesson from the indictments of the 1990s and made themselves leaner in an effort to insulate themselves and limit prosecutions. The Family Secrets case couldn't be helped as the impetus to it started with crimes beginning in 1970. Despite what people say there are plenty of young guys that want in the Outfit but I think with their way of recruiting they groom these guys for years before actually making any of them. Call it a probationary period or whatever. Are there guys out there that are made that we don't know about? Possibly. I was surprised when Nick Calabrese named Frank Belmonte and Frank Furio as being made in the early 80s as I never knew they were made. They didn't even seem like up and comers yet here there were with made status. I don't think the Oufit will be dead in 10-15 years at all but it should be interesting to see what Sallet has planned and what the future holds for Chicago.

[Frank]

I guess that's the danger of making less members. If the Feds come up with a couple or more big cases it could be devastating.

[Snakes]

Somebody better tell Sallet the Outfit is dead because it's just all old guys now and no major indictments lately.

Basically correct. The Outfit is on its last leg. Sallett is there to put the final nails in the Coffin.

The outfit has been steady at its reduced membership for quite awhile. the outfit is definitely not "all old guys". They have guys involved in a wide range of ages especially guys in their 40's and 50's which is not old for a wise guy and these guys will be the next batch of leaders. Leadership is getting up there but that's normal. If sallet had some major prosecutions against grand avenue and Cicero it could maybe get close to being on its last legs but as stated
They've been steady for many years so without some major cases they will continue to be steady. There has actually been quite a few indictments coming down in the last years so the cases are there. There hasn't been any major indictments recently but the cases against fratto, matassa, carparelli, Mickey Davis, panozzo, koroluk, hollinghead, chucky Russell etc shows they are still active and commiting crimes. Last major fed indictment was sarno which was a decent amount of time time ago. As I said I bet there's something coming for vena pretty soon we will see though

I was being facetious about Sallet. Over the last 15 years or so it's been my personal opinion that the Outfit learned a lesson from the indictments of the 1990s and made themselves leaner in an effort to insulate themselves and limit prosecutions. The Family Secrets case couldn't be helped as the impetus to it started with crimes beginning in 1970. Despite what people say there are plenty of young guys that want in the Outfit but I think with their way of recruiting they groom these guys for years before actually making any of them. Call it a probationary period or whatever. Are there guys out there that are made that we don't know about? Possibly. I was surprised when Nick Calabrese named Frank Belmonte and Frank Furio as being made in the early 80s as I never knew they were made. They didn't even seem like up and comers yet here there were with made status. I don't think the Oufit will be dead in 10-15 years at all but it should be interesting to see what Sallet has planned and what the future holds for Chicago.

Did Nick name Furio as a made guy? I know Fred Pascente did in his book. Frank Belmonte is a guy who has nothing on him out there.

[cavita]

Shit. My bad, after rereading the testimony about the 1983 making ceremony I must have confused Frank Calabrese for Frank Furio. Nick did name Belmonte as a guy that was made at that ceremony and yes, there is nothing on him but I believe the DOJ stated that Belmonte died in 1985 so he was only a made member for only two years.
Kind of interesting that Nick stated Al Tocco and another man from Chicago Heights were made that day but the "other man" wasn't identified- any idea who he was?

[Snakes]

It was Nick Guzzino. Not sure why none of the books mention him by name.

[Confederate]

There is no "win." There are baseless assumptions, of which you've made several in this thread, which I am attempting to disprove. I don't see how having cop relatives outside of Illinois is in any way at all relevant to the discussion here. Either way, I've said my piece.

It's obvious some people no matter how many facts you give them will continue to say they are right when they have nothing to back it up besides their cop relative in Alabama or whatever which has nothing to do with anything here. I linked an article on a state prosecution you referenced herions books and it's still not getting through. Hard to debate someone that is providing no facts or references to back up their argument. Best to move on

Never said the first cousins were in Alabama. Another false assumption.
Many high ranking Police Officers in different states do know each other. As you would say, Dude, you need to do more research on the different levels of LE. But you are right Pete, The Outfit is a strong Organization with many younger very talented guys who couldn't wait to join.

[Pete]

It was Nick Guzzino. Not sure why none of the books mention him by name.

Yeah I believe calabrese said in his testimony it was guzzino. I always thought it was interesting in the spilotro hit it was calabrese, eboli, and Marino who killed Michael and there were 3 guys in the basement he had no idea who they were. I always assumed they were Chicago heights guys but Chicago heights was in charge of the burial so they were probably from somewhere else. Snakes you know anything about this?