Lupara wrote: ↑Mon Aug 07, 2017 4:52 am
What did New York do what made them savages in Accardo's eyes? I cannot think of more gruesome murders that happened in New York than in Chicago. I think the Outfit was responsible for more murders than one of the Five Families. More loose cannons in Chicago as well. Was he getting senile when he made that response?
Because of the high profile murders Mangano, Anastasia, Colombo, Eboli, Banana wars etc. which most occurred during the time when the mob was on its highest level. And what Snakes already pointed out is true
I don't see why a sanctioned hit on a boss would make them savages. Capone killed other bosses as well. Not for nothing Puzo described Chicago as mad dogs and I agree. But it's just a matter of opinion I guess.
Lupara wrote: ↑Mon Aug 07, 2017 4:52 am
What did New York do what made them savages in Accardo's eyes? I cannot think of more gruesome murders that happened in New York than in Chicago. I think the Outfit was responsible for more murders than one of the Five Families. More loose cannons in Chicago as well. Was he getting senile when he made that response?
Because of the high profile murders Mangano, Anastasia, Colombo, Eboli, Banana wars etc. which most occurred during the time when the mob was on its highest level. And what Snakes already pointed out is true
I don't see why a sanctioned hit on a boss would make them savages. Capone killed other bosses as well. Not for nothing Puzo described Chicago as mad dogs and I agree. But it's just a matter of opinion I guess.
Accardo approved hit on Giancana anyways.
Giancana wasnt the chief executive since 1966 and became one of their main international representatives but in 1973/74 he completely lost all of his connections and if he didnt fuck things up, he would've become elder statestman like Accardo and Ricca. So we cannot count Giancanas hit as a murder of a boss since there were other quite powerful chief executives after his reign such as Teets Battaglia
Do not be deceived, neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God - Corinthians 6:9-10
Also, the answers that Villain and I gave shouldn't be seen as authoritative. Lupara asked why we thought Accordo said what he said and we provided our best educated answers. Who actually knows what he really said; it was 50 or 60 years ago and everyone that would know what he meant is dead. The fact remains that all families were animals and we're critical of how others ran their own respective territories. It's the nature of the beast.
Joe Fosco loved Giancana.They were saying on ANP that Giancana was the top boss when he was whacked.That he had succeeded Ricca in 1957. That Aiuppa and Cerone got Accardo to go along with them. Didn't Giancana brother also state Sam was still in charge when killed? They said he was running the Outfit from out of the country. I am open minded but I think that is some revisionist history. What do you guys think of Joe Fosco view of the Outfit.
Frank wrote: ↑Tue Aug 08, 2017 10:03 am
Joe Fosco loved Giancana.They were saying on ANP that Giancana was the top boss when he was whacked.That he had succeeded Ricca in 1957. That Aiuppa and Cerone got Accardo to go along with them. Didn't Giancana brother also state Sam was still in charge when killed? They said he was running the Outfit from out of the country. I am open minded but I think that is some revisionist history. What do you guys think of Joe Fosco view of the Outfit.
Giancana certainly still had a decent amount of loyalists on the street when we went away, through to the time he came back. I don't believe he was running things, but I'm sure it could have seemed that way to many.
I don't think he was either. I don't believe he succeeded Ricca either. I believe in the conventional wisdom that he was under Ricca and Accardo when he was basically front boss and after they knocked him down as boss. I only give it a little bit of a possibility because Fosco's father was a made man.
Again, front boss isn't a good descriptor of what Giancana was. Ricca and Accardo were known to be higher in rank to Giancana by the feds and the media yet Giancana was still boss. That's the problem with labels and especially the Outfit and labels. Each guy had a job and labels were irrelevant to it, for the most part.
Snakes is right and i also have to admit that from 1959 until 1961 Giancana was possibly the one and only boss in Chicago, since Ricca was in jail and Accardo was constantly in court. Similar situation occurred with Gus Alex who in 1974 was the only guy at the top since Aiuppa was in hospital and Accardo was in Palm Springs
Do not be deceived, neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God - Corinthians 6:9-10
Does anyone know if Joey the Clown was related to is it Tony Lombardo the Mafia leader that was whacked in 1928. And yes that is a good point about Giancana having more power in those years of Accardo tax problems and Ricca in prison. I'm sure they didn't kill Giancana in 1966 because he was a good earner for them back in the day. Not sure about Sam and Accardo relationship. Maybe they were on better terms than people think at that time. Didn't Nick Calebrese testify that Accardo ordered the hit on Sam because he was not paying tribute on International Casino's. Ending speculation that it was Trafficante or the CIA.
Frank wrote: ↑Wed Aug 09, 2017 11:19 am
Does anyone know if Joey the Clown was related to is it Tony Lombardo the Mafia leader that was whacked in 1928.
I believe Joe the Clown changed his name at some point from Lombardi to Lombardo. Because of that I don't think he was related to Tony Lombardo, who was head of Unione Siciliano.
I don't think Accardo had problems with Giancana until he returned to Chicago in the 1970s. Accardo originally picked Giancana to be his underboss, so they must have had a good relationship. Accardo likely chose Sam to succeed him when he retired, and he schooled him when he was a new boss.
BTW, Tony Lombardo may have been the head of the Chicago chapter of the Italo-American National Union (it changed its name from Unione Siciliana in 1925), but I couldn't verify that. The newspapers usually got everything they knew about the organization wrong, at least from the 1920s forward.
Yes I heard that Calebrese testified that it was Accardo who ordered hit because of tribute money. But again I'm just trying to get the facts straight.
Frank wrote: ↑Wed Aug 09, 2017 4:07 pm
Yes I heard that Calebrese testified that it was Accardo who ordered hit because of tribute money. But again I'm just trying to get the facts straight.
Giancana was killed by his own people although there are some strange facts such as the incomplete police surveilance and such. For example they have Blasi going in and out of the place and later they have nothing, even though they had the house surrounded
Do not be deceived, neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God - Corinthians 6:9-10
