Rochester LCN

[Angelo Santino]

I've read about Rochester online and spoke to several people who delved into it. Rather than regurgitate it wikipedia summed it up:

Splitting from Buffalo[edit]
In 1964, Frank Valenti returned to Rochester with his brother Stan, and Pittsburgh associate Angelo Vaccaro. Frank became an associate in the Pittsburgh crime family in John LaRocca's family. Stan Valenti was married to Antonio Ripepi's daughter, who was a capo in the Pittsburgh family. This time, Frank Valenti was taking over the Rochester family. By the end of the year, Russo went missing and his body has never been found. In 1970, Valenti wiped out the last Russo soldier Billy Lupo. Also Frank Valenti told Buffalo crime family boss Stefano "The Undertaker" Magaddino that Rochester would become an independent family. Prior to this, Rochester was just a crew which answered to the Maggadino's Buffalo crime family.

Of course how much of this is true or not remains a question. The Valenti's were Pittsburgh LCN members and I believe JCB told me that Bazzano lobbied Magaddino to allow the formation. I'm in agreement with others here that Rochester was sanctioned/formed at some some in the middle of last century, arguably the last formed American LCN group. Before that point, others have noted that Italian OC seems to have existed before the Valenti/Piccaretto LCN group.

In my own research I've encountered very little. There WAS activity as early as 1911 but no one I can confirm to be made/connected. And interestingly enough, after the counterfeiting trial of 1910 several early Morello members left for there and remained in contact with NYC at least up until the 1920's. So there were members there, but my research has lead me to more or less agree that Rochester didn't have its own homegrown group but rather expatriates from NYC, Buffalo and Pittsburgh. Arguably an open or "shared" city.

Upstate NY Italians had their own world. Besides Buffalo and Niagara Falls, there was Rochester, Jamestown, Olean, (I guess we should count Erie and Youngstown), Elmira, Syracuse, Utica, I think perhaps even Watertown, not to mention Ontario, Canada. Similar to the setup with Cleveland, Pittsburgh, Chicago and Philadelphia, "Buffalo" was a leadership hub with activity in various places. It'd be interesting to do a chart on Buffalo one day.

[B.]

The Bufalino family might fit into this discussion as well. I know there was speculation whether Joe Barbara was a capodecina of the Buffalo family, or a boss of the future Bufalino family. The Bufalino family seems to have come from Montedoro immigrants, though. Either way, the Bufalino family had ties to southwest NYS. Do we know who represented the Bufalino family on the Commission? I have the Luccheses in my head for some reason (maybe the garment industry connection), but Magaddino seems like the "obvious" answer. We hear about the NYC and Chicago families representing a number of families, but Buffalo was another Commission mainstay from its formation until (I believe) Magaddino's death. Like you said, Buffalo was a political hub for the mafia and there were apparently multiple national assembly meetings held there in the 1920s. It would make sense for the Buffalo family to represent the entire region, though mafia politics don't always make sense to outsiders.

[furiofromnaples]

http://mafiamembershipcharts.blogspot.it/

Rochester,NYS.
While Rochester was the scene of violent conflicts between various factions during the early years, there was no "recognised" organization there. Following the "Castellammarese War" [1930-31] the new Commission gave the Buffalo Family control of NYS. Stefano Magaddino, head in Buffalo, inducted local Sicilians and formed a regime in Rochester.
A possible early Capo could have been Pasquale Amico, who died in 1947. At the 1957 Apalachin meeting, the regime was represented by Costenze Valenti. Valenti was jailed for obstruction, and Giacomino Russolessi [AKA Jake Russo] took control for the Buffalo Family.
Valenti, and his brother Frank who was a Capo in the Pittsburgh Family, regained control in 1964 with the disappearence of Russolessi. During the late 1960's Magaddino began losing control over his widespread Family, allowing the Valenti's to declare the Rochester regime an independent Family in 1970.
Although Costenze [Stanley] was officially head, it was Frank Valenti who really ran the Family. He had the support of the Pittsburgh Family, but soon lost the members respect. A revolt in 1972 led to the Valenti's retirement, with Salvatore Rusotti succeeding them.
The new leadership lasted only a few years before being jailed in 1975, which allowed an aborted Valenti comeback. There then followed years of conflict and murder, before more convictions in the 1980's decimated the Family.
The youngest Family in America is now almost extinct, and under the control of the NYC based Bonanno Family.

Do we know who represented the Bufalino family on the Commission?

Russell Bufalino had strong ties with the Genovese family,so I think that them rappresented Bufalinos in the Commission.

[willychichi]

I've read about Rochester online and spoke to several people who delved into it. Rather than regurgitate it wikipedia summed it up:

Splitting from Buffalo[edit]
In 1964, Frank Valenti returned to Rochester with his brother Stan, and Pittsburgh associate Angelo Vaccaro. Frank became an associate in the Pittsburgh crime family in John LaRocca's family. Stan Valenti was married to Antonio Ripepi's daughter, who was a capo in the Pittsburgh family. This time, Frank Valenti was taking over the Rochester family. By the end of the year, Russo went missing and his body has never been found. In 1970, Valenti wiped out the last Russo soldier Billy Lupo. Also Frank Valenti told Buffalo crime family boss Stefano "The Undertaker" Magaddino that Rochester would become an independent family. Prior to this, Rochester was just a crew which answered to the Maggadino's Buffalo crime family.

Of course how much of this is true or not remains a question. The Valenti's were Pittsburgh LCN members and I believe JCB told me that Bazzano lobbied Magaddino to allow the formation. I'm in agreement with others here that Rochester was sanctioned/formed at some some in the middle of last century, arguably the last formed American LCN group. Before that point, others have noted that Italian OC seems to have existed before the Valenti/Piccaretto LCN group.

In my own research I've encountered very little. There WAS activity as early as 1911 but no one I can confirm to be made/connected. And interestingly enough, after the counterfeiting trial of 1910 several early Morello members left for there and remained in contact with NYC at least up until the 1920's. So there were members there, but my research has lead me to more or less agree that Rochester didn't have its own homegrown group but rather expatriates from NYC, Buffalo and Pittsburgh. Arguably an open or "shared" city.

Upstate NY Italians had their own world. Besides Buffalo and Niagara Falls, there was Rochester, Jamestown, Olean, (I guess we should count Erie and Youngstown), Elmira, Syracuse, Utica, I think perhaps even Watertown, not to mention Ontario, Canada. Similar to the setup with Cleveland, Pittsburgh, Chicago and Philadelphia, "Buffalo" was a leadership hub with activity in various places. It'd be interesting to do a chart on Buffalo one day.

Thanks for the post CC. My Mother told me stories about Watertown about my Great Grandfather and Grandfather that my Dad told her, but nothing I have ever been able to confirm. Antiliar looked into if for me once but wasn't able to find much of anything definitive. Would love to know if anyone can confirm any LCN activity in Watertown.

[Angelo Santino]

I've read about Rochester online and spoke to several people who delved into it. Rather than regurgitate it wikipedia summed it up:

Splitting from Buffalo[edit]
In 1964, Frank Valenti returned to Rochester with his brother Stan, and Pittsburgh associate Angelo Vaccaro. Frank became an associate in the Pittsburgh crime family in John LaRocca's family. Stan Valenti was married to Antonio Ripepi's daughter, who was a capo in the Pittsburgh family. This time, Frank Valenti was taking over the Rochester family. By the end of the year, Russo went missing and his body has never been found. In 1970, Valenti wiped out the last Russo soldier Billy Lupo. Also Frank Valenti told Buffalo crime family boss Stefano "The Undertaker" Magaddino that Rochester would become an independent family. Prior to this, Rochester was just a crew which answered to the Maggadino's Buffalo crime family.

Of course how much of this is true or not remains a question. The Valenti's were Pittsburgh LCN members and I believe JCB told me that Bazzano lobbied Magaddino to allow the formation. I'm in agreement with others here that Rochester was sanctioned/formed at some some in the middle of last century, arguably the last formed American LCN group. Before that point, others have noted that Italian OC seems to have existed before the Valenti/Piccaretto LCN group.

In my own research I've encountered very little. There WAS activity as early as 1911 but no one I can confirm to be made/connected. And interestingly enough, after the counterfeiting trial of 1910 several early Morello members left for there and remained in contact with NYC at least up until the 1920's. So there were members there, but my research has lead me to more or less agree that Rochester didn't have its own homegrown group but rather expatriates from NYC, Buffalo and Pittsburgh. Arguably an open or "shared" city.

Upstate NY Italians had their own world. Besides Buffalo and Niagara Falls, there was Rochester, Jamestown, Olean, (I guess we should count Erie and Youngstown), Elmira, Syracuse, Utica, I think perhaps even Watertown, not to mention Ontario, Canada. Similar to the setup with Cleveland, Pittsburgh, Chicago and Philadelphia, "Buffalo" was a leadership hub with activity in various places. It'd be interesting to do a chart on Buffalo one day.

Thanks for the post CC. My Mother told me stories about Watertown about my Great Grandfather and Grandfather that my Dad told her, but nothing I have ever been able to confirm. Antiliar looked into if for me once but wasn't able to find much of anything definitive. Would love to know if anyone can confirm any LCN activity in Watertown.

Sorry. I haven't found anything I can connect, once again it's a case of people leaving NYC and Buffalo during legal uncertainty. Some fell off the radar, others stayed upstate until the 40's, presumably leaving their past behind. And these names I can't directly connect to anything concrete. It's not a crime to leave the city when your friends get arrested and I'm hesitant to jump to conclusions. I'm sure some felt they were in legal jeopardy but without anything further I can't assert anything. And somehow Canada plays into this, it wouldn't surprise me if Italians had their own underground railroad between the US and Canada and used it to sneak in and out given they were willing to make the trek.

What were the Watertown stories? Care to shoot me a PM? I'm not better than Antiliar but I do sometimes get lucky.

[JeremyTheJew]

which fam is rep by Bonanno? Rochester?

that doesn't seem right... is that some wiki bs? or is that correct?

[HairyKnuckles]

In the mid and late1970s the Colombo Family represented Cleveland, Buffalo, Utica, Syracuse, Binghamton and Toronto. Rochestet may have been represented by them as well.

Saw in a file on MF that the Rochestet crew, sometime in the mid 1960s, threatend to leave Magaddino's Family and join the Bonannos. I don't remember the details but if you guys are Interested the file can be found there.

[Stroccos]

In the mid and late1970s the Colombo Family represented Cleveland, Buffalo, Utica, Syracuse, Binghamton and Toronto. Rochestet may have been represented by them as well.

Saw in a file on MF that the Rochestet crew, sometime in the mid 1960s, threatend to leave Magaddino's Family and join the Bonannos. I don't remember the details but if you guys are Interested the file can be found there.

Cleveland was represented by the Genovese , hense why jack white had to go introduce himself as the new boss to tony Salerno

[HairyKnuckles]

In the mid and late1970s the Colombo Family represented Cleveland, Buffalo, Utica, Syracuse, Binghamton and Toronto. Rochestet may have been represented by them as well.

Saw in a file on MF that the Rochestet crew, sometime in the mid 1960s, threatend to leave Magaddino's Family and join the Bonannos. I don't remember the details but if you guys are Interested the file can be found there.

Cleveland was represented by the Genovese , hense why jack white had to go introduce himself as the new boss to tony Salerno

When was that exactly and do you have a link to your source? Around 1977, an informant said Cleveland was represented by the Colombos and Salerno was not a boss at that time.

[Wiseguy]

In the mid and late1970s the Colombo Family represented Cleveland, Buffalo, Utica, Syracuse, Binghamton and Toronto. Rochestet may have been represented by them as well.

Saw in a file on MF that the Rochestet crew, sometime in the mid 1960s, threatend to leave Magaddino's Family and join the Bonannos. I don't remember the details but if you guys are Interested the file can be found there.

Cleveland was represented by the Genovese , hense why jack white had to go introduce himself as the new boss to tony Salerno

When was that exactly and do you have a link to your source? Around 1977, an informant said Cleveland was represented by the Colombos and Salerno was not a boss at that time.

Of course we know that in 1988 Angelo Lonardo testified that Cleveland was represented by the Genovese family. It seems it had been that way for a while and it's hard to imagine the Colombos representing them (or anyone for that matter) only a decade earlier.

[Stroccos]

In the mid and late1970s the Colombo Family represented Cleveland, Buffalo, Utica, Syracuse, Binghamton and Toronto. Rochestet may have been represented by them as well.

Saw in a file on MF that the Rochestet crew, sometime in the mid 1960s, threatend to leave Magaddino's Family and join the Bonannos. I don't remember the details but if you guys are Interested the file can be found there.

Cleveland was represented by the Genovese , hense why jack white had to go introduce himself as the new boss to tony Salerno

When was that exactly and do you have a link to your source? Around 1977, an informant said Cleveland was represented by the Colombos and Salerno was not a boss at that time.

ANgleo lonardo is the source , he advised jack white he had to go to nyc to let the Genovese he was the new boss and again lonardo went to nyc to introduce himself as underboss in 76 and theyalso went to the Genovese to get permission to make ten new members . If salnero was some kind of front boss that’s another matter, but according to lonardo there contact was Tony Salerno who he said was the boss of the family .

[Stroccos]

IS marrota all that’s left in Rochester ?

[JeremyTheJew]

wow, i dont see Colombos representing anyone....

especially buffalo
i was even under the impression Bufalino was called "yhe commision chairman" whatever that meant.
does anyone know about that?

[Angelo Santino]

I never heard of the Colombos representing Families either, although there is some connection with Philly they've always bounced between Gambino and Genovese.

[willychichi]

I've read about Rochester online and spoke to several people who delved into it. Rather than regurgitate it wikipedia summed it up:

Splitting from Buffalo[edit]
In 1964, Frank Valenti returned to Rochester with his brother Stan, and Pittsburgh associate Angelo Vaccaro. Frank became an associate in the Pittsburgh crime family in John LaRocca's family. Stan Valenti was married to Antonio Ripepi's daughter, who was a capo in the Pittsburgh family. This time, Frank Valenti was taking over the Rochester family. By the end of the year, Russo went missing and his body has never been found. In 1970, Valenti wiped out the last Russo soldier Billy Lupo. Also Frank Valenti told Buffalo crime family boss Stefano "The Undertaker" Magaddino that Rochester would become an independent family. Prior to this, Rochester was just a crew which answered to the Maggadino's Buffalo crime family.

Of course how much of this is true or not remains a question. The Valenti's were Pittsburgh LCN members and I believe JCB told me that Bazzano lobbied Magaddino to allow the formation. I'm in agreement with others here that Rochester was sanctioned/formed at some some in the middle of last century, arguably the last formed American LCN group. Before that point, others have noted that Italian OC seems to have existed before the Valenti/Piccaretto LCN group.

In my own research I've encountered very little. There WAS activity as early as 1911 but no one I can confirm to be made/connected. And interestingly enough, after the counterfeiting trial of 1910 several early Morello members left for there and remained in contact with NYC at least up until the 1920's. So there were members there, but my research has lead me to more or less agree that Rochester didn't have its own homegrown group but rather expatriates from NYC, Buffalo and Pittsburgh. Arguably an open or "shared" city.

Upstate NY Italians had their own world. Besides Buffalo and Niagara Falls, there was Rochester, Jamestown, Olean, (I guess we should count Erie and Youngstown), Elmira, Syracuse, Utica, I think perhaps even Watertown, not to mention Ontario, Canada. Similar to the setup with Cleveland, Pittsburgh, Chicago and Philadelphia, "Buffalo" was a leadership hub with activity in various places. It'd be interesting to do a chart on Buffalo one day.

Thanks for the post CC. My Mother told me stories about Watertown about my Great Grandfather and Grandfather that my Dad told her, but nothing I have ever been able to confirm. Antiliar looked into if for me once but wasn't able to find much of anything definitive. Would love to know if anyone can confirm any LCN activity in Watertown.

Sorry. I haven't found anything I can connect, once again it's a case of people leaving NYC and Buffalo during legal uncertainty. Some fell off the radar, others stayed upstate until the 40's, presumably leaving their past behind. And these names I can't directly connect to anything concrete. It's not a crime to leave the city when your friends get arrested and I'm hesitant to jump to conclusions. I'm sure some felt they were in legal jeopardy but without anything further I can't assert anything. And somehow Canada plays into this, it wouldn't surprise me if Italians had their own underground railroad between the US and Canada and used it to sneak in and out given they were willing to make the trek.

What were the Watertown stories? Care to shoot me a PM? I'm not better than Antiliar but I do sometimes get lucky.

I sent you pm CC let me know if you got it not sure if I did it correctly