1983 list (Brooklyn)

[Angelo Santino]

For the record, one could argue that Mangano was with the Mineo group and went with him into the Gambinos. There's no proof for it and I can't argue against it.

The Mangano brothers took over for Don Battista Balsamo, the first Godfather. They took over the Mineo family after Maranzano became the Boss of Bosses.


Pogo

*Sighhhhhh.... If and only if this Battista Balsamo was indeed an amico nos then he was under a capo just as much as he was Under The fucking Clock.

Neither Gentile or Clemente mention him and they would have had this Balsamo bossed some earlier rendition of the Gambinos. The only Battista Balsamo I found for this period lived in Brooklyn and was an informant of Spanish or Portugese descent so probably not the right guy. I've read a post on real deal that Gambino attended William's GF B.Balsamo's funeral in the 1960's which I never followed up on. Bill Balsamo came across to me as just another hack jumping on the Gotti train (like every other mob author in the late 80's and 90's did) and credited his grandfather with forming the entire NY Mafia. It certainly got him some tv interviews. Al Capone has several dozen assholes claiming be long lost relatives so at least Balsamo was keeping it original. So assuming that Don Carlo only went to mob funerals exclusively and that's an indication of his membership there may be an element of truth that this B.Balsamo was a member. Aside from that, we have only the word of the author to go by who essentially wrote the poor man's version of Mafia Dynasty and stuck his gf in the beginning.

Bare in mind (not you Pogo, you're just being a smart ass) that he wrote this in the 1980's before we had internet and thus access to resources besides newspaper microfilm and what previous authors had written on the subject. And so he could get away with slipping through what were the cracks at the time. Today maybe he would have been smart enough to label granpappa Balsamo a captain alongside DiLeonardo in D'Aquila's family. In the end, the truth always comes out and the things he accredited his gf with in the 1980's don't add up at all and were in fact proven to be lies. This entire narrative belongs on the same shelf as Cascio Ferro sending Maranzano to America to take over the mafia for him.

I've never seen any files from MF mentioning him. If there's any record of him being involved and he died in the 60's then there's a 50/50 chance he has an FBI file on him. Does he? If so has anyone ever tried to order it? That would put the matter to bed.

[Angelo Santino]

And I must say, with some of the new posters here (welcome to you all, BTW), I'm surprised I received no blowback for minimizing Luciano's role as "the man who modernized organized crime in America." It's a point of contention, one other researchers (including my bro-heem Anti-liar) fervently disagree with me on. But I look at everything he is credited with- forming the commission, creating some new approach to crime, inventing consigliere, Americanizing the mafia, defining who fell under "old-time bosses" nationally and had them eliminated, forcing "old time" mafia bosses to step down to make way for a younger boss in this new "LCN setup." All of these examples can be disproven.

1) The mafia had a national governing body since at least 1908.
2) Both Clemente in 1911 and Gentile in 1921 and 1930 discuss "commissions" which were part of the "general assembly" (see above.)
3) Ranks previous existed, already covered.
4) After Masseria was murdered, Vincenzo Troia proposed abolishing 'capo dei capi' for a commission but Maranzano really wanted the position.

Now I've heard arguments that while boss Luciano traveled the country so maybe he was instructing the groups about the "new system." Now I wasn't there but I just don't see why this would have to be explained. Regardless of whether there was a C.D.C. or a commission, the power, since 1890 at least, extended from New York, the Families had just as much a higher status to non-NY families then as they did in the 60's. And given that this "commission" would have to be agreed/acknowledged by the national consensus, this whole topic could be cleared up in one "general assembly" meeting.

Luciano is credited with "not wanting" the boss of bosses and instead suggesting a commission. Given that he just killed the B.O.B. I'm not sure how that would play politically had he wanted the position. And had they decided to keep the position I could envision it going to Mangano, being the oldest and heading the most senior mafia family in NYC. We do know that, after 16 years of having one BOB, the American Mafia went through 2 different ones in 3 years, Gentile and Bonanno recall everyone as being tired of fighting of the infighting and changeover and wanting to get back to making money in a stable political climate. I don't think Luciano could have obtained the B.O.B. position if he indeed wanted it.

Also interesting to note that neither Bonanno or Gentile credit Luciano with forming the commission either. But even still, Luciano the Legend remains. Old New Yorkers will tell you the Sicilian Vespers story like it actually happened.

I cannot help but wonder if maybe Luciano's true impact had less to do with what he personally did/created/formed and more what he represented. Valachi made a point to mention that with Genovese as his underboss it was seen as the final old world breakdown. (Why the Mangano-Anastasia setup isn't just as significant isn't explained but Sicilians/Calabrians get along better and have more in common with each other than with Napolitani so maybe it wasn't seen as significant). Aside from Luciano there was Mangano, Profaci, Bonanno and Gagliano who all came from family traditions of Mafia involvement and thus were the aristocrats of that world whereas Luciano may have been more approachable, the Gotti of his day.

And that brings me to my last point: Luciano wasn't a mafia traditionalist, didn't come from a Mafia background or live a mafia lifestyle (house, wife, kids, children, conservative businessman cover) and after being deported to Sicily, unlike most other American made members who were also deported, wasn't an active member and in fact moved to Naples. Given all this, he doesn't strike me as someone set on modernizing the secret organization a la "gonna be a Goza Nozzztra 'til I die" Gotti style who himself lived/adhered to the mafioso lifestyle more so than Luciano (imagine Castellano making Gotti had he lived in a hotel and was a very public frequenter of ladies of ill-repute).

I know people will disagree with this and that's fine. And perhaps I'm overlooking something and maybe am wrong or not viewing all the facts correctly. But it seems to me that Lucky's American Mafia formation exploits have the same staying power as Columbus having discovered the world was round with the same amount of factual accuracy.

[Confederate]

Christie, What was the attitude of the "Old Traditional Mafioso" towards the Business of Prostitution? I know it was ONLY a book, but in the Godfather Novel, Mario Puzo said that true Mafioso looked down upon the Business of Prostitution as UNMANLY and low class because it was the use and abuse of women. Something more suited for the Colored. Even Don Corleone called Tattaglia a "PIMP who could never have outfought Santino".
Again, I KNOW it was a fictional Novel, I'm just wondering if there was any truth to this sentiment among "old fashioned men of honor" or was this attitude just hypocritical bullshit?

[HairyKnuckles]

I've never seen any files from MF mentioning him. If there's any record of him being involved and he died in the 60's then there's a 50/50 chance he has an FBI file on him. Does he? If so has anyone ever tried to order it? That would put the matter to bed.

A Battista Balsamo is listed by the FBI as a deseased member. But I don´t know if this listed member is the Battista Balsamo his nephew wrote about in a book from the 1980s/1990s or is another Battista Balsamo (1905-1969) and who was a business agent of ILA Local 1277. The business agent lived at 215 Bay 40th Street in Brooklyn.

[Angelo Santino]

Christie, What was the attitude of the "Old Traditional Mafioso" towards the Business of Prostitution? I know it was ONLY a book, but in the Godfather Novel, Mario Puzo said that true Mafioso looked down upon the Business of Prostitution as UNMANLY and low class because it was the use and abuse of women. Something more suited for the Colored. Even Don Corleone called Tattaglia a "PIMP who could never have outfought Santino".
Again, I KNOW it was a fictional Novel, I'm just wondering if there was any truth to this sentiment among "old fashioned men of honor" or was this attitude just hypocritical bullshit?

More or less. The 'ideal' is to maintain a professional appearance and drugs and prostitution tarnished that. Keep in mind, that 'thug' and 'pimp' had far different connotations than they do today, back then it was socially akin to being labeled a pedophine or meth addict, you'd never refer to anyone or label yourself that in boastful or noble terms. "But of course back then 'gay' meant happy, mehh" - Al Bundy.

But it should be noted that while the mafia never had an actual pimp as a member, like with everything there's ways around it. You can't deal drugs or make money off of woman, but nothing says you can't loan money to dealers and extort pimps. Seems to be a reoccurring trend that you're considered a member 'in good standing' just as so long as you can separate yourself from whatever rules you're breaking. That's why these rules can't always be viewed from an absolutist point of view.

There's examples of Detroit, Cleveland and other cities who had members connected with prostitution somehow but it was arguably a rare occurrence and almost unheard of in NYC for reasons that may extend beyond the mafia. I believe Matty Ianiello had a string of gay bars and sex clubs in the 1970's, Robert DiBernardo has been immortalized in the 30 films made about Gotti as the gentlemanly Porno King, and more recently, some Gambino captain was allegedly involved/tied to some sex ring involving an underage girl, Daniel Marino I want to say?

[Angelo Santino]

I've never seen any files from MF mentioning him. If there's any record of him being involved and he died in the 60's then there's a 50/50 chance he has an FBI file on him. Does he? If so has anyone ever tried to order it? That would put the matter to bed.

A Battista Balsamo is listed by the FBI as a deseased member. But I don´t know if this listed member is the Battista Balsamo his nephew wrote about in a book from the 1980s/1990s or is another Battista Balsamo (1905-1969) and who was a business agent of ILA Local 1277. The business agent lived at 215 Bay 40th Street in Brooklyn.

Most likely the guy. 1905 you say? Was he boss from the womb with his mother as acting boss? That's the same year Bonanno was born and he didn't become boss until 1931 where he was noted as being the youngest. I could go on another 'rant-page' but instead I'll drop this: Mangano was born 1888, D'Aquila in 1873 to 1878 (he kept listing himself as being younger as he got older, he was in his 40's for 15 years according to his records.) I want to say '79 or 80 for Mineo, 1885 for Gentile.

[Dwalin2014]

But it should be noted that while the mafia never had an actual pimp as a member, like with everything there's ways around it.

But wasn't Dave Petillo a made member (soldier)? I understand Luciano's role in prostitution was likely overblown or he wasn't involved at all (or not directly for sure), but I thought Petillo was and him being in charge of the prostitution "ring" and knowing Luciano helped convicting Luciano for the same things, although he may have been meeting Luciano for other reasons.

[Pogo The Clown]

I remember Bonanno saying that Al Capone gave up his prostitution rackets when he joined Costa Nostra.


Pogo

[HairyKnuckles]

I've never seen any files from MF mentioning him. If there's any record of him being involved and he died in the 60's then there's a 50/50 chance he has an FBI file on him. Does he? If so has anyone ever tried to order it? That would put the matter to bed.

A Battista Balsamo is listed by the FBI as a deseased member. But I don´t know if this listed member is the Battista Balsamo his nephew wrote about in a book from the 1980s/1990s or is another Battista Balsamo (1905-1969) and who was a business agent of ILA Local 1277. The business agent lived at 215 Bay 40th Street in Brooklyn.

Most likely the guy. 1905 you say? Was he boss from the womb with his mother as acting boss? That's the same year Bonanno was born and he didn't become boss until 1931 where he was noted as being the youngest. I could go on another 'rant-page' but instead I'll drop this: Mangano was born 1888, D'Aquila in 1873 to 1878 (he kept listing himself as being younger as he got older, he was in his 40's for 15 years according to his records.) I want to say '79 or 80 for Mineo, 1885 for Gentile.

Lol. Yeah, his writer nephew must have had a wild imagination.

[Pogo The Clown]

He could have had a different guy in mind when he wrote it (assuming he didn't fabricate Battista Balsamo out of thin air) since he included a picture of Balsamo in the book which showed him to be a much older guy then one born in 1905.


Pogo

[gohnjotti]

I believe Matty Ianiello had a string of gay bars and sex clubs in the 1970's, Robert DiBernardo has been immortalized in the 30 films made about Gotti as the gentlemanly Porno King, and more recently, some Gambino captain was allegedly involved/tied to some sex ring involving an underage girl, Daniel Marino I want to say?

Just to add to this, current Bonanno consigliere Fat Tony Rabito controlled a few gay bars in the 1960s. I'm not 100% but I think they were linked to his prescription drug business - quaaludes, Viagra, etc. Have to do some more research on this.

In Donnie Brasco, it talks about Mickey Zaffarano handling porn theatres and national porn film distribution for the Bonanno family, which I guess implies that other families had other stuff going at the same time. He died of a heart attack running through his office hallway when FBI agents came to arrest him after an FBI sting operation called Mi-Porn in Miami.

Also, John Franzese was an investor in the 'legendary' porno film Deep Throat and, whilst awaiting sentencing in 1968, he toured peep shows in Times Square and concluded that independent operators running massage parlors that doubled as sex shops were "prospering." Franzese was one of two Colombos, the other being associate Cosmo Cangiano, to really push the family into pornography. Until his imprisonment, Franzese worked feverishly to take over peep shows and seize a major part of the sex film-vending machine market. By the time he was sent to prison in 1970, he had stakes in seedy motels, cocktail lounges and sexbars. After his imprisonment, his crew continued his operations. Even until 2011, Franzese was extorting jiggle joints. It's been a lifelong thing for him.

Also in 1968, Cosmo Cangiano opened a lab in S.I. to mass produce hardcore porn. At first he ran into "problems" but he straightened it out by bringing in Mickey Zaffarano and giving him a cut. Within a year, Cangiano was reportedly one of the largest-scale porno distributor in the U.S.

Those are a few instances that come to mind. I think the Mafia views pornography as less of a harmful vice than prostitution itself but from what I can gather wiseguys in porn generally branch out into prostitution - due to the connections and potential profits, it becomes inevitable.

[jimmy_beans8]

"Even until 2011, Franzese was extorting jiggle joints. It's been a lifelong thing for him."??????


???

[gohnjotti]

"Even until 2011, Franzese was extorting jiggle joints. It's been a lifelong thing for him."??????


???

Shaking down strip joints. He's always been in that industry.

[Angelo Santino]

He could have had a different guy in mind when he wrote it (assuming he didn't fabricate Battista Balsamo out of thin air) since he included a picture of Balsamo in the book which showed him to be a much older guy then one born in 1905.


Pogo

Pogo is indeed correct. The documented Gambino member Battista Balsama (1905-1968) is NOT the same person Bill Balsami was speaking of.

For starters, Bill Balsamo got his grandfather confused with anothr conman named Giuseppe Battista Balsamo. The correct man is Battista Balsamo, born 1868, Terrasini (the same place where virtually all of Detroit hails from). Can't find his 1895 arrival record but 1900 lists him as arriving in NYC and going to St Louis, MO. In 1905 he lives on Union St in Brooklyn and apparently stayed there until he died in 1940. On one census he states he's lived there since 1902. He started out as a fisherman who became a fish salesman. His son was named Charles or Carl.
(Thanks to Antiliar for this info.)

A few things I observed:
1) He's from Terrasini (which, if he was involved you'd think would have made him closer with the Bonannos but -> )
2) He lived on Union St (which is Gambino county and -> )
3) He's a salesman (like alot of them but)
without any arrest record we only have the author that claim this guy was a member. And the above MO is shared by 3x as many legitimate people, so it's not a mafia MO for per se but just certain traits you keep encountering when looking up members' info .
4) Either it's a mistake on the part of who filled out the records, but if true it appears he has contacts such as Mr. V. Carbony in Ponce, Puerto Rico and Pancho Gonzalez in Vera Cruz, Mexico. I'm not saying he wasn't amico nos because he knows Spanish guys but just would like to note that would be quite rare. (And I am again reminded of that Brooklyn informant named Battista Balsamo who was a Spaniard, I'll have to re-look that up.

Union St is in Cobble Hill is just north of Red Hook, in the 1900's the leader in that area was Joe Trovato who's been in BK for at least a decade, also linked to Lupo and I believe one of the Manganos married his daughter later but I could be mistaken. After Trovato I believe Joe Fanaro is a possible leader in that area before being killed in 1913 (along with Fontana up in Harlem). Both Trovato and Fanaro were Gambinos.

I'll keep this Balsamo under "maybe" for being a member, but I've still seen nothing from my end to indicate that.

UPDATE: Battista Balsamo b. 1868 and the documented Gambino member Battista Balsamo b.1905 are not father and son but both lived on Union St. The 1905 one's father is Ignazio and I have yet to ascertain if they came from Terrasini as well. Which if the case means they probably have relatives in Detroit and might be worth bringing Jimmy Buccellato into this discussion. What I recall of Detroit 1910 is you had alot of people traveling the country before settling in Detroit, they certainly had ties to Chicago, St Louis, Cleveland and NY very early on. But he's better versed in that region than myself and perhaps has looked into the townmen of Terrasini like did with our town.

UPDATE 2: (Again, my apologies for dragging this thread fucking light years away from 1983 New York), looking into my notes, outside of Detroit the Terrasini were wanderers, you see a few here and there in different cities but the hub is Detroit but... err *maybe origins in St. Louis which connects with Balestrate and ergo (!) the Bommarito connection! The Bommarito's a large family, I'm even related to them and went to a (lowercase F) family reunion in Saginaw, MI in 2002 which included relatives without the surname. 300 or so, some from St Louis. This area between C.D.G. and Palermo includes alot of Mafia cities like Belestrate, Partinico, Alcamo, Carini and these factions- like the Cast or Corleonese on a smaller level- maintained some national cohesion, enough for murders to be 'felt' in other cities. It really needs more looking into. We're going into subsets of the larger three hubs of the Castellammare Gulf and the interior and the urban coasts of Palermo/Sciacca. Like the Ribera network, they apparently spanned multiple cities and states.

[Antiliar]

The older Battista Balsamo was charged with third degree assault in 1902, but I could find any details. In 1913 he was charged with carrying a dangerous weapon, but again no details.

There was another Battista Balsamo who was charged with other Gambinos for racketeering in the ILA (Longshoremen's Association) in 1967. Known as Tito Balsamo, he was arrested for the murder of Joseph Mannino in 1931 - just after Maranzano was killed. His dates are Sept 29, 1902 to April 16, 1969. He was the son of Ignazio and Josephine Balsamo. Ignazio, I believe, was the first Battista's older brother.

Interestingly, Salvatore Balsamo -- another relative -- was with Thomas DiBella in a 1923 car accident.