General Mob Questions

[Ivan]

Yeah thats what I always thought about Western countries, safer and less tolerence to violence. But the data shows that America has a very high rate of murder, which is around 5/100000 per year, while Italy only get 0.7 of 100000 people murdered, which indicate Italy is pretty safe.

This figure is skewed though because it's for the entire country, and northern Italy is very rich and very safe. I'm sure the figure is much higher for Naples, Calabria, and Sicily. Mafia killings alone count for something like 10% of murders in Italy.

Mobsters are killers everywhere, they just don't do it in America because they can't get away with it.

[Slava]

Yeah thats what I always thought about Western countries, safer and less tolerence to violence. But the data shows that America has a very high rate of murder, which is around 5/100000 per year, while Italy only get 0.7 of 100000 people murdered, which indicate Italy is pretty safe. It seems that you still have to distinguish the western countries while talking about violence and murder, Britain and Germany is safer while France and USA doesnt seem to be.

America does have dangerous areas, but it's not the areas from which the Italian-American mobsters come from. In Italy, mobsters come from by far the most dangerous areas of that country. Other than the mob infested areas in the south, Italy is pretty safe. And even in the south it's not dangerous for tourists for the most part. Although that might be changing now when they imported so many illegal immigrants in the country.

[Confederate]

Yeah thats what I always thought about Western countries, safer and less tolerence to violence. But the data shows that America has a very high rate of murder, which is around 5/100000 per year, while Italy only get 0.7 of 100000 people murdered, which indicate Italy is pretty safe. It seems that you still have to distinguish the western countries while talking about violence and murder, Britain and Germany is safer while France and USA doesnt seem to be.

America does have dangerous areas, but it's not the areas from which the Italian-American mobsters come from. In Italy, mobsters come from by far the most dangerous areas of that country. Other than the mob infested areas in the south, Italy is pretty safe. And even in the south it's not dangerous for tourists for the most part. Although that might be changing now when they imported so many illegal immigrants in the country.

The Dangerous areas in America are where there is a high concentration of *******es. Last year in Chicago, there were 4,000 shootings and 80% were *******es shooting other *******es in certain PARTS of Chicago. This problem happens in many other big inner cities also. People in Italy do not have to deal with this ****### violence problem.

[gohnjotti]

In fact, I cant see any reason why american mobsters should be weaker than their Italian friends, they share a similar culture and young guys all like gym, the older guys with money and power maybe dont care about that so wherever you looks its similar, if you watched the movie version of Gomorra you will find there are plenty of fat old guys in Camorra, too. But I do share the same feeling with you that their senior members are generally younger, I assume thats because to become a Camorristi is dangerous LOL

The Camorristi in Naples grew up in a poorer and much more violent environment than the American LCN guys from New York. The young Camorristi ride around on bikes and spray building and people with automatic weapons, they kill much more people which means they have many more men experienced in killing and used to it. This isn't something positive obviously, but if we're speaking from the perspective of an organized crime group, the average up-and-coming Camorristi have much better qualities than the average LCN associates when it comes to being a criminal and a murderer.

As for your imagine, we both know you wouldnt do that

I didn't want to play some tough guy, obviously I wouldn't be doing that because it's dumb. I just wanted to illustrate that if I would meet some actual Italian-American mobster it would feel like some prank and I would instantly think of movies.

Let's be realistic though, if some tourist actually came to an Italian-American mob guy in NY and told him that he is a "fugazzi", what the hell could the Italian-American mobster do about it? If they killed or even just beat up a tourist this day and age the feds would be all over it and they know it. Murder/assault charges nicely wrapped in a RICO case. The LCN members are so scared of the feds these days that they very rarely use any violence at all. While if you talk crap in Naples you're going to get stabbed/shot quickly.

Trust me, you'd still get your ass beat. Recent cases in the past few years have proved beyond a reasonable doubt that mobsters still beat the hell out of people on the regular. There is only serious trouble for it if you're on probation, or if they make it "in-aid-of-racketeering." Other than that, petty assault charges go away pretty quickly unless someone loses an eye or something. Ernie Aiello beat the shit out of Mike Meldish right outside of Rao's restaurant, and dozens of people saw it and did nothing. Or maybe they called the police, who knows, but Aiello has never been charged even though the feds know full well it was him. Patsy Parrello ordered assaults like me and you order coffee.
Then you've got Jerry Balzano, DeCav soldier who beat up a dude who cut him off in traffic. Guy happened to have a dashcam, Balzano was on probation. Speaking of road rage, you got Vinny Asaro. Guy cuts him off, Vinny orders his car torched. Not to mention the dozens of other assaults that Vinny committed/ordered. I think he was at a social club and this street gang threw a bottle in his direction. Vinny, this old geezer, crossed the street and started pushing them all around. The street gang tried to avoid a fight with Vinny (who had taken his shirt off at this point), so he called over some goons from the social club and they gave a beatdown to all of them. Still, no retaliation from anyone, and nobody even called the cops.
There are dozens of other examples out there in recent years.

[Slava]

The Dangerous areas in America are where there is a high concentration of *******es. Last year in Chicago, there were 4,000 shootings and 80% were *******es shooting other *******es in certain PARTS of Chicago. This problem happens in many other big inner cities also. People in Italy do not have to deal with this ****### violence problem.

They will soon if they'll keep importing thousands of illegal migrants on a weekly basis.

Italy is changing fast. And it's for the worse...

[Slava]

Trust me, you'd still get your ass beat. Recent cases in the past few years have proved beyond a reasonable doubt that mobsters still beat the hell out of people on the regular. There is only serious trouble for it if you're on probation, or if they make it "in-aid-of-racketeering." Other than that, petty assault charges go away pretty quickly unless someone loses an eye or something. Ernie Aiello beat the shit out of Mike Meldish right outside of Rao's restaurant, and dozens of people saw it and did nothing. Or maybe they called the police, who knows, but Aiello has never been charged even though the feds know full well it was him. Patsy Parrello ordered assaults like me and you order coffee.
Then you've got Jerry Balzano, DeCav soldier who beat up a dude who cut him off in traffic. Guy happened to have a dashcam, Balzano was on probation. Speaking of road rage, you got Vinny Asaro. Guy cuts him off, Vinny orders his car torched. Not to mention the dozens of other assaults that Vinny committed/ordered. I think he was at a social club and this street gang threw a bottle in his direction. Vinny, this old geezer, crossed the street and started pushing them all around. The street gang tried to avoid a fight with Vinny (who had taken his shirt off at this point), so he called over some goons from the social club and they gave a beatdown to all of them. Still, no retaliation from anyone, and nobody even called the cops.
There are dozens of other examples out there in recent years.

I guess those people like Mike Meldish didn't press charges or something due to their omerta thing. What if someone (a civilian) was beat up by the mob and sued the mobster and pressed charges and everything, testify against the mobster in court?

On the other hand, what do you think would happen to a civilian if he beat a mobster in a road rage (let's say in self defense like if Balzano attacked a wrong guy in that road rage and got beat up)? I remember some boxer beat up Nino Gaggi in a heated argument back the the old days and Nino then had his car bombed, killing him. Would the mob try to retaliate these days?

[gohnjotti]

Trust me, you'd still get your ass beat. Recent cases in the past few years have proved beyond a reasonable doubt that mobsters still beat the hell out of people on the regular. There is only serious trouble for it if you're on probation, or if they make it "in-aid-of-racketeering." Other than that, petty assault charges go away pretty quickly unless someone loses an eye or something. Ernie Aiello beat the shit out of Mike Meldish right outside of Rao's restaurant, and dozens of people saw it and did nothing. Or maybe they called the police, who knows, but Aiello has never been charged even though the feds know full well it was him. Patsy Parrello ordered assaults like me and you order coffee.
Then you've got Jerry Balzano, DeCav soldier who beat up a dude who cut him off in traffic. Guy happened to have a dashcam, Balzano was on probation. Speaking of road rage, you got Vinny Asaro. Guy cuts him off, Vinny orders his car torched. Not to mention the dozens of other assaults that Vinny committed/ordered. I think he was at a social club and this street gang threw a bottle in his direction. Vinny, this old geezer, crossed the street and started pushing them all around. The street gang tried to avoid a fight with Vinny (who had taken his shirt off at this point), so he called over some goons from the social club and they gave a beatdown to all of them. Still, no retaliation from anyone, and nobody even called the cops.
There are dozens of other examples out there in recent years.

I guess those people like Mike Meldish didn't press charges or something due to their omerta thing. What if someone (a civilian) was beat up by the mob and sued the mobster and pressed charges and everything, testify against the mobster in court?

On the other hand, what do you think would happen to a civilian if he beat a mobster in a road rage (let's say in self defense like if Balzano attacked a wrong guy in that road rage and got beat up)? I remember some boxer beat up Nino Gaggi in a heated argument back the the old days and Nino then had his car bombed, killing him. Would the mob try to retaliate these days?

I don't know about Balzano, but I know that guys like Vinny Asaro and Sonny Franzese had a group of younger guys, Italian or not, kissing their ass. Guys like Fat Matt Rullan and John J. Gotti (the kid grandson) beat guys up for Asaro at the click of a finger. If Vinny Asaro got jumped on the street and those guys found out who did it, it'd be a competition between them of who could do the most damage to him and impress Vin the most. There's something about the allure of the Mafia that makes young criminals gravitate towards them. Perhaps they think it'll help them climb up the criminal ladder. Franzese also had that other goon, Chris Curanovic, smashing glass bottles on people's heads on behalf of Sonny.

[SonnyBlackstein]

I think he was at a social club and this street gang threw a bottle in his direction. Vinny, this old geezer, crossed the street and started pushing them all around. The street gang tried to avoid a fight with Vinny (who had taken his shirt off at this point), so he called over some goons from the social club and they gave a beatdown to all of them. Still, no retaliation from anyone, and nobody even called the police.

Where'd you hear about that?

[gohnjotti]

I think he was at a social club and this street gang threw a bottle in his direction. Vinny, this old geezer, crossed the street and started pushing them all around. The street gang tried to avoid a fight with Vinny (who had taken his shirt off at this point), so he called over some goons from the social club and they gave a beatdown to all of them. Still, no retaliation from anyone, and nobody even called the police.

Where'd you hear about that?

It was listed in his 2014 indictment. I'll have a look now.

[gohnjotti]

I think he was at a social club and this street gang threw a bottle in his direction. Vinny, this old geezer, crossed the street and started pushing them all around. The street gang tried to avoid a fight with Vinny (who had taken his shirt off at this point), so he called over some goons from the social club and they gave a beatdown to all of them. Still, no retaliation from anyone, and nobody even called the police.

Where'd you hear about that?

It was listed in his 2014 indictment. I'll have a look now.

CW-1 also has advised that in approximately 2005 or 2006, V. Asaro aided
and abetted the assault of teenagers or young men who were hanging out near a bodega
across the street from a social club in Ozone Park, New York that V. Asaro and other
Bonanno family members and associates frequented. The young men apparently had thrown
a bottle in the direction of the club one day. V. Asaro came out of the club and started
arguing with the young men, stating, in substance and in part, that he was going to “bust their
hole.” When they responded that they would not fight an old man, V. Asaro ripped off his
shirt, took off his glasses, put up his hands and stated, in substance and in part, “let’s go.”
The young men avoided a fight. Soon, additional young men arrived in the vicinity, and V.
Asaro summoned other Bonanno family members and associates. After V. Asaro pointed out
the young men to his associates, they began punching and chasing a few of the young men.
A few days later, V. Asaro sent CW-1 back to the club to check on it, and CW-1 reported
back to V. Asaro that the young men mentioned they were part of a gang but never retaliated.
Shortly thereafter, V. Asaro told CW-1, in substance and in part, to stay away from the club
because he did not want them to get arrested.

[gohnjotti]

This was in his detention memo.

[SonnyBlackstein]

Cheers Gohn

[Slava]

There's something about the allure of the Mafia that makes young criminals gravitate towards them. Perhaps they think it'll help them climb up the criminal ladder.

It's probably the crime movies, the video games, the TV series and the American popular culture, all of them fixated on the Italian-American mob far more than the other gangster groups. Let's face it, as much of a poor leader that John Gotti was he probably helped the mob long term with his image and legend. John Gotti and Gravano watched Godfather as an isnpiration, the next generation watched the John Gotti's rise and the new generation probably grew up on the Sopranos. I wonder what the next big thing about the LCN will be, if they can even produce an "inspirational" story again.

People underestimate how much these myths can influence dumb people.

[bronx]

GOTTI wanted to be albert a. gravano was just pure greed inspired .. vito corleone, was not someone these two modeled themselves after..but i do agree with your point on gotti having a lasting affect.

[gohnjotti]

Some people are brought in by the family, some brought in out of idolization for the famous guys like John Gotti, Vito Corleone, etc., some are brought in by greed, i.e. come from a poor background and associating with the mob is the quickest, easiest way to make money.