Pittsburgh Family Admin Lineage... ahem JCB

[JCB1977]

when did Philidelphia get a seat?

Philly and Detroit got theirs in the early 60s and lost them in the mid 70s along with Buffalo and from the looks of it Chicago.


Pogo

It was in the late 1950s. The FBI found out about it when they bugged the Outfit and overheard Accardo and Giancana discussing Ida and Zerilli. I also think that Gentile could be correct that Cleveland had a seat, but lost it after only a couple of years. Since it was brief, Bonanno may have forgotten about it and Valachi might not have known about it.

FBI Files from the 50's and 60's claim John Scalish had a seat. It's plausible but I still believe the true power in Cleveland was Tony Milano.

[Antiliar]

I was looking over the information and it looks like it was a mistake an informant made to put Scalish on the Commission. All the info before and after the one informant don't have Scalish on it.
http://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html ... 4&tab=page

[JCB1977]

I was looking over the information and it looks like it was a mistake an informant made to put Scalish on the Commission. All the info before and after the one informant don't have Scalish on it.
http://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html ... 4&tab=page

Which makes sense...however, Cleveland was a national powerhouse syndicate in the early days, the Porrello's, Lonardo's, Milano's, Charles Masseria and the Jewish boys held a lot of weight throughout the national picture.

[Antiliar]

Which is a good reason to think Milano was on the Commission in its early years.

[JCB1977]

Which is a good reason to think Milano was on the Commission in its early years.

His brother Frank very well could have been on the early commission if my memory serves me correct.

[Angelo Santino]

It was Nick Gentile who said the original Commission consisted of NY, Chicago and Cleveland. He claimed to have been Tony Milano's consig until the commission was formed, then he transferred to Pittsburgh and had nothing good to say about Bazzano or Amato.

In regards to the Banana Society being a separate entity, I just don't buy it. Both groups share lineage from Termini Imeresi and the Limas would get out of prison and move to SF and become involved with the LCN there. Given that this group was in Marion it was most likely a crew and perhaps an early example of Pittsburgh having operations in Ohio very early on.

[JCB1977]

It was Nick Gentile who said the original Commission consisted of NY, Chicago and Cleveland. He claimed to have been Tony Milano's consig until the commission was formed, then he transferred to Pittsburgh and had nothing good to say about Bazzano or Amato.

In regards to the Banana Society being a separate entity, I just don't buy it. Both groups share lineage from Termini Imeresi and the Limas would get out of prison and move to SF and become involved with the LCN there. Given that this group was in Marion it was most likely a crew and perhaps an early example of Pittsburgh having operations in Ohio very early on.

That's very possible and a well thought out conclusion to the limited resources. My thinking tends to take off from the 50's and there were several groups operating in Youngstown separately, the Sicilians, Calabrians and Neapolitans. That's why I thought it could also be an early example of a separate faction operating yet with no interference. But I could certainly see your point as well.

[JCB1977]

It was Nick Gentile who said the original Commission consisted of NY, Chicago and Cleveland. He claimed to have been Tony Milano's consig until the commission was formed, then he transferred to Pittsburgh and had nothing good to say about Bazzano or Amato.

In regards to the Banana Society being a separate entity, I just don't buy it. Both groups share lineage from Termini Imeresi and the Limas would get out of prison and move to SF and become involved with the LCN there. Given that this group was in Marion it was most likely a crew and perhaps an early example of Pittsburgh having operations in Ohio very early on.

And Ironically, the 1928 Hotel Statler meeting consisted of mostly guysfrom Cleveland, NYC & Chicago. Coincidence?

[Angelo Santino]

That's very possible and a well thought out conclusion to the limited resources. My thinking tends to take off from the 50's and there were several groups operating in Youngstown separately, the Sicilians, Calabrians and Neapolitans. That's why I thought it could also be an early example of a separate faction operating yet with no interference. But I could certainly see your point as well.

We're not going to know until we shell out 500 for the transcripts. I could be right or I could wrong. With the mafia, there's an exception or alternative to every so-called rule or pattern and this could be one of them. Given that the Banana Society and 'Pittsburgh' had roots in Trabia and Termini Imerisi may speak to a connection orrrrr be a major fucking outlier. Give me 6 months and I'll order it, if you want we can split the cost, whatever. After that we can confer with the consiglio (you, me, Rick, Lennert) and banter about it. Because I have no problem admitting I have alot of questions and consider myself expertised rather than a definitive expert.

And Ironically, the 1928 Hotel Statler meeting consisted of mostly guysfrom Cleveland, NYC & Chicago. Coincidence?

Not sure what you mean, if you're referring to the American LCN please enlighten me, if it's about other things please pm me. From what I know, and it's quite very little, it occurred after D'Aquila's and Lombardo's murder so I assumed it was related to those changes as well as bootlegging rackets. Given that Florida and other cities were also represented I'm not sure how much the issues covered were limited to those CL, NYC and CHI alone. I'm open to other theories, most likely better researched and thought out than my own assumption (which quite honestly are the mother of all fuck ups). So admitably the Cleveland meeting I could/should learn more about so I can have a better understanding.

One question I have: Were all those arrested confirmed as the only ones who attended the meeting or is it an earlier Appachin where some (many) may have evaded capture.

As far as Frank Amato's ties, I believe I have a theory but call or email me about it. Like with most Mafia outcomes: very anticlimatic.

[JCB1977]

That's very possible and a well thought out conclusion to the limited resources. My thinking tends to take off from the 50's and there were several groups operating in Youngstown separately, the Sicilians, Calabrians and Neapolitans. That's why I thought it could also be an early example of a separate faction operating yet with no interference. But I could certainly see your point as well.

We're not going to know until we shell out 500 for the transcripts. I could be right or I could wrong. With the mafia, there's an exception or alternative to every so-called rule or pattern and this could be one of them. Given that the Banana Society and 'Pittsburgh' had roots in Trabia and Termini Imerisi may speak to a connection orrrrr be a major fucking outlier. Give me 6 months and I'll order it, if you want we can split the cost, whatever. After that we can confer with the consiglio (you, me, Rick, Lennert) and banter about it. Because I have no problem admitting I have alot of questions and consider myself expertised rather than a definitive expert.

And Ironically, the 1928 Hotel Statler meeting consisted of mostly guysfrom Cleveland, NYC & Chicago. Coincidence?

Not sure what you mean, if you're referring to the American LCN please enlighten me, if it's about other things please pm me. From what I know, and it's quite very little, it occurred after D'Aquila's and Lombardo's murder so I assumed it was related to those changes as well as bootlegging rackets. Given that Florida and other cities were also represented I'm not sure how much the issues covered were limited to those CL, NYC and CHI alone. I'm open to other theories, most likely better researched and thought out than my own assumption (which quite honestly are the mother of all fuck ups). So admitably the Cleveland meeting I could/should learn more about so I can have a better understanding.

One question I have: Were all those arrested confirmed as the only ones who attended the meeting or is it an earlier Appachin where some (many) may have evaded capture.

As far as Frank Amato's ties, I believe I have a theory but call or email me about it. Like with most Mafia outcomes: very anticlimatic.

Check your email

[JCB1977]

I was looking over the information and it looks like it was a mistake an informant made to put Scalish on the Commission. All the info before and after the one informant don't have Scalish on it.
http://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html ... 4&tab=page

Here are a few links to FBI documents that "reported" that John Scalish was a commission member:

http://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html ... 5&tab=page

http://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html ... commission

This report an informant states that Frank Milano was a Commission Member

http://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html ... commission

[Antiliar]

For the first two links, they depend on the one informant who I believe is mistaken. The third link, about Milano, isn't Nick Gentile, but the story that he read in the Saturday Evening Post was about Gentile. That story must have awaken some old memories, but he's a second witness to state that Milano was on the Commission. In my opinion, Frank Milano was on the Commission for only a few years, maybe up to 1934. Then he stepped down and was replaced in Cleveland by Romano, but his Commission seat was dropped.

The timeline is confused. Gentile says that Milano was on the Commission and the Cleveland boss in 1931/32. Then Angelo Lonardo said he killed Dr. Romano in 1936 with the permission of Milano, but that Romano was the ex-boss. Another informant confirms that Romano was a boss in the 1930s. So was Milano sort of like a Tony Accardo or Paul Ricca and give approval to kill a boss? Seems to indicate that Cleveland was removed from the Commission for this incident. Maybe Lonardo meant Romano was a former boss when he said it, that he was a former boss at the time that he was testifying, not at the time he killed him. So who's on first?

[JCB1977]

For the first two links, they depend on the one informant who I believe is mistaken. The third link, about Milano, isn't Nick Gentile, but the story that he read in the Saturday Evening Post was about Gentile. That story must have awaken some old memories, but he's a second witness to state that Milano was on the Commission. In my opinion, Frank Milano was on the Commission for only a few years, maybe up to 1934. Then he stepped down and was replaced in Cleveland by Romano, but his Commission seat was dropped.

The timeline is confused. Gentile says that Milano was on the Commission and the Cleveland boss in 1931/32. Then Angelo Lonardo said he killed Dr. Romano in 1936 with the permission of Milano, but that Romano was the ex-boss. Another informant confirms that Romano was a boss in the 1930s. So was Milano sort of like a Tony Accardo or Paul Ricca and give approval to kill a boss? Seems to indicate that Cleveland was removed from the Commission for this incident. Maybe Lonardo meant Romano was a former boss when he said it, that he was a former boss at the time that he was testifying, not at the time he killed him. So who's on first?

I have contended that Tony Milano called the shots, not John Scalish. Especially in the 50's-60's. I do not have extensive knowledge on Frank Milano but I do believe he was an original commission member.

Lonardo was one of the most accurate witnesses in FBI history. So his recollection is not to be discredited.

[Antiliar]

We both agree that Frank Milano was on the Commission. I'm not discrediting Lonardo, but it's normal after a long time for memories to get a little confused, or he didn't explain himself as well as he could have. Aside from the confusion I believe his account is accurate.

I found another possible early leader. Ignazio Lascola of Allegheny, PA, was corresponding with Giuseppe Morello in 1902/03.

[The Greek]

Keep in mind that at the height of these families powers the bulk of Steel was being made in the world was made in Cleveland and Pittsburgh, especially in Youngstown. Jobs meant money and money means gambling.

The All American Club, just outside of downtown Youngstown, was considered the most productive casino outside of Las Vegas. Additionally the clubs that Pittsburgh controlled in Chester West Virginia were huge producers.

There has always been something special about being the big fish in a small pond

Was the All American Club in Campbell? I remember my Dad and a bunch of other Greeks meeting Frankie Lentine at a club in Campbell. This must have been in 1980 or 81. I was just a kid but tagging along w my Dad.