Joe Biondo

[Frank]

Joe "Banti" Biondo was most definitely involved with drugs. He was involved with all the top guys and had his own crew going back to the early thirties.
There are numerous documented trips of him travelling to Sicily through the 40s and 50s meeting with several players that would later go down in the French connection.
He was made cosig in, I believe 1951. The shooters for the Anastasia hit all came from his crew. Steve ' "Cogan" Grammauta, Stefano "14th street Steve" Armone and Arnold Wittenberg. Steve Armone's brother Joe 'piney' was originally supposed to be involved but was arrested prior the hit.
All involved in AA's murder received promotions it seems and Joe Biondo was made Gambino's UB in 57.
He was removed in 65 when he was caught holding back $ from a landfill dump project he was involved in with Sam DeCavalcante.
I read on another thread Gambino originally ordered him killed and Biondo fled to Texas but he must have smoothed things over because he was allowed to return to New York in 67/8? where he lived til his death in 73 but was basically shelved in the end.

Great info on Biondo and the Anastasia hit.

[JeremyTheJew]

52 CAPOS.... that just doesnt sound right at all...

[SILENT PARTNERZ]

52 CAPOS.... that just doesnt sound right at all...

I saw/thought the same. They mention 52, but list
20 something. Have always red that Gambino
& Genovese were much bigger during that period.
I have also read that the five families were set up
basically as 2 big families. And 3 smaller families:
Genovese and Gambino - 200 to 250
Other three: 110 to 120ish
Do any of the experts here have insight?
thnx, SP

[HairyKnuckles]

52 CAPOS.... that just doesnt sound right at all...

The Gambino never had 52 Capos but they had 25 around that time. Its probably a typo in the report. Instead of 25, the typist reversed the numbers and typed 52.

[Antiliar]

I've seen estimates given for the Gambino and Genovese Families at 700 to 1000 made members. Joe Bonanno indicated that his Family had about 300 members in 1931. The fact is, we have many gaps in our knowledge about these groups, and there were probably many members who were under the radar, especially those who died before the 1963 Valachi hearing. Since out knowledge is limited, these higher numbers can't be ruled out. If true, then it means the replacement rate was slower than the rate people died off. It makes sense if we consider that in 1931 there were old-timers who were born in the 1860s, and maybe as far back as the 1840s. Not impossible. After all, we have several instances of members living to 100 or more, such as Sonny Franzese and former New England boss Phil Buccola, and quite a few Genovese guys have lived to their 90s.

[B.]

I've seen estimates given for the Gambino and Genovese Families at 700 to 1000 made members. Joe Bonanno indicated that his Family had about 300 members in 1931. The fact is, we have many gaps in our knowledge about these groups, and there were probably many members who were under the radar, especially those who died before the 1963 Valachi hearing. Since out knowledge is limited, these higher numbers can't be ruled out. If true, then it means the replacement rate was slower than the rate people died off. It makes sense if we consider that in 1931 there were old-timers who were born in the 1860s, and maybe as far back as the 1840s. Not impossible. After all, we have several instances of members living to 100 or more, such as Sonny Franzese and former New England boss Phil Buccola, and quite a few Genovese guys have lived to their 90s.

My personal belief about the extremely high estimates (I believe Greg Scarpa even told the FBI the Gambinos had 1000 men when he first started informing -- curious if he ever corrected this number) is that these informants were meeting/hearing about so many Gambino and Genovese members that they had a skewed perspective which inflated their estimate. This is pretty common even outside of the mob. It's like if you're in a room packed with 100 people, you might think there are several hundred.

When Joe Colombo took over as boss, he did a "census" through his captains and I believe the total number of members was around ~110. That was in the early-mid 1960s and members had died since the last inductions in 1957, but it is hard to believe more than 40 or so members had died between 1957-1963. I would guess they tended to hover around 150 members. Paul Sciacca claimed the Bonannos had ~180 around the same time period, but it's not clear if he's including the Bonanno loyalists and/or Montreal, so by the same logic as the Colombos, it's hard to believe they had more than 250 members in 1957. It's hard to argue with Joe Bonanno's own 300 number, though.

I don't know of any informants/wiretaps confirming the sizes of the Gambino, Genovese, or Lucchese families during the same period, but by most accounts the 1950s were the peak membership size of the families (if the membership limits for each family were the same ~1931 as ~1957, both eras could have been similar peaks), but that could also be an assumption that has become accepted like so many other assumptions about the mob.

All of that aside, I personally believe the sizes have stayed close to the same size (when the books are open and new recruits are available, at least) from 1931 through the mid-1980s. They of course had some big valleys in membership numbers as members died between the 1960s and 70s before the books opened up, and probably in the 1931-1940s period too, but I believe the peaks to be fairly consistent 1931-1980s. I have no idea how it is now -- as much as we've heard about the recruitment pool drying up and families shrinking, it seems like these days we're regularly hearing about new members and even captains who weren't even on our radar as associates. I wouldn't underestimate their ability to fill the ranks, at least for the time being, but again that's just my assumption based on the history of these groups.

[Pogo The Clown]

When Joe Colombo took over as boss, he did a "census" through his captains and I believe the total number of members was around ~110. That was in the early-mid 1960s and members had died since the last inductions in 1957, but it is hard to believe more than 40 or so members had died between 1957-1963.

Yeah it was 114 members in 1963/4. By 1976 (before the books were opened) the 5 families had dipped to


Gambino - 230 members
Lucchese - 109 members
Bonanno - 106 members
Colombo - 76 members


From this we can sort of extrapolate how big they were 20 years earlier. I don't have the number for the Genovese family but Valachi had them at "about 450" members in the late 1950s. I have also seen the Gambinos at 400 members during the same period. The Gambinos and Genovese families likely lost well over 100 members each in that time frame.


Pogo

[HairyKnuckles]

I vaguely recall that Biondo was involved in the Anastasia hit. I think he was consigliere or UB at the time and guys form his old crew organised it. I believe Steve Armone, brother of Joe Piney, was running his regime at the time.

If we go by the evidence we have, Biondo was consigliere during Mangano´s reign and probably during the first years of Anastasia´s rule. He doesn´t seem to have held a rank at the time of Anastasia´s death, being demoted sometime prior to the killing. Chirico/Conte were the underbosses and Carlo Gambino the consigliere. Although he held no rank at the time, he was held in high regard by all the factions within the Family. He was one of the the men who were put on Anastasia´s hit list which was the major cause for the strike against Anastasia. (Joe Franco, a capo, had revealed this hit list to the Biondo/Riccobono side.) And according to one informant, Biondo was "instrumental in keeping the Family together". I don´t remember the exact wording but it was to the effect of that he had gone to a great length to secure peace between Gambino and Rava/Dellacroce factions. Biondo was made underboss after Gambino´s crowning and Joe Riccobono, the capo of Biondo´s old crew, was made consigliere. Steve Armone was bumped up to replace Riccobono as crew leader.

He was demoted in 1965, see the link to the MF document posted earlier in this thread, and he was to be killed. But Gambino reinstated him as underboss after a while. The reason for this may be of dubious nature. Not sure if he had regained his respect with Gambino or if Gambino just wanted him close so he could keep an eye on him. Biondo died in 1966, not 1973 as referred to in an earlier post.

[Lupara]

All of that aside, I personally believe the sizes have stayed close to the same size (when the books are open and new recruits are available, at least) from 1931 through the mid-1980s.

This is what I believe as well. I also think that Bonanno's number is inflated. Didn't he also say his family was the smallest? That would make the Colombos and Luccheses even bigger. Also, if we go by our believes that the numbers of the 80s are similar to the 50s the Bonannos would rival the size of the Gambinos and Genoveses. If the Bonannos truly had so many members once I wonder why they weren't able to replenish those numbers.

I think Bonanno could have based his statement on the number of men Maranzano commanded during the war, including allies from within the other families.

[Lupara]

From this we can sort of extrapolate how big they were 20 years earlier. I don't have the number for the Genovese family but Valachi had them at "about 450" members in the late 1950s. I have also seen the Gambinos at 400 members during the same period. The Gambinos and Genovese families likely lost well over 100 members each in that time frame.


Pogo

That sounds like a lot. How many members passed away in the last 20 years? That should be comparable.

I am of the believe that the Gambinos and Genoveses topped around 300 at their prime.

[Pogo The Clown]

That sounds like a lot. How many members passed away in the last 20 years? That should be comparable.

Since 1998 the Gambinos have lost at least 105 members while the Genovese have lost at least 110 members. I'm sure I'm missing several members who have died during this period so the number of losses are of course even greater.


So from 1957-1975 I'm sure they lost a comparable amount. During that period all the early day members (those born pre-1910 or 1920) woulod have been dropping like flies.

I think Bonanno could have based his statement on the number of men Maranzano commanded during the war, including allies from within the other families.

He was refering to just his family.


Pogo

[B.]

One thing we don't know is if the families were close to maxing out their membership limit in 1957 when the books were abruptly closed. If they weren't, this may be the reason why the 1931 numbers were significantly higher -- they didn't have time to replace all of the members who had died. Not sure I believe that, though, as we know the 1940s/50s was a major recruitment period, maybe one of the biggest.

Pussy Russo mentions something about keeping the Genovese group at "300" here: https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.htm ... 3&tab=page
Because it is the FBI's summary of his comments and not his actual words, we don't know if he actually said it was "desired" to keep the family at 300. More likely the transcriber used the word "desired", meaning Russo said something more vague about keeping the family to 300. In my opinion, he's saying 300 is their cap.

It would also be good to know if the membership caps were established by 1931 or if those came later, maybe another response to the controversies of the 1950s (members buying buttons, "unqualified" guys getting in etc.)? If they weren't established until later, we really have no idea how big the families were in 1931. 400-450 doesn't sound unreasonable to me for the two bigger families (though I don't fully believe it), but any bigger than that is questionable. Historically mafia groups are very small -- the small families around the US are much more like their Sicilian counterparts -- so the idea of these families jumping from maybe several dozen members to ~500 would be huge. Possible, but do any sources talk about the growth being that exponential?

You also have to factor in that murdered members weren't supposed to be replaced. We had a good topic about this a while back, listing out the known murders for each family:
viewtopic.php?f=29&t=1424

12 Luccheses

28 Colombos

24 Bonannos

24 Gambinos

23 Genoveses

So whatever the caps originally were, we can subtract these from it. There are likely at least a few member murders we don't know of from the same period, and God help us try to figure out all of the member murders from the pre-1930s, if those even counted against the caps when they were instituted. The families have apparently allowed two "bonus" members each Christmas, with these bonus members theoretically replacing murdered members and members serving long prison sentences. Still, I would guess even with the bonus members they are barely keeping up, if at all, with the number of members dying of natural causes.

[Lupara]

I think Bonanno could have based his statement on the number of men Maranzano commanded during the war, including allies from within the other families.

He was refering to just his family.


Pogo

I know, but I think he may have based that number on the size of Maranzano's group. I've said this before, if the Bonannos had 300 members during the Bonanno era why didn't they replenish those numbers over the years? The recruitment pool was sufficient enough to sustain those numbers probably up until the 80s.

[Raven]

I vaguely recall that Biondo was involved in the Anastasia hit. I think he was consigliere or UB at the time and guys form his old crew organised it. I believe Steve Armone, brother of Joe Piney, was running his regime at the time.

If we go by the evidence we have, Biondo was consigliere during Mangano´s reign and probably during the first years of Anastasia´s rule. He doesn´t seem to have held a rank at the time of Anastasia´s death, being demoted sometime prior to the killing. Chirico/Conte were the underbosses and Carlo Gambino the consigliere. Although he held no rank at the time, he was held in high regard by all the factions within the Family. He was one of the the men who were put on Anastasia´s hit list which was the major cause for the strike against Anastasia. (Joe Franco, a capo, had revealed this hit list to the Biondo/Riccobono side.) And according to one informant, Biondo was "instrumental in keeping the Family together". I don´t remember the exact wording but it was to the effect of that he had gone to a great length to secure peace between Gambino and Rava/Dellacroce factions. Biondo was made underboss after Gambino´s crowning and Joe Riccobono, the capo of Biondo´s old crew, was made consigliere. Steve Armone was bumped up to replace Riccobono as crew leader.

He was demoted in 1965, see the link to the MF document posted earlier in this thread, and he was to be killed. But Gambino reinstated him as underboss after a while. The reason for this may be of dubious nature. Not sure if he had regained his respect with Gambino or if Gambino just wanted him close so he could keep an eye on him. Biondo died in 1966, not 1973 as referred to in an earlier post.

Great post Hairy. Any more info on this Anastasia hit list? Who else was on it?

[HairyKnuckles]

I vaguely recall that Biondo was involved in the Anastasia hit. I think he was consigliere or UB at the time and guys form his old crew organised it. I believe Steve Armone, brother of Joe Piney, was running his regime at the time.

If we go by the evidence we have, Biondo was consigliere during Mangano´s reign and probably during the first years of Anastasia´s rule. He doesn´t seem to have held a rank at the time of Anastasia´s death, being demoted sometime prior to the killing. Chirico/Conte were the underbosses and Carlo Gambino the consigliere. Although he held no rank at the time, he was held in high regard by all the factions within the Family. He was one of the the men who were put on Anastasia´s hit list which was the major cause for the strike against Anastasia. (Joe Franco, a capo, had revealed this hit list to the Biondo/Riccobono side.) And according to one informant, Biondo was "instrumental in keeping the Family together". I don´t remember the exact wording but it was to the effect of that he had gone to a great length to secure peace between Gambino and Rava/Dellacroce factions. Biondo was made underboss after Gambino´s crowning and Joe Riccobono, the capo of Biondo´s old crew, was made consigliere. Steve Armone was bumped up to replace Riccobono as crew leader.

He was demoted in 1965, see the link to the MF document posted earlier in this thread, and he was to be killed. But Gambino reinstated him as underboss after a while. The reason for this may be of dubious nature. Not sure if he had regained his respect with Gambino or if Gambino just wanted him close so he could keep an eye on him. Biondo died in 1966, not 1973 as referred to in an earlier post.

Great post Hairy. Any more info on this Anastasia hit list? Who else was on it?

Note that Joe N. Gallo is mentioned. I´ve seen elsewhere (I think it was in his FBI file) that he actually may have been one of the shooters. All these guys came from same crew. It´s interesting that the crew was willing to go against the boss of the Family when some of its key member´s lifes were threatened. Riccobono later explained, in front of the Commission, according to informant who I believe was Lombardozzi, that the group had acted in self defence.