Confederate wrote: ↑Tue Sep 19, 2017 3:15 am
From what I read from other sources, it seems Christie had the right idea that the Families were usually around 30 members give or take and they were all related by blood or marriage. That makes the Sicilian Mafia a lot different than the American Cosa Nostra.
the sicilian mafia families are not formed by people all related like the ndrangheta clans, there are several members of the same blood family who are members but often they are members of different families... this is a rule inside sicilian mafia that limits the amount of related people inside a single family, not more than 3 (3 brothers or 1 father and 2 sons)
the sicilians focus more on territories than names, although they often are the same, but the names are not so important like in the ndrangheta for example
in new york there are large families because the kind of territory forced them to do it, in sicily is different because there are several little towns or neighborhoods and every of them has a mafika family, being the territory small 30 made members often are enough to control it
scagghiuni wrote: ↑Wed Sep 20, 2017 7:19 am
this is a rule inside sicilian mafia that limits the amount of related people inside a single family, not more than 3 (3 brothers or 1 father and 2 sons)
That's right, I remember some articles about the Ribisi brothers (Palma di Montechiaro, Agrigento province), it said usually it's no more than 2 brothers, but in the Ribisi case they allowed 3 (Rosario, Gioacchino, Ignazio), the other 4 couldn't be made because of this rule.
Ha ricordato che Pietro Ribisi non aveva potuto assumere la qualita’ di uomo d’onore per la regola vigente in “Cosa Nostra” per cui non potevano far parte dell’organizzazione più di due fratelli, tant’è che la presenza di Rosario, Ignazio e Gioacchino costituiva già una deroga. Ma Pietro Ribisi aveva peraltro avuto un ruolo operativo nelle attivita’ criminose della famiglia agrigentina e con Montagna Michele, con Coco Brancato, costituiva il braccio armato di Giuseppe Di Caro.
translation
He remembered that Pietro Ribisi couldn't be formally made because of the rule in the Cosa Nostra, according to which more than two brothers couldn't be part of the same organization, so the presence of Rosario, Ignazio and Gioacchino was already an exception. But Pietro Ribisi had an active role in the criminal activities of the family and, with Michele Montagna, and Coco Brancato, was part of Giuseppe Di Caro's enforcement group (or "strong arm", not sure about the translation).
Confederate wrote: ↑Tue Sep 19, 2017 3:15 am
From what I read from other sources, it seems Christie had the right idea that the Families were usually around 30 members give or take and they were all related by blood or marriage. That makes the Sicilian Mafia a lot different than the American Cosa Nostra.
the sicilian mafia families are not formed by people all related like the ndrangheta clans, there are several members of the same blood family who are members but often they are members of different families... this is a rule inside sicilian mafia that limits the amount of related people inside a single family, not more than 3 (3 brothers or 1 father and 2 sons)
the sicilians focus more on territories than names, although they often are the same, but the names are not so important like in the ndrangheta for example
in new york there are large families because the kind of territory forced them to do it, in sicily is different because there are several little towns or neighborhoods and every of them has a mafika family, being the territory small 30 made members often are enough to control it
Thank You very much for making that more clear to me.
Chris Christie wrote: ↑Sat Sep 16, 2017 10:55 pm
1) In the 1920's in Villabate a Sicilian from another town- I disremember the name- in Palermo that had it's own Mafia Family was made by the Villabate boss and his affiliation placed into another Family in another City. This is very odd that A) This individual was made by one Family boss and "assigned" to another Family and B) despite this Sicilian's hometown having it's own Family, he was instead placed into another city's Family.
I'd very much like to hear B's perspective on this matter. The above scenario just seems so odd to me and seemingly violates Mafia norms. Imagine a scenario where the Colombo boss encountered a Boston native in 1925, straightened him out and then assigned him to the Scranton Family? One can envision multiple instances where doing this would lead to problems later on. I can only surmise that this occurred after the first World War and maybe the Mafia was going through a "rebuild" and this was a one off occurrence. I can't find any other examples such as this.
The closest thing in the US I can think of are examples like Alphonse Persico and Nicky Bianco who were made in other cities and then transferred to the Colombos, but those were for very specific reasons. Maybe the Villabate example is a slightly more complicated version of the same thing, but hard to say without more context.
By the way, the other guy from Villabate who was made later on by another family was considered "illegal" in the same sense that making an associate of another family is "illegal" in the US. I guess it was smoothed out, though. Even though most mafia families in the US are based around a specific city/region, the US has always had a lot of exceptions as far as affiliation goes (i.e. NY families with members in New England, Trenton, Canada, Arizona, etc.). It's not always a case of a guy being made in NY and relocating, either, but guys have been recruited from those distant areas as well. I suppose as long as a guy isn't "on record" with anyone else and they clear his name with the local family (assuming one exists), it's considered okay.
Chris Christie wrote: ↑Sat Sep 16, 2017 10:55 pm
1) In the 1920's in Villabate a Sicilian from another town- I disremember the name- in Palermo that had it's own Mafia Family was made by the Villabate boss and his affiliation placed into another Family in another City. This is very odd that A) This individual was made by one Family boss and "assigned" to another Family and B) despite this Sicilian's hometown having it's own Family, he was instead placed into another city's Family.
I'd very much like to hear B's perspective on this matter. The above scenario just seems so odd to me and seemingly violates Mafia norms. Imagine a scenario where the Colombo boss encountered a Boston native in 1925, straightened him out and then assigned him to the Scranton Family? One can envision multiple instances where doing this would lead to problems later on. I can only surmise that this occurred after the first World War and maybe the Mafia was going through a "rebuild" and this was a one off occurrence. I can't find any other examples such as this.
The closest thing in the US I can think of are examples like Alphonse Persico and Nicky Bianco who were made in other cities and then transferred to the Colombos, but those were for very specific reasons. Maybe the Villabate example is a slightly more complicated version of the same thing, but hard to say without more context.
By the way, the other guy from Villabate who was made later on by another family was considered "illegal" in the same sense that making an associate of another family is "illegal" in the US. I guess it was smoothed out, though. Even though most mafia families in the US are based around a specific city/region, the US has always had a lot of exceptions as far as affiliation goes (i.e. NY families with members in New England, Trenton, Canada, Arizona, etc.). It's not always a case of a guy being made in NY and relocating, either, but guys have been recruited from those distant areas as well. I suppose as long as a guy isn't "on record" with anyone else and they clear his name with the local family (assuming one exists), it's considered okay.
One other thing somewhat similar would be during the 1900's-1920's when members arrived to NYC and joined one of the Five Families and assigned to a decina/faction usually composed if possible with his compaesani. Without going into details there is evidence of this occurring but even still this was limited to within a single Family.
And despite all the bosses who were former Schiro Family members before heading off to SF, Buffalo, Boston, Philadelphia, Detroit, there is nothing to indicate that Schiro "sent" them there. Take Philadelphia for instance, Sabella is the first known boss but I cannot help but wonder if his position was the result of some sort of merger between Norristown, Philly proper and South Jersey, all of whom were linked by Christian Street. It's been revealed in FBI files that Sabella was backed by D'Aquila's Traina so we have two of the four NYC Families at the time involved/interested in that region's affairs. Given where Philly's earliest members came from I'm surprised they didn't stick a D'Aquila family member in there instead, but there's traces of an early Castellammaresi faction in Philly who were also connected to Williamsburgh, much of that still remains unknown. It actually wouldn't surprise me if South Jersey and Norristown were with the D'Aquila's or at least strongly connected to them very early on before officially becoming "Philadelphia."
