Front bosses

[OlBlueEyesClub]

And Luciano not being the originator of the Commission or separate families, that still doesn't make him a front boss.

And Genovese, as in Vito himself, or any boss himself, has not nor have they ever, "pulled the strings for Philly". The Genovese weren't the bosses of The Philadelphia mob, we can say that they manipulated specific Philly bosses and members, to gain further outside terroritory, and rackets that were originally under the auspices of the Philly mob.

Joe Colombo WAS NOT a front boss for Carlo Gambino, and Carlo Gambino WAS NOT the real boss of the Colombos.

Also, the Camorra doesn't have front bosses either. They also don't have "bosses" in the Cosa Nostra sense. They have many bosses and capos, neither is a front but they each serve their own purpose, while also answering to the known guy at the top. He's not a mystery, at least as far as the organization would be concerned. Not ALL of them allow their wives to run their businesses either. I can only think of two examples as far as The Camorra goes, I'm sure there are more, but that's all I personally can think of right now.

[Dwalin2014]

Anyways. Dwalin, yes, its all in the informer which antiliar has sent me the link for a dl able app. But it just a sample. You gotta pay i think 8 a month

But which chapter/number was it, where this specific question was discussed? Maybe I have already bought it, I don't exactly remember, have read those ones time ago. If it's not among the ones I bought, I will buy it ok. Just tell which one it is.

[OlBlueEyesClub]

Actually, no, thats not the one.

[SonnyBlackstein]

The Genovese/Philly relationship was quite complicated immediately post Bruno.

Obviously I wouldn't use the term front/street etc but it would also be correct saying they called the shots directly (in installing new management) for a while.

[JeremyTheJew]

Anyways. Dwalin, yes, its all in the informer which antiliar has sent me the link for a dl able app. But it just a sample. You gotta pay i think 8 a month

But which chapter/number was it, where this specific question was discussed? Maybe I have already bought it, I don't exactly remember, have read those ones time ago. If it's not among the ones I bought, I will buy it ok. Just tell which one it is.

April 12

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[Antiliar]

Due a search on HairyKnuckles's posts on the Genovese Family. He shows how there was never an actual "front boss." In reality the closest thing to a "front boss" or a "beard" is when law enforcement and the media thinks that someone who isn't the boss, is. They're not going to correct public perception and they'll have a good laugh about it. I think this was the case with Frank Nitto.

[Dwalin2014]

Due a search on HairyKnuckles's posts on the Genovese Family. He shows how there was never an actual "front boss." In reality the closest thing to a "front boss" or a "beard" is when law enforcement and the media thinks that someone who isn't the boss, is. They're not going to correct public perception and they'll have a good laugh about it. I think this was the case with Frank Nitto.

By the way, what was his official rank, is it known for sure, if he wasn't official boss "without power" with Ricca as underboss "with real power"? Was it the other way around: Ricca boss and Nitto underboss? And who was the consigliere at the time?
Curiosity: he is always called Nitti, although all documents list him as Nitto, and this was in fact his real last name he always used, so why "Nitti"? Was it a case of repeated misspelling, like Luciano Leggio/Liggio?

[OlBlueEyesClub]

The Genovese/Philly relationship was quite complicated immediately post Bruno.

Obviously I wouldn't use the term front/street etc but it would also be correct saying they called the shots directly (in installing new management) for a while.

I wouldn't even say that. They definitely manipulated key individuals (in reality it was only really two, Caponigro & Scarfo) for their advantage. But in the end, someone like Scarfo still called the shots in Philly 100 percent. He didn't go to the Genovese for any of the individuals he had murdered, nor for the majority of his rackets. I will say the Genovese manipulated certain situations which were occurring in Philly to their advantage to get a boss in place that I guess would be easier to sway towards their direction when it came to lucrative opportunities. I wouldn't say they directly called the shots. Even Scarfo sort of manipulated his way to the boss seat through his relationship with Bobby Manna.

[Antiliar]

Due a search on HairyKnuckles's posts on the Genovese Family. He shows how there was never an actual "front boss." In reality the closest thing to a "front boss" or a "beard" is when law enforcement and the media thinks that someone who isn't the boss, is. They're not going to correct public perception and they'll have a good laugh about it. I think this was the case with Frank Nitto.

By the way, what was his official rank, is it known for sure, if he wasn't official boss "without power" with Ricca as underboss "with real power"? Was it the other way around: Ricca boss and Nitto underboss? And who was the consigliere at the time?
Curiosity: he is always called Nitti, although all documents list him as Nitto, and this was in fact his real last name he always used, so why "Nitti"? Was it a case of repeated misspelling, like Luciano Leggio/Liggio?

To answer your last question first, either the press or the police got his name wrong and repeated the error.

As for Nitto's official rank, we don't know. The only people who might know are older members like DiFronzo, Andriacchi, DeLaurentis and Lombardo based on info passed down to them. Unfortunately for us, they aren't sharing.

[Fughedaboutit]

Okay... See here is the problem with saying front vs street boss....

Regardless of which term ld say Ricca qualifies BC from what it looks like he was a known power behind Nitti.

Same with how Natale was a front for Merlino.
As well as Philly has been said to be a front for Genovese family.
Colombo for Gambino.

Is there anymore that havent been mentioned yet?

Natale wasnt a front for Merlino, though. He thought he was the boss. Merlino was just using him...and didn't actually install him as a front boss like Gigante did with Fat Tony imo

[JeremyTheJew]

Due a search on HairyKnuckles's posts on the Genovese Family. He shows how there was never an actual "front boss." In reality the closest thing to a "front boss" or a "beard" is when law enforcement and the media thinks that someone who isn't the boss, is. They're not going to correct public perception and they'll have a good laugh about it. I think this was the case with Frank Nitto.

By the way, what was his official rank, is it known for sure, if he wasn't official boss "without power" with Ricca as underboss "with real power"? Was it the other way around: Ricca boss and Nitto underboss? And who was the consigliere at the time?
Curiosity: he is always called Nitti, although all documents list him as Nitto, and this was in fact his real last name he always used, so why "Nitti"? Was it a case of repeated misspelling, like Luciano Leggio/Liggio?

To answer your last question first, either the press or the police got his name wrong and repeated the error.

As for Nitto's official rank, we don't know. The only people who might know are older members like DiFronzo, Andriacchi, DeLaurentis and Lombardo based on info passed down to them. Unfortunately for us, they aren't sharing.

Absolutly. I feel ALL media covers for eachother.. Like they should. The FBI, whether ppl know it or not, runs with media such as news and newspapers to get there message out as well as to cover what they have done and show there success.

Can you imagine if the news reported EVERY case that the FBI went after? They would look like a un succesfull organization that in a way represents our countrys justice system.

That being said, yes the media is a "tool" that can be used for the FBI. such as when Gigante was walking around NY in his bathrobe, he was also reading and hearing about how succesfull his idea of the "front boss" was and how succesfull he must have felt.

Then.... As soon as that case was done, when the FBI WON the case, it was "on to the next one" where they went after the REAL BOSS.

See... Ppl dont get that media is a TOOL that can be used against these guys. When they dont read about what they are doing.... They feel safe.

Oh shit, just like with massino fam, when the MEDIA started covering who flipped when and where, all of a sudden.... THE WHOLE FAMILY FLIPPED!

Also.... I dont expecr everyone to even understand this part.... The retraction story.... Is way smaller then then the front page news saying SALERNO WAS BOSS!!!

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[OlBlueEyesClub]

After they convicted Gigante, where do you get the idea they went after the "real boss"? After they convicted Gigante, he admitted from prison, so that the feds wouldnt go after his brother and other members of his blood family, he admitted that the crazy stuff was all an act and that he was THEE Boss of the Genovese. After the Gigante case, the feds and everyone else went back to not knowing whom the boss really was, and because of circumstantial reasoning, everyone decided on Barney Bellomo.

Also the media had nothing to do with the Bonanno guys flipping, they heard from within the family, from their own friends and associates that the top guys were flipping. The media had nothing to do with it, really. Underbosses flipped and implicated capos in crimes, then those whom were implicated, majority of those guys flipped because they had already been implicated by their own friends who flipped before them. Then after that it was a case of "first come first serve" and guys started running to the feds and running their mouths to save their ass. Richard Cantarella for example, the media had nothing to do with his decision to flip, he knew the agents Weinberg & Scozzari had tapes on him, Massino, Coppa & Vitale, not only that, he supposedly wasn't going to talk, he nor his son, until the feds had his wife indicted on money laundering charges, and thats why he inevitably talked. Nothing to do with the media. And he possibly had the knowledge of Frank Coppa flipping before him, Coppa was the first of the group to flip, he was facing a seven year sentence for stock fraud. The feds had him on racketeering charges, he supposedly had some heart condition, and knew he'd be spending the rest of his foreseeable life in prison. The man cried during his sentence in the 90's because he missed his family, there was no way he was going to do time anymore, so he cooperated. The media had NO influence on his decision. I can go on about how the media had nothing to do with their decision to flip, but I won't, I think those two examples should suffice.

[Wiseguy]

I'm a little late reading this thread.

First, it got to a point where the Genovese family was dictating things to Philly. They banished one Philly guy to Florida. They made Scarfo the boss after Testa's murder and told Scarfo to take care of the conspirators. Leonetti said himself in his book it was New York who had the final say.

Second, I don't know if I'm reading some of the above posts right, but I sure hope people aren't calling into question Gigante being the real boss even when most thought it was Salerno. Furthermore, the feds don't just slap labels on guys to suit themselves. That's simply horseshit some people on the forums have always spewed in a futile effort to discredit the feds so they can in turn justify themselves and their own crackpot theories.The feds had Bellomo as the acting boss long before Gigante was convicted. And if they wanted to just slap a label on Bellomo, they could have done it long ago.

[Pogo The Clown]

First, it got to a point where the Genovese family was dictating things to Philly. They banished one Philly guy to Florida. They made Scarfo the boss after Testa's murder and told Scarfo to take care of the conspirators. Leonetti said himself in his book it was New York who had the final say.

That was more the Commission dictating things. The Genovese were just the point men.


Pogo

[OlBlueEyesClub]

First, it got to a point where the Genovese family was dictating things to Philly. They banished one Philly guy to Florida. They made Scarfo the boss after Testa's murder and told Scarfo to take care of the conspirators. Leonetti said himself in his book it was New York who had the final say.

That was more the Commission dictating things. The Genovese were just the point men.


Pogo

Exactly. And on what exact page did Leonetti say NY had the final say? Not saying he didn't I just don't recall reading that, I'm just asking because it's very possible I skipped over it or it's just slipping my brain right now. And they banished Casella, because he'd had a prior connection going way back into like the 50's with an unnamed Genovese capo, according to Leonetti. I did some searching a while ago trying to figure out if I could possibly find the identity of this unnamed capo, and saw that Casella was indicted for drug trafficking with a few Philly guys, and some guys out NY, some by the way of Greenwich Village, but I couldn't find any name I recognized, so I let that little project die a silent death.

And according to Leonetti, it was Scarfo who basically made Phil Testa step up as boss when he told him after the death of Bruno, "Let New York get to the bottom of this plot and figure out what they're gonna do about it, but in the meantime you step up. You were the underboss and you become acting boss, and we sit back and wait for New York." This was before Gigante supposedly told him and Scarfo that the commission decided Testa would be boss and Scarfo would be his underboss or consigliere. So basically, Testa was already installed as boss by the powers of Philly, they were simply hoping and waiting for the Genovese to back them, which they ultimately did.