Scarfo Sr is dead.

[Rocco]

Scoops Licata in particular was close to the Luccheses. He was indicted in that big 1980s case asgainst the NJ Luccheses and LE believed he was a Lucchese associate for many years. I'd be curious if he maintained any kind of relationship with Scarfo Jr.

Scoops didn't like Scarfo Jr. No one did really in the Newark Bruno crew. He was an outsider. His closest friend was Merola. He was only made into the Luccheses because of his fathers relationship with Vic Amuso. Scarfo didn't know anyone in the NJ Lucchese crew that well. Prior to getting made he was much closer to the Newark Gambino guys. Mostly the guys that were into bookmaking. Merola bounced around between the Gambino, Lucchese and what was left of the Colombo crew in the late 80s and early 90s before he went to prison and got in Jackie Damico's ear. After he came out of prison the 1990s he was with the Gambino's.
Once Nicky Jr had a falling out with Merola he pretty much made plans to move south and that's when he started putting together his own crew of Philly Associates.
Trust me Madonna was in on getting Nicky Jr bumped down and installing Ralph Sr prior to Mike T getting out. It was important for Mike P to have Madonna put his brother in as Capo before Mike T coming home. Ralph is/was keeping the seat warm for his brother. The only reason Ralph his two sons and nephew got made was before of Mike P's relationship with Madonna and several other NY guys he did time with.
In a nutshell... Nicky Jr getting bumped down was just him getting caught in the middle of the Taccetta and Perna rivalry. Remember everyone thought that Marty was here to stay and that he was getting get a new trial , take and plea with time served. Mike P moved to get Ralph installed as Capo prior to having both Marty and Mike T on the streets at the same time. Yeah the taking over Philly shit was in the papers and yeah it wasn't good for biz etc. But it was more hype then anything. It was just used in LCN politics to get the kid pushed out and the Ps in power.
Its crazy because the Ps and Ts are cousins and their wives all talk as do most of the kids. Yet you have the adult men constantly jockeying for power and going behind each others back. You had Marty going to NY to meet with Joe DiNapoli in an attempt to circumvent Ralph. Mean while Joe DiNap goes right to Madonna to fill him in. Madonna relys that info to Ralph who then tells Mike P in the can.

Go back to the wiretaps . You will see that the day Nicky is given word that he is bumped down at a rest stop on the Parkway by Lil Joe. He immediately asks Lil Joe to send a message asking to move to FL to ge the hell out of dodge. Nicky Jr knew 100% that he was gonna get bumped down even before he moved into that house in S. Jersey. Its the reason he moved south from the getgo. If you know allot about the history of the Ps and Ts. It make sense 100%. Then add in the theory of Merlino being in Lil Joe's ear about Scarfo Jr. Merlino is everything that these guys look up to. He is everything that they are not. A gangster. Pulled off murders and walked. etc. John and Lil Joe are nothing like their uncle or Merlino. They idiolize guys like Merlino. Scarfo Jr is allot of things. But he is not dumb. That's why he went south. Then wanted to move to FL asap.

[Fughedaboutit]

Scoops Licata in particular was close to the Luccheses. He was indicted in that big 1980s case asgainst the NJ Luccheses and LE believed he was a Lucchese associate for many years. I'd be curious if he maintained any kind of relationship with Scarfo Jr.

Scoops didn't like Scarfo Jr. No one did really in the Newark Bruno crew. He was an outsider. His closest friend was Merola. He was only made into the Luccheses because of his fathers relationship with Vic Amuso. Scarfo didn't know anyone in the NJ Lucchese crew that well. Prior to getting made he was much closer to the Newark Gambino guys. Mostly the guys that were into bookmaking. Merola bounced around between the Gambino, Lucchese and what was left of the Colombo crew in the late 80s and early 90s before he went to prison and got in Jackie Damico's ear. After he came out of prison the 1990s he was with the Gambino's.
Once Nicky Jr had a falling out with Merola he pretty much made plans to move south and that's when he started putting together his own crew of Philly Associates.
Trust me Madonna was in on getting Nicky Jr bumped down and installing Ralph Sr prior to Mike T getting out. It was important for Mike P to have Madonna put his brother in as Capo before Mike T coming home. Ralph is/was keeping the seat warm for his brother. The only reason Ralph his two sons and nephew got made was before of Mike P's relationship with Madonna and several other NY guys he did time with.
In a nutshell... Nicky Jr getting bumped down was just him getting caught in the middle of the Taccetta and Perna rivalry. Remember everyone thought that Marty was here to stay and that he was getting get a new trial , take and plea with time served. Mike P moved to get Ralph installed as Capo prior to having both Marty and Mike T on the streets at the same time. Yeah the taking over Philly shit was in the papers and yeah it wasn't good for biz etc. But it was more hype then anything. It was just used in LCN politics to get the kid pushed out and the Ps in power.
Its crazy because the Ps and Ts are cousins and their wives all talk as do most of the kids. Yet you have the adult men constantly jockeying for power and going behind each others back. You had Marty going to NY to meet with Joe DiNapoli in an attempt to circumvent Ralph. Mean while Joe DiNap goes right to Madonna to fill him in. Madonna relys that info to Ralph who then tells Mike P in the can.

Go back to the wiretaps . You will see that the day Nicky is given word that he is bumped down at a rest stop on the Parkway by Lil Joe. He immediately asks Lil Joe to send a message asking to move to FL to ge the hell out of dodge. Nicky Jr knew 100% that he was gonna get bumped down even before he moved into that house in S. Jersey. Its the reason he moved south from the getgo. If you know allot about the history of the Ps and Ts. It make sense 100%. Then add in the theory of Merlino being in Lil Joe's ear about Scarfo Jr. Merlino is everything that these guys look up to. He is everything that they are not. A gangster. Pulled off murders and walked. etc. John and Lil Joe are nothing like their uncle or Merlino. They idiolize guys like Merlino. Scarfo Jr is allot of things. But he is not dumb. That's why he went south. Then wanted to move to FL asap.

Still pretty impressive he was inducted, didnt know anyone and still made captain.

If there was this big conspiracy to bump him down, I don't get why he made captain at all? Why not keep him a soldier?

[OlBlueEyesClub]

The wiretaps support Madonna at least for specific amount of time admired Jr's. work as NJ Capo of the Lucchese's. Maybe he did have a role in Jr being bumped down, the final order came from NY so he had to play a part, but I'm not sure if it was because of some giant dislike for Jr. or simply because he felt Ralph Perna would do a better job. Which is what he says when he said "The one doing the best job is that Ralphie".

[Rocco]

Scoops Licata in particular was close to the Luccheses. He was indicted in that big 1980s case asgainst the NJ Luccheses and LE believed he was a Lucchese associate for many years. I'd be curious if he maintained any kind of relationship with Scarfo Jr.

Scoops didn't like Scarfo Jr. No one did really in the Newark Bruno crew. He was an outsider. His closest friend was Merola. He was only made into the Luccheses because of his fathers relationship with Vic Amuso. Scarfo didn't know anyone in the NJ Lucchese crew that well. Prior to getting made he was much closer to the Newark Gambino guys. Mostly the guys that were into bookmaking. Merola bounced around between the Gambino, Lucchese and what was left of the Colombo crew in the late 80s and early 90s before he went to prison and got in Jackie Damico's ear. After he came out of prison the 1990s he was with the Gambino's.
Once Nicky Jr had a falling out with Merola he pretty much made plans to move south and that's when he started putting together his own crew of Philly Associates.
Trust me Madonna was in on getting Nicky Jr bumped down and installing Ralph Sr prior to Mike T getting out. It was important for Mike P to have Madonna put his brother in as Capo before Mike T coming home. Ralph is/was keeping the seat warm for his brother. The only reason Ralph his two sons and nephew got made was before of Mike P's relationship with Madonna and several other NY guys he did time with.
In a nutshell... Nicky Jr getting bumped down was just him getting caught in the middle of the Taccetta and Perna rivalry. Remember everyone thought that Marty was here to stay and that he was getting get a new trial , take and plea with time served. Mike P moved to get Ralph installed as Capo prior to having both Marty and Mike T on the streets at the same time. Yeah the taking over Philly shit was in the papers and yeah it wasn't good for biz etc. But it was more hype then anything. It was just used in LCN politics to get the kid pushed out and the Ps in power.
Its crazy because the Ps and Ts are cousins and their wives all talk as do most of the kids. Yet you have the adult men constantly jockeying for power and going behind each others back. You had Marty going to NY to meet with Joe DiNapoli in an attempt to circumvent Ralph. Mean while Joe DiNap goes right to Madonna to fill him in. Madonna relys that info to Ralph who then tells Mike P in the can.

Go back to the wiretaps . You will see that the day Nicky is given word that he is bumped down at a rest stop on the Parkway by Lil Joe. He immediately asks Lil Joe to send a message asking to move to FL to ge the hell out of dodge. Nicky Jr knew 100% that he was gonna get bumped down even before he moved into that house in S. Jersey. Its the reason he moved south from the getgo. If you know allot about the history of the Ps and Ts. It make sense 100%. Then add in the theory of Merlino being in Lil Joe's ear about Scarfo Jr. Merlino is everything that these guys look up to. He is everything that they are not. A gangster. Pulled off murders and walked. etc. John and Lil Joe are nothing like their uncle or Merlino. They idiolize guys like Merlino. Scarfo Jr is allot of things. But he is not dumb. That's why he went south. Then wanted to move to FL asap.

Still pretty impressive he was inducted, didnt know anyone and still made captain.

If there was this big conspiracy to bump him down, I don't get why he made captain at all? Why not keep him a soldier?

ralph and his son lil joe were made shortly before john and cuz big joe. Ralph had not been made that long before capo. When Madonna got out of the can and got made, ralph getting made looked more promising. As Madonna ascended he made the Pernas. Scarfo was made early 1990s. There was a void in Jersey. Scarfo had Amuso's backing. Personally I think once Crea was on the streets running the show Amuso's pull started to weaken for things like who is Capo and who isn't. Hes not on the street so how could he known who should be where etc. I think the panel reported to Crea not Amuso. They busted Scarfo down, Amuso probably sent word to as why because Scarfo sr had his ear and they sent word back that Scarfo Jr was making trouble with Philly. I think Amuso wanted him there as Capo rather then a T or P. Since the early 90s the family had someone like hooks and scarfo jr toplay ref between the t"s and P's. With Mike P and Mike T coming out the same time Mike P made a play for the seat thru Madonna and others.

[Rocco]

The wiretaps support Madonna at least for specific amount of time admired Jr's. work as NJ Capo of the Lucchese's. Maybe he did have a role in Jr being bumped down, the final order came from NY so he had to play a part, but I'm not sure if it was because of some giant dislike for Jr. or simply because he felt Ralph Perna would do a better job. Which is what he says when he said "The one doing the best job is that Ralphie".

they had Scarfo jr there playing ref. Perna's were always out earning JR with their sports book. They have always had a large bookmaking operation way before any of them were even made,

[Pogo The Clown]

Scarfo Jr. wasn't made until he got out of prison. It would have been sometime between 1998-2000.


Pogo

[Rocco]

Scarfo Jr. wasn't made until he got out of prison. It would have been sometime between 1998-2000.


Pogo

Still made way before Ralph Sr. Waaay before.

[Rocco]

Scarfo Jr. wasn't made until he got out of prison. It would have been sometime between 1998-2000.


Pogo

Still made way before Ralph Sr. Waaay before. At this point it realy doesn't even matter what the fuck happened to Scarfo Jr. He gone for 30yr yrs and f he survives it he will come out of prison dead broke and 83 yrs old.
More interesting would be some info on Mike Taccetta and WTF he is up to since coming home after 23yrs. I would have to imagine that he is pulling all kinds of angles to be relevant in the world of LCN in NJ. LE I am sure is keeping tabs on him.

[Pete]

Scarfo Jr. wasn't made until he got out of prison. It would have been sometime between 1998-2000.


Pogo

Still made way before Ralph Sr. Waaay before. At this point it realy doesn't even matter what the fuck happened to Scarfo Jr. He gone for 30yr yrs and f he survives it he will come out of prison dead broke and 83 yrs old.
More interesting would be some info on Mike Taccetta and WTF he is up to since coming home after 23yrs. I would have to imagine that he is pulling all kinds of angles to be relevant in the world of LCN in NJ. LE I am sure is keeping tabs on him.

Scarfo will be 73 in 2037 when he is due to get out

[Rocco]

Scarfo Jr. wasn't made until he got out of prison. It would have been sometime between 1998-2000.


Pogo

Still made way before Ralph Sr. Waaay before. At this point it realy doesn't even matter what the fuck happened to Scarfo Jr. He gone for 30yr yrs and f he survives it he will come out of prison dead broke and 83 yrs old.
More interesting would be some info on Mike Taccetta and WTF he is up to since coming home after 23yrs. I would have to imagine that he is pulling all kinds of angles to be relevant in the world of LCN in NJ. LE I am sure is keeping tabs on him.

Scarfo will be 73 in 2037 when he is due to get out

Still old and dead broke. And working under one of the Perna's who are much younger them him. If they are not locked up. But 20plus yrs from now it wont even be the same out there. Scarfo Jr had been unable to stay out of prison for the most part. His last stint he walked out in 2005. he lasted 5yrs before he was arrested in 2010. Luckily avoided the state case of 2007 but the feds threw him in there in 2010. THen first plus in 2011. He stole millions lived large(like and idiot) for 2.5yrs till he was arrested. Its over for him.

[BobbyPazzo]

Scoops Licata in particular was close to the Luccheses. He was indicted in that big 1980s case asgainst the NJ Luccheses and LE believed he was a Lucchese associate for many years. I'd be curious if he maintained any kind of relationship with Scarfo Jr.

Scoops didn't like Scarfo Jr. No one did really in the Newark Bruno crew. He was an outsider. His closest friend was Merola. He was only made into the Luccheses because of his fathers relationship with Vic Amuso. Scarfo didn't know anyone in the NJ Lucchese crew that well. Prior to getting made he was much closer to the Newark Gambino guys. Mostly the guys that were into bookmaking. Merola bounced around between the Gambino, Lucchese and what was left of the Colombo crew in the late 80s and early 90s before he went to prison and got in Jackie Damico's ear. After he came out of prison the 1990s he was with the Gambino's.
Once Nicky Jr had a falling out with Merola he pretty much made plans to move south and that's when he started putting together his own crew of Philly Associates.
Trust me Madonna was in on getting Nicky Jr bumped down and installing Ralph Sr prior to Mike T getting out. It was important for Mike P to have Madonna put his brother in as Capo before Mike T coming home. Ralph is/was keeping the seat warm for his brother. The only reason Ralph his two sons and nephew got made was before of Mike P's relationship with Madonna and several other NY guys he did time with.
In a nutshell... Nicky Jr getting bumped down was just him getting caught in the middle of the Taccetta and Perna rivalry. Remember everyone thought that Marty was here to stay and that he was getting get a new trial , take and plea with time served. Mike P moved to get Ralph installed as Capo prior to having both Marty and Mike T on the streets at the same time. Yeah the taking over Philly shit was in the papers and yeah it wasn't good for biz etc. But it was more hype then anything. It was just used in LCN politics to get the kid pushed out and the Ps in power.
Its crazy because the Ps and Ts are cousins and their wives all talk as do most of the kids. Yet you have the adult men constantly jockeying for power and going behind each others back. You had Marty going to NY to meet with Joe DiNapoli in an attempt to circumvent Ralph. Mean while Joe DiNap goes right to Madonna to fill him in. Madonna relys that info to Ralph who then tells Mike P in the can.

Go back to the wiretaps . You will see that the day Nicky is given word that he is bumped down at a rest stop on the Parkway by Lil Joe. He immediately asks Lil Joe to send a message asking to move to FL to ge the hell out of dodge. Nicky Jr knew 100% that he was gonna get bumped down even before he moved into that house in S. Jersey. Its the reason he moved south from the getgo. If you know allot about the history of the Ps and Ts. It make sense 100%. Then add in the theory of Merlino being in Lil Joe's ear about Scarfo Jr. Merlino is everything that these guys look up to. He is everything that they are not. A gangster. Pulled off murders and walked. etc. John and Lil Joe are nothing like their uncle or Merlino. They idiolize guys like Merlino. Scarfo Jr is allot of things. But he is not dumb. That's why he went south. Then wanted to move to FL asap.

This is a great post rock

[Fughedaboutit]

Scoops Licata in particular was close to the Luccheses. He was indicted in that big 1980s case asgainst the NJ Luccheses and LE believed he was a Lucchese associate for many years. I'd be curious if he maintained any kind of relationship with Scarfo Jr.

Scoops didn't like Scarfo Jr. No one did really in the Newark Bruno crew. He was an outsider. His closest friend was Merola. He was only made into the Luccheses because of his fathers relationship with Vic Amuso. Scarfo didn't know anyone in the NJ Lucchese crew that well. Prior to getting made he was much closer to the Newark Gambino guys. Mostly the guys that were into bookmaking. Merola bounced around between the Gambino, Lucchese and what was left of the Colombo crew in the late 80s and early 90s before he went to prison and got in Jackie Damico's ear. After he came out of prison the 1990s he was with the Gambino's.
Once Nicky Jr had a falling out with Merola he pretty much made plans to move south and that's when he started putting together his own crew of Philly Associates.
Trust me Madonna was in on getting Nicky Jr bumped down and installing Ralph Sr prior to Mike T getting out. It was important for Mike P to have Madonna put his brother in as Capo before Mike T coming home. Ralph is/was keeping the seat warm for his brother. The only reason Ralph his two sons and nephew got made was before of Mike P's relationship with Madonna and several other NY guys he did time with.
In a nutshell... Nicky Jr getting bumped down was just him getting caught in the middle of the Taccetta and Perna rivalry. Remember everyone thought that Marty was here to stay and that he was getting get a new trial , take and plea with time served. Mike P moved to get Ralph installed as Capo prior to having both Marty and Mike T on the streets at the same time. Yeah the taking over Philly shit was in the papers and yeah it wasn't good for biz etc. But it was more hype then anything. It was just used in LCN politics to get the kid pushed out and the Ps in power.
Its crazy because the Ps and Ts are cousins and their wives all talk as do most of the kids. Yet you have the adult men constantly jockeying for power and going behind each others back. You had Marty going to NY to meet with Joe DiNapoli in an attempt to circumvent Ralph. Mean while Joe DiNap goes right to Madonna to fill him in. Madonna relys that info to Ralph who then tells Mike P in the can.

Go back to the wiretaps . You will see that the day Nicky is given word that he is bumped down at a rest stop on the Parkway by Lil Joe. He immediately asks Lil Joe to send a message asking to move to FL to ge the hell out of dodge. Nicky Jr knew 100% that he was gonna get bumped down even before he moved into that house in S. Jersey. Its the reason he moved south from the getgo. If you know allot about the history of the Ps and Ts. It make sense 100%. Then add in the theory of Merlino being in Lil Joe's ear about Scarfo Jr. Merlino is everything that these guys look up to. He is everything that they are not. A gangster. Pulled off murders and walked. etc. John and Lil Joe are nothing like their uncle or Merlino. They idiolize guys like Merlino. Scarfo Jr is allot of things. But he is not dumb. That's why he went south. Then wanted to move to FL asap.

Still pretty impressive he was inducted, didnt know anyone and still made captain.

If there was this big conspiracy to bump him down, I don't get why he made captain at all? Why not keep him a soldier?

ralph and his son lil joe were made shortly before john and cuz big joe. Ralph had not been made that long before capo. When Madonna got out of the can and got made, ralph getting made looked more promising. As Madonna ascended he made the Pernas. Scarfo was made early 1990s. There was a void in Jersey. Scarfo had Amuso's backing. Personally I think once Crea was on the streets running the show Amuso's pull started to weaken for things like who is Capo and who isn't. Hes not on the street so how could he known who should be where etc. I think the panel reported to Crea not Amuso. They busted Scarfo down, Amuso probably sent word to as why because Scarfo sr had his ear and they sent word back that Scarfo Jr was making trouble with Philly. I think Amuso wanted him there as Capo rather then a T or P. Since the early 90s the family had someone like hooks and scarfo jr toplay ref between the t"s and P's. With Mike P and Mike T coming out the same time Mike P made a play for the seat thru Madonna and others.

That makes sense...timing really.

But I dont take anything away from Scarfo JR....guy could earn

[OlBlueEyesClub]

Scarfo Jr wasn't made any where near the early 90s, just for the record. Early 90s he was recuperating from the Merlino attempt and was still operating under the protection of the Down Neck Philly Crew (Patty Specs Crew). I think it was the mid 90s Johnny Hooks came into the picture as head of the NJ Lukes, and wasn't until '05 when he was out of the picture, after being caught up in an extortion charge, I believe. Scarfo Jr then replaced him, and as Pogo said Scarfo Jr wasn't made until he got out between '98-'01, I'd say. Scarfo Jr was then replaced when Ralph V. Perna was named captain in August of '07. The main intent was to act as a mediator for the Perna/Taccetta feud, but I don't think business took a backseat as well. And again, as supported by the wiretaps, Jr had support from NY for a while if you think Madonna saying "even The Kid, did a good job", is any implication of that, like I do.

[Rocco]

Scarfo Jr wasn't made any where near the early 90s, just for the record. Early 90s he was recuperating from the Merlino attempt and was still operating under the protection of the Down Neck Philly Crew (Patty Specs Crew). I think it was the mid 90s Johnny Hooks came into the picture as head of the NJ Lukes, and wasn't until '05 when he was out of the picture, after being caught up in an extortion charge, I believe. Scarfo Jr then replaced him, and as Pogo said Scarfo Jr wasn't made until he got out between '98-'01, I'd say. Scarfo Jr was then replaced when Ralph V. Perna was named captain in August of '07. The main intent was to act as a mediator for the Perna/Taccetta feud, but I don't think business took a backseat as well. And again, as supported by the wiretaps, Jr had support from NY for a while if you think Madonna saying "even The Kid, did a good job", is any implication of that, like I do.

I believe he was made in late 98' early 99' after he got out of prison for the Fresolone fiasco. Correct hooks was mid-90s if not sooner. Some say he came into the picture earlier then that since most of the leaders from the NJ crew had been locked up since the early 90s. Mike T even earlier then that since he went away on a gun charge to the fed pen then was pretty much transferred to State prison. Correct Scarfo was put there as a neutral figure to play ref more then anything. He was bumped up to acting Capo after hooks went down. Correct Madonna said the kid did a good job playing Ref for the Ts and Ps. But all he was referring was Carlo T and Ralph and his sons. Scarfo Jr did not have a good run of things because as soon as he got going earning he was arrested. Same goes for First Plus. a few short yrs he was gone. They could have arrested him in the 07 State case on Conspiracy alone but didn't so the Feds could continue the first plus case I suppose. Either way. LCN has not been a good career move for Jr Scarfo. He has spent most of his adult like in prison and now another 30yrs. He is a good example of the olde saying Doing Life on the Extended program...lol

My two cents:
I think Madonna and the Panel realized that the only way you are going to have peace in NJ between the Hatfield and Mccoys is to name one the leader. And that's what they did. They named the Perna's king of the hill. YOu can say yeah Scarfo earned, Scarfo had support from NY(of course they put him there as Capo didn't they?). Scarfo as Capo was a temporary gig . With Mike T and Mike P coming home around the same time everyone knew that. Everyone knew Scarfo would be removed once the real players came home. There is no way that if Marty and Mike T and Mike P were on the street at the same time that Scarfo was going to be able to contain them . Both sides would be circumventing Scarfo , backstabbing him to NY to get him out of the picture and one of themselves installed as Capo. There would be no peace unless NY named either a T or P as Capo. And I believe that is the real reason why Scarfo was bumped down. Scarfo was Ref'ing only Carlo T and Ralph and his sons. The real players were in prison when Scarfo was playing ref. Having them both on the street is a whole other ball game. NY knows this . They remember the issues Casso and Amuso had with them.

[SonnyBlackstein]

Good analysis Rocco.

Appreciated.