The Outfit had less official rats because...?

[Pete]

I believe pre-1960's, Chicago made guys at a younger age but as time progressed and they became more "selective," mid-forties seemed to be about the norm.

Yeah supposedly spilotro was made in his mid 20's but who knows if that's the case. Obviously guys like accardo and giancana were made pretty young. Also we are still not sure what being made entailed at that point in time

[Wiseguy]

Even in New York most newly made guys don't seem to be in their 20s and 30s. More like 40s or older.

I disagree on that. Just off the top of my head I can name many many guys in ny made in their 20's and 30's. 20's certainly not a ton but most of the guys I can think of from ny were made in their 30's. Out of the two ceremonies we know of for the outfit the youngest guy was marcello and he was 40. Most of the other guys were mid 40's to late 40's

Just off the top of your head? I'm not sure how exhaustive a list that would be but, however many you could name, I suspect they would still be in the minority compared to those getting made in their 40s or older.

[Pete]

Even in New York most newly made guys don't seem to be in their 20s and 30s. More like 40s or older.

I disagree on that. Just off the top of my head I can name many many guys in ny made in their 20's and 30's. 20's certainly not a ton but most of the guys I can think of from ny were made in their 30's. Out of the two ceremonies we know of for the outfit the youngest guy was marcello and he was 40. Most of the other guys were mid 40's to late 40's

Just off the top of your head? I'm not sure how exhaustive a list that would be but, however many you could name, I suspect they would still be in the minority compared to those getting made in their 40s or older.

Could you provide where your getting this information? See when I mentioned Chicago I put out the facts as to why that's the case based on the info we know about who was made at what ceremony. I also stated the majority of people in ny that I have info about, based on reading books, indictments etc, were made before their 40's. I know you have a lot of info on when people were made so I'm trying to figure out what I'm missing here

[Lupara]

Even in New York most newly made guys don't seem to be in their 20s and 30s. More like 40s or older.

I disagree on that. Just off the top of my head I can name many many guys in ny made in their 20's and 30's. 20's certainly not a ton but most of the guys I can think of from ny were made in their 30's. Out of the two ceremonies we know of for the outfit the youngest guy was marcello and he was 40. Most of the other guys were mid 40's to late 40's

In the old days guys made in their 20s and 30s was not uncommon. Today it is. I have only basic knowledge of the Outfit but I think Tony Spilotro was also made in his 30s.

I think this has all to do with the fact that guys mature a lot slower than a century ago. Back then guys were men at age 20, today guys are still boys (myself included) at age 30.

[Wiseguy]

Even in New York most newly made guys don't seem to be in their 20s and 30s. More like 40s or older.

I disagree on that. Just off the top of my head I can name many many guys in ny made in their 20's and 30's. 20's certainly not a ton but most of the guys I can think of from ny were made in their 30's. Out of the two ceremonies we know of for the outfit the youngest guy was marcello and he was 40. Most of the other guys were mid 40's to late 40's

Just off the top of your head? I'm not sure how exhaustive a list that would be but, however many you could name, I suspect they would still be in the minority compared to those getting made in their 40s or older.

Could you provide where your getting this information? See when I mentioned Chicago I put out the facts as to why that's the case based on the info we know about who was made at what ceremony. I also stated the majority of people in ny that I have info about, based on reading books, indictments etc, were made before their 40's. I know you have a lot of info on when people were made so I'm trying to figure out what I'm missing here

Well, for example, look at this list Pogo posted a while back of NY ceremonies over the years. Now in the past I would have had time to go through the names and figure out how old they were when they were made but no so much nowadays. But if you want, Pete, go through them. Like I said, I suspect those made in their 20s and 30s are more the exception than the rule.

viewtopic.php?f=29&t=144&hilit=Thomas+Huck+Carnonaro

[Nicholas]

Being an informant is all about what sort of person you are , be all and end all nothing more , if you believe 100% in the oath you took them you ain't gonna flip , it doesn't matter two shits where your from

The person you have to worry about flipping is the person with the most to lose. The guy with nothing to lose is the guy you can most trust. The guy with money, a beautiful wife, kids and a beautiful home are the ones most likely to sing.

You mean like Anthony Nicodemo?

[Nicholas]

I think this has all to do with the fact that guys mature a lot slower than a century ago. Back then guys were men at age 20, today guys are still boys (myself included) at age 30.

You're right entirely, though I think a lot of it has to do with the cushioned upbringing many of us have had, along with the rise in institutionalized education, i.e. we've spent too much time in classrooms, not factory floors or the farm.

[Slick]

Columbo:
Michael "Mikey" Souza 2004- 36
Craig Marino-2004-34( but was named a member as far back as 2000-30 yrs old)
Sebastiano “Sebby” Saracino-2004- 39
Dino "Little Dino" Saracino-2004- 32
Joseph “Joey Caves” Compatiello-2004- 33
Anthony Strapoli-2000- 37
Andre D’Apice-2000- 26
Dino "Big Dino" Calabro-2000- 33
Victor Orena Jr-1989- 33
Vincent “Chickie” DeMartino-1989- 33
Joseph "Joe Campy" Campanella-1989- 30
Michael Sessa-1988- 28
Robert D’Onofrio-1988- 31
John Orena-1987- 32
Carmine Sessa-1987- 36
Theodore "Teddy" Persico Jr-1987- 23
Thomas "Tommy Shots" Gioeli-1987- 35
Joseph "JoJo" Russo-1985- 30
Joseph Scopo-1981- 35

That's 19 out of 38 members made back to 1981 on that chart Ivy linked. There may have been a few more, as I was unable to find info on some of those named.

[Slick]

Bonnano:
Frank “Big Frank” Pastore-2008- 38
Anthony "Little Anthony" Pepitone-2004- 32
Vincent Basciano Jr.-2004- 22
Michael Cassese-2004- 37
Salvatore “Sal the Ironworker” Montagna-2004- 33
Giacomo “Jack” Bonventre-2003- 35
Dominick Cicale-2003- 35
Anthony “Ace” Aiello-2003- 26
Salvatore Puccio-2001- 30
Gino Galestro-2001- 33
Anthony Navarra-2001- 28
Philip Navarra-1998- 27
Joseph Lino-1996- 37
Daniel “Dirty Danny/DeDe” Mongelli-1996- 29
Paul Cantarella-1996- 25
Nicholas “P.J” Pisciotti-1995- 28
Anthony "Tony Black" Furino- 1995- 39
Jerome “Jerry” Asaro-1990- 32
Robert “Little Robert” Lino-1990- 23
Vincent “Vinny Gorgeous” Basciano-1990- 30
Stephen “Stevie Blue” LoCurto-1988- 27
John “Porky” Zancocchio-1988- 30
Richard “Big Ritchie” Riccardi-1986- 36
Thomas “Tommy Karate” Pitera-1986- 31
Salvatore “Sal” Vitale- 1984- 37
Nicholas “Nicky Mouth” Santora-1981- 39
Armando “Mondo” Rea-1981- 29

That's 27 out of 53 back to 1981 on that same link.

[Wiseguy]

Certainly more than I would have thought. Guys in their 30's anyway.

[Pete]

Certainly more than I would have thought. Guys in their 30's anyway.

Closest we're gonna get to wiseguy admitting he was wrong. I'll take it lol

[Pete]

Bonnano:
Frank “Big Frank” Pastore-2008- 38
Anthony "Little Anthony" Pepitone-2004- 32
Vincent Basciano Jr.-2004- 22
Michael Cassese-2004- 37
Salvatore “Sal the Ironworker” Montagna-2004- 33
Giacomo “Jack” Bonventre-2003- 35
Dominick Cicale-2003- 35
Anthony “Ace” Aiello-2003- 26
Salvatore Puccio-2001- 30
Gino Galestro-2001- 33
Anthony Navarra-2001- 28
Philip Navarra-1998- 27
Joseph Lino-1996- 37
Daniel “Dirty Danny/DeDe” Mongelli-1996- 29
Paul Cantarella-1996- 25
Nicholas “P.J” Pisciotti-1995- 28
Anthony "Tony Black" Furino- 1995- 39
Jerome “Jerry” Asaro-1990- 32
Robert “Little Robert” Lino-1990- 23
Vincent “Vinny Gorgeous” Basciano-1990- 30
Stephen “Stevie Blue” LoCurto-1988- 27
John “Porky” Zancocchio-1988- 30
Richard “Big Ritchie” Riccardi-1986- 36
Thomas “Tommy Karate” Pitera-1986- 31
Salvatore “Sal” Vitale- 1984- 37
Nicholas “Nicky Mouth” Santora-1981- 39
Armando “Mondo” Rea-1981- 29

That's 27 out of 53 back to 1981 on that same link.

Thanks for doing the leg work slick

[Wiseguy]

Certainly more than I would have thought. Guys in their 30's anyway.

Closest we're gonna get to wiseguy admitting he was wrong. I'll take it lol

If a complete list (obviously not available) were to mirror those already listed, then I stand corrected.

[Pogo The Clown]

There are some errors in my previous list. Here is the updated one for the Colombo ceremonies from 2000-2011 from JDs info.


February 2000
Dino Calabro (33y)
Andre D'Apice (26y)
Luca DiMatteo (55y)
Anthony Stropoli (36y)


c. Mid-2000
Ralph DeLeo (57y)


c. Early 2004
Joseph 'Joe Caves' Competiello (32y)
Craig Marino (33y)
Dino Saracino (30y)
Sebastiano 'Sebby' Saracino (36y)


c. 2005
'Frankie BF' LNU [Not Guerra]
Michael Souza (37y)


c. 2005/2006
Michael 'Mike the Electrician' Catapano (40y)
Vincent 'Downtown Vinny' Manzo (67y)
Michael Uvino (39y)


March 16, 2008
Reynold Maragni (56y)


February 1, 2009
Daniel Capaldo (44y)
Emanuele 'Manny' Favuzza (50y)
FNU 'Sally from Coney Island' LNU
John Maggio (47y)
Anthony Russo (48y)
Joseph Savarese (46y)


January 12, 2011
Illario “Fat Larry” Sessa (45y)


That is 9 under 40, 11 over and 2 unknown. Working out the averge (not counting the unkowns) it is 43.


Keep in mind the Colombos, Bonannos and at times the Luccheses tend to make younger members while the Genovese and Gambinos tend to skew older.


Pogo

[Sam22]

A lot of guys on this Columbo list flipped. I counted 7. Did Catapano rat or just whine and cry at sentencing ?