Joel Cacace-Carini murders questions

[Adam]

So I'm a little confused by the whole Carini brothers murders in 1987. So I get that they and Frank Smith killed the wrong Aronwald in 1987. And I get Cacace and others being upset by that. So I understand why the Carini brothers were killed a few months later. I'm not completely clear on who ordered the Carini brothers murders and why Frank Smith got a pass. But was it Cacace/Colombo family who ordered it or did it come from other families? There seems to be some confusion on that. And were the Carini murders actually done by Carmine Variale and Frank Santora? Now it's my understanding that Frank Smith thought it was and that he killed them? And he's just allowed to kill a Lucchese and Bonanno guy? It's all pretty weird. Do we have a full explanation on that?

Incidentally, I believe Smith admitted to being involved in five murders with Cacace but does anyone have all of those names? And seriously, how many murders is Cacace linked to? There's also the 1997 Dols murder and the murder of former cop Carlo Antonino in 1987. And court documents reference that Cacace killed two guys who tried to kidnap him? Not sure who and when that was. That's a lot of dead people around one Colombo guy. Two of them cops.

Adam

[AlexfromSouth]

Nice tread, It will be Interesting to say how will it play out. Also would love if someone could give us some early history of Joel Cacace. Very Intetesting guy. Was he from Sheepshead bay?

[Adam]

Nice tread, It will be Interesting to say how will it play out. Also would love if someone could give us some early history of Joel Cacace. Very Intetesting guy. Was he from Sheepshead bay?

And he's set to get out in less than three years. Which amazes me. He plead guilty to murder and murder conspiracy in 2004.

[furiofromnaples]

Nice tread, It will be Interesting to say how will it play out. Also would love if someone could give us some early history of Joel Cacace. Very Intetesting guy. Was he from Sheepshead bay?

http://breakshotblog.blogspot.it/2013/1 ... y.html?m=1

Yes,he was from Sheepshead and was fluorish and changed after in 1976 3 robbers enrered his shop.
For the while Aronwal thing,some reasons on why the other families doesn't kill even smith,cacace e dont ordered persico to step down is that after the commission trial they was under siege by FBI and don't want more troubles.
Santora was an associate while Varriale a made man again,for sure there was meeting between colombo and lucchese and I think that Persico consider Cacace a real trusted man because done what he ordered to done without say nothing and don't flipped for fear to be killed by luccheses.
In my opinion Persico broke the rule of dont kill a judge and dont kill a made man without family permission but the times was changing and for sure the other families found a way to punish colombos and persico paied much $$$ to save Cacace.

[Adam]

Oh and apparently Smith admitted to the murders of a Joseph Freglette and a Gino Longobardi. Not sure when or if they were Colombo murders. Anyone know?

[DonnieB]

From sheepshead Bay Gravesend area..had a club on Avenue u and E.15th. Owned a florist shop for awhile.

[Extortion]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gfYXZuZ7qB4 is it joel cacace at 4:30? he was a scarpa rival and the looks to have long hair unless its a wig. He was orena faction during that time too.

[gohnjotti]

The 1976 killings weren't mob-related. He was held up at gunpoint by three thugs and forced into a car. He put up a fight though and managed to pry the gun out of one of the assailant's hands and kill him while the other two fled. He was shot but still managed to drive himself to a police station with the dead guy in the car.

[gohnjotti]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gfYXZuZ7qB4 is it joel cacace at 4:30? he was a scarpa rival and the looks to have long hair unless its a wig. He was orena faction during that time too.

Didn't he switch sides and join the Persico faction after his assassination attempt?

[furiofromnaples]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gfYXZuZ7qB4 is it joel cacace at 4:30? he was a scarpa rival and the looks to have long hair unless its a wig. He was orena faction during that time too.

Didn't he switch sides and join the Persico faction after his assassination attempt?

Wasn't the first that changed side when was clare that Persico men would win the war.

[Adam]

The 1976 killings weren't mob-related. He was held up at gunpoint by three thugs and forced into a car. He put up a fight though and managed to pry the gun out of one of the assailant's hands and kill him while the other two fled. He was shot but still managed to drive himself to a police station with the dead guy in the car.

It's interesting that you say that. I'll just note that in US v Cacace the government says that:

"The Government also alleges Defendant's involvement in the following violent incidents: (1) Defendant killed two organized crime associates who attempted to kidnap him;"

I don't know anything about it. But if it wasn't mob related I'm surprised they would add that in.

But to try and get some more information, does anyone know anything about the Joseph Freglette and Gino Longobardi murders that Smith admitted to? I've never come across them before.

Adam R.

[B.]

Greg Scarpa Jr. supposedly killed an Alfred Longobardi, a limo driver. Given the Colombo connection, Longobardi could be a relative of Gino.

[gohnjotti]

The 1976 killings weren't mob-related. He was held up at gunpoint by three thugs and forced into a car. He put up a fight though and managed to pry the gun out of one of the assailant's hands and kill him while the other two fled. He was shot but still managed to drive himself to a police station with the dead guy in the car.

It's interesting that you say that. I'll just note that in US v Cacace the government says that:

"The Government also alleges Defendant's involvement in the following violent incidents: (1) Defendant killed two organized crime associates who attempted to kidnap him;"

I don't know anything about it. But if it wasn't mob related I'm surprised they would add that in.

But to try and get some more information, does anyone know anything about the Joseph Freglette and Gino Longobardi murders that Smith admitted to? I've never come across them before.

Adam R.

Now that I read over it again, they could very well be mob-related. I shouldn't jump to conclusions. The NY Times article from the time said they were holdup men, and that Cacace was a Brooklyn florist. It is possible the NY Times had no knowledge of his organized-crime connection since the police did not provide any further details at the time.