DeCavalcante Admin Succession

[toto]

Great discussion!

I was thinking this first family might be a matter of interpretation - leaving on the one side the New Orleans family. So perhaps the few people who formed the earliest New York family then later formed Elizabeth family and so they think it as a continuity of the original one so to speak.

So when Stango talked of "Milk" then perhaps thats the name for Majuri and especially somebody (B.?? or Chris maybe) mentioned that Majuri's are perhaps relatives of Gagliano's and they are all from Corleone.

bronx, I notice you mention the Rumore name a few times. Is it your relatives or they were the paesani of your father/grandfather? I mean no offence to ask this merely curious.

[Angelo Santino]

Great discussion!

I was thinking this first family might be a matter of interpretation - leaving on the one side the New Orleans family. So perhaps the few people who formed the earliest New York family then later formed Elizabeth family and so they think it as a continuity of the original one so to speak.

So when Stango talked of "Milk" then perhaps thats the name for Majuri and especially somebody (B.?? or Chris maybe) mentioned that Majuri's are perhaps relatives of Gagliano's and they are all from Corleone.

bronx, I notice you mention the Rumore name a few times. Is it your relatives or they were the paesani of your father/grandfather? I mean no offence to ask this merely curious.

The first Family in NYC would have been the Gambinos who were 'probably' up and running by 1860 certainly no later than 1870 and they were primarily Palermitan with Agrigento and Messina subgroups as early as 1910. If the Ribera element was active in NYC it would been in that Agrigento/Sciaccatani subgroup of the Palermitans. As for the Corleonesi angle, again they arrived in NYC during the 1890's, before then they were in Louisiana and Texas since 1870 and they were related to the Corleonesi in Harlem. Al Pacino's family also came from Harlem on E 108 St. The Corleonesi were conglomerated around E 106 up to E 109. Farther north you go the more mainlander it got, especially around E 113th.

Majuri might have been originally spelled Maggiore which I know there to be several blood families with that surname in Corleone.

[bronx]

no offense taken Chris, just wanted to add to a good subject ..rumore's had the coca cola union, his father i believe antonino was with daquila they came from bisacquino..i believe they landing in harlem first .both of his sone were made antonino was murdered during the war way back..maybe you can find out the date he was murdered ..i know a little bit about that history of the derobertis crew and that area, all second hand ..everyone is dead now..

[bronx]

oh it was Toto that asked, nah no relatives just old timers that i knew that spoke about history

[Angelo Santino]

no offense taken Chris, just wanted to add to a good subject ..rumore's had the coca cola union, his father i believe antonino was with daquila they came from bisacquino..i believe they landing in harlem first .both of his sone were made antonino was murdered during the war way back..maybe you can find out the date he was murdered ..i know a little bit about that history of the derobertis crew and that area, all second hand ..everyone is dead now..

I missed your post, Sorry. You asked me this before and from what I can (still) tell, the Rumores that I'm familiar with- Giovanni Rumore was an in-law of Morello, worked at his Ignazio Florio Societa Fra Corleonesi real estate company as an agent and was killed during the Second Mafia war when D'Aquila forces were eliminating Morello allies. Those three reasons lead me to believe that he was with the Morellos/Corleonesi and identified as such by Agent Flynn in 1911. If you have something alternative that proves they were with the Gambinos I'll admit I'm wrong and say good job. I really have nothing more to add.

Maybe Antiliar?

[B.]

The first Family in NYC would have been the Gambinos who were 'probably' up and running by 1860 certainly no later than 1870 and they were primarily Palermitan with Agrigento and Messina subgroups as early as 1910. If the Ribera element was active in NYC it would been in that Agrigento/Sciaccatani subgroup of the Palermitans. As for the Corleonesi angle, again they arrived in NYC during the 1890's, before then they were in Louisiana and Texas since 1870 and they were related to the Corleonesi in Harlem. Al Pacino's family also came from Harlem on E 108 St. The Corleonesi were conglomerated around E 106 up to E 109. Farther north you go the more mainlander it got, especially around E 113th.

Majuri might have been originally spelled Maggiore which I know there to be several blood families with that surname in Corleone.

The earliest records I've found have their name as Maiuri, with an "i" instead of "j". There were other Maiuris connected to the family back in Corleone... Frank was born in East Harlem so you have to figure his father Calogero at the very least brushed shoulders with members of the Morello family. They then moved to Elizabeth and as Chaps' research has shown the Majuris are related at least through marriage to Riberesi. That may be how Frank (or his father, if he was a mafioso) ended up with this family.

If informants had said that the DeCavs split off from an NY family, I think we could easily accept it. But this idea of much larger, politically influential groups splitting off from the small, clannish DeCavs is hard to wrap your mind around.

Yes, back to the DeCavs, I tried with the new thread to shift the separate topic aside and admitably failed.

B's post on the subject is just good reading from an insightful poster. I have no corrections but perhaps some addendums, respectfully.

I'm trying to think of the "something there." I agree. But looking at Elizabeth and New Jersey as a whole, there's very little Sicilian presence there before 1900. The mainlanders predated them by 20 years. In NYC before modern Little Italy you had Mulberry Bend which was south of that. It housed the early Italians arriving and it's conditions is what lead to political reforms so the area was town down. Before it happened, Neapolitans were sizable enough to be noticed leaving NYC for Newark by 1880. Unless someone wants to argue that before 1900 there was a large Sicilian presence that slipped the radar and the DeCav's predate that? If not, we put that aside and ask how else could this be possible? Ribera was mafia connected in Chicago, Eizabeth and Birmingham. Could there have been an early Riberese faction in New Orleans, not exactly it's own group but represented in the Palermitan dominated area? Or perhaps had an early presence in what became the Gambino Family in the 1860's-1880's? That's really the only way this group could be the first group, represented as an early faction... I'm trying not to be dismissive, I agree with you, there's "something there."

There were some "well-known" Riberesi families in Elizabeth before 1905, including John Riggi's grandfather and great-uncles, the Merlos, and some Caterinicchios/Caterinicchias. That said, I think we really have to distance ourselves from the idea that their existence/development was tied to NJ. Elizabeth became their hub, but there is no reason to believe they organically grew out of Elizabeth or that they required a significant Sicilian community outside of their own relatives/paesani. Instead, it seems like a small, clannish network was already in place, though maybe a bit spread out, and this network eventually congregated in Elizabeth. Who knows if that network constituted a formal family before settling in Elizabeth, but I personally think they were most likely recognized as a mafia family before Elizabeth became their HQ.

[Angelo Santino]

The first Family in NYC would have been the Gambinos who were 'probably' up and running by 1860 certainly no later than 1870 and they were primarily Palermitan with Agrigento and Messina subgroups as early as 1910. If the Ribera element was active in NYC it would been in that Agrigento/Sciaccatani subgroup of the Palermitans. As for the Corleonesi angle, again they arrived in NYC during the 1890's, before then they were in Louisiana and Texas since 1870 and they were related to the Corleonesi in Harlem. Al Pacino's family also came from Harlem on E 108 St. The Corleonesi were conglomerated around E 106 up to E 109. Farther north you go the more mainlander it got, especially around E 113th.

Majuri might have been originally spelled Maggiore which I know there to be several blood families with that surname in Corleone.

The earliest records I've found have their name as Maiuri, with an "i" instead of "j". There were other Maiuris connected to the family back in Corleone... Frank was born in East Harlem so you have to figure his father Calogero at the very least brushed shoulders with members of the Morello family. They then moved to Elizabeth and as Chaps' research has shown the Majuris are related at least through marriage to Riberesi. That may be how Frank (or his father, if he was a mafioso) ended up with this family.

If informants had said that the DeCavs split off from an NY family, I think we could easily accept it. But this idea of much larger, politically influential groups splitting off from the small, clannish DeCavs is hard to wrap your mind around.

Yes, back to the DeCavs, I tried with the new thread to shift the separate topic aside and admitably failed.

B's post on the subject is just good reading from an insightful poster. I have no corrections but perhaps some addendums, respectfully.

I'm trying to think of the "something there." I agree. But looking at Elizabeth and New Jersey as a whole, there's very little Sicilian presence there before 1900. The mainlanders predated them by 20 years. In NYC before modern Little Italy you had Mulberry Bend which was south of that. It housed the early Italians arriving and it's conditions is what lead to political reforms so the area was town down. Before it happened, Neapolitans were sizable enough to be noticed leaving NYC for Newark by 1880. Unless someone wants to argue that before 1900 there was a large Sicilian presence that slipped the radar and the DeCav's predate that? If not, we put that aside and ask how else could this be possible? Ribera was mafia connected in Chicago, Eizabeth and Birmingham. Could there have been an early Riberese faction in New Orleans, not exactly it's own group but represented in the Palermitan dominated area? Or perhaps had an early presence in what became the Gambino Family in the 1860's-1880's? That's really the only way this group could be the first group, represented as an early faction... I'm trying not to be dismissive, I agree with you, there's "something there."

There were some "well-known" Riberesi families in Elizabeth before 1905, including John Riggi's grandfather and great-uncles, the Merlos, and some Caterinicchios/Caterinicchias. That said, I think we really have to distance ourselves from the idea that their existence/development was tied to NJ. Elizabeth became their hub, but there is no reason to believe they organically grew out of Elizabeth or that they required a significant Sicilian community outside of their own relatives/paesani. Instead, it seems like a small, clannish network was already in place, though maybe a bit spread out, and this network eventually congregated in Elizabeth. Who knows if that network constituted a formal family before settling in Elizabeth, but I personally think they were most likely recognized as a mafia family before Elizabeth became their HQ.

Great response. I learned some new things and corrected on others. Salut.

Why don't you and I just devise a letter to send to Anthony Rotondo through the Witness Program, all he can do is just not respond. A quick but detailed letter, some things of interest and a list of questions about the Family's history. Can't hurt to try.

[B.]

I'd love to get in touch with him if that's even in the realm of possibilities. Charlie Stango sounded like he was telling the "Drunk History" version, but Rotondo could clear up a lot, or at least tell us what the DeCav family believes their own history is whether it's right or wrong.

D'Arco's info is the strangest to me... saying the NJ family called themselves "La Chiesa" (the church). In all your research, have you ever heard of a mafia group (here or in Sicily) using a name like this or anything else religious?

[Angelo Santino]

I'd love to get in touch with him if that's even in the realm of possibilities. Charlie Stango sounded like he was telling the "Drunk History" version, but Rotondo could clear up a lot, or at least tell us what the DeCav family believes their own history is whether it's right or wrong.

D'Arco's info is the strangest to me... saying the NJ family called themselves "La Chiesa" (the church). In all your research, have you ever heard of a mafia group (here or in Sicily) using a name like this or anything else religious?

It's doable. I'll have to look up exactly how to do it but I believe we send it to his FBI case handler. But again I need to confirm that. I'll do my homework, you start thinking up questions you might want to ask. Admitably Jersey is not my area and to pretend otherwise would be a disservice, so your questions should be the bulk of the letter. But since we're in the preliminary stages (and both hung over from New Years) just mow it over, no rush.

D'Arco's info is the strangest to me... saying the NJ family called themselves "La Chiesa" (the church). In all your research, have you ever heard of a mafia group (here or in Sicily) using a name like this or anything else religious?

We can write him too. We really have nothing to lose. But before we do maybe I should freshen up by reading his book. The last mob book I read was the Leonetti book.

Exact answer: no... But regionally they used different names. La Chiesa I'm acquainted with was related to Napes in the 1830's so probably not a direct connection but the founders of a faction met at a church. There was one Mafia group in the USA that called themselves the Banana Society other than that there was fratuzzi, fratellanza, stuppaghiari etc. La Chiesa sounds nothing like the former, I'm reminded of the Hell's Angels who call their meetings "Church." But didn't the early DeCav bosses put up a church? That may bear some relevance. I'd say this is a definite question to ask to ask D'Arco and Rotondo and hope that they respond.

[Antiliar]

no offense taken Chris, just wanted to add to a good subject ..rumore's had the coca cola union, his father i believe antonino was with daquila they came from bisacquino..i believe they landing in harlem first .both of his sone were made antonino was murdered during the war way back..maybe you can find out the date he was murdered ..i know a little bit about that history of the derobertis crew and that area, all second hand ..everyone is dead now..

I missed your post, Sorry. You asked me this before and from what I can (still) tell, the Rumores that I'm familiar with- Giovanni Rumore was an in-law of Morello, worked at his Ignazio Florio Societa Fra Corleonesi real estate company as an agent and was killed during the Second Mafia war when D'Aquila forces were eliminating Morello allies. Those three reasons lead me to believe that he was with the Morellos/Corleonesi and identified as such by Agent Flynn in 1911. If you have something alternative that proves they were with the Gambinos I'll admit I'm wrong and say good job. I really have nothing more to add.

Maybe Antiliar?

Rumore wasn't an uncommon name. They were two different families. John (Giovanni) Rumore was from Corleone and was with the Morellos. Antonino Rumore, the father of Sam and Louis, was from Bisaquino and lived on 13th Street in Mid-Town Manhattan in the area where the Virzis, Riccobonos and Biondos lived. The Bisaquino Rumores were Gambinos, but as far as I know they never rose about being soldiers.

[bronx]

that is them, Antiliar..great work,yes they were soldiers till they died.. antonino is exactly whom i was inquiring about , do you have a date he was murdered? sam died mid 90's louie after..

[bronx]

you guys are good

[Antiliar]

that is them, Antiliar..great work,yes they were soldiers till they died.. antonino is exactly whom i was inquiring about , do you have a date he was murdered? sam died mid 90's louie after..

I have March, 1965.

[bronx]

thanks Antiliar, i thought it was way back,interesting

[OlBlueEyesClub]

Anybody have a transcript or a link where I can either read or hear Stango's explanation in relation to the Jersey families origins?