Did the other families know about the Genovese "front boss" system?

[HairyKnuckles]

It´s a myth that the Genoveses used a "front boss system" as a way of running things. The Family certainly had a formal top structure of boss, underboss, consigliere. There was no secret elite, or "men behind the throne" calling the shots. People want to believe this probably because Cafaro´s false testimony and that´s how the myth started.

The myth says Lombardo secretly ran the Genovese Family. But he suffered a MAJOR stroke in 1975 which incapacitated him for years. He wasn´t capable of running his own crew even. How would he have been capable of running the large Genovese Family in that bad condition? Funzi Tieri was the official boss until he was taken down sometime in November 1980. Eli Zeccardi was the official undeboss until he was killed in 1977. Ardito was the official consigliere atleast until 1977.

Dawlin, click the link below and you´ll find snippets of reports posted by me, describing the top Genovese hierarchy in around 1980-1981.

viewtopic.php?f=29&t=1990&hilit=manna&start=40

Manna was made consigliere in 1981, after Gigante was made boss.

There's a redacted part next to Salerno, so I'm assuming the CI further explained this and possibly named the person Salerno took over from, or maybe who was going to be replacing him.

Probably Sally "Young" Palmieri. His name is always redacted in FBI files. They haven´t figured out if Palmieri is dead or still alive. Salerno was imprisoned in 1978 so Palmieri probably acted for him.

[Hailbritain]

HK has refused for years to believe benny squint was the power behind the throne for years ha ha , his debates with PB were the stuff of legend ha

[Angelo Santino]

I've always been dubious about this Front Boss System myself. Putting aside the question of who would want such a position, the mob has never been structured to function in that way.

[Dwalin2014]

Sorry, an off-topic question: since Eli Zeccardi's murder has been mentioned above, which theory about his death in your opinion is correct? That Mickey Spillane killed him during a botched kidnapping or did Tieri kill him and blame Spillane to avoid blame himself and to have another excuse to get violent with the Irish who didn't want to give up the territory?

[Lupara]

I tend to agree with HK concerning this matter. All this secret boss stuff and only a handful of people knowing sounds way too complicated to me. It does make a nice story and interesting debate though.

[Hailbritain]

I tend to believe Lombardo was boss and calling the shots

[Wiseguy]

I tend to believe Lombardo was boss and calling the shots

So does the FBI, Justice Department, bunch of former prosecutors, as well as mob journalists/historians like Capeci, Raab, etc.

[Clark]

Sorry, an off-topic question: since Eli Zeccardi's murder has been mentioned above, which theory about his death in your opinion is correct? That Mickey Spillane killed him during a botched kidnapping or did Tieri kill him and blame Spillane to avoid blame himself and to have another excuse to get violent with the Irish who didn't want to give up the territory?

Sorry in advance for the long post. I have done a lot of research on this and I am almost 100% certain that Spillane had nothing to do with the Zeccardi’s disappearance. There is also really no concrete evidence of any other high-level kidnappings perpetrated by members of Spillane’s group.

I think the murders of Thomas Devaney, Edward Cummiskey, Thomas Kapatos, and Mickey Spillane get too easily lumped together. Devaney and Cummiskey were killed two months apart in the summer of 1976 on the orders of George Barone, with sanctioning by Salerno (which Barone confirms in his 302s). Barone had been a one-time friend of Devaney’s in the mid-1950s and he knew Cummiskey well too. Barone, Douglas Rago, and James Vanderwyde had control over certain concessions at the old New York Coliseum. By the 1960s, the three had already moved to Florida and were operating ILA Local 1922, but John Sullivan was left to be their point man in New York.

Both Cummiskey and Devaney were interfering with their operations at the old Coliseum and Barone was worried about being cut out of the Javits (as at that time it appeared that the Coliseum would be closing due to the construction of the upcoming Javits). Joseph Sullivan committed the murders with the assistance of John Sullivan (whom he had met when the two served time together). The Genovese maintained control over a portion of the Javits, and John Sullivan would remain heavily involved (even receiving false benefits well into the early 1990s after he had retired to Florida).

Kapatos was murdered half a year later (again by Joseph Sullivan with the assistance of John Sullivan). He was close with Cummiskey and Devaney, which I am sure didn’t help his case, but what triggered his murder was that he was attempting to shake-down waterfront officials. The contract was given to Barone's group as the West Side of Manhattan was part of their territory.

Zeccardi disappeared in April 1977, which is almost a whole year after the murders of some of the main players in Hell’s Kitchen. Mickey Spillane was murdered a month after Zeccardi’s disappearance, but we know that he had been laying low in Queens for months before and that he was not killed by the Genovese. My theory is that everyone knew about the Genovese hit parade on people associated with the Irish group, and with things like the Manny Gambino kidnapping occurring during the 1970s, it was an easy blame if Tieri wanted perform a sneak hit.

People just assume that the succession on the West Side went from Hughie Mulligan, to Mickey Spillane, to Jimmy Coonan, but it was actually much more complicated as there were many different small groups operating. Also, George Barone was still a huge power on the West Side of Manhattan but did not receive as much attention since he was residing in Florida.

[B.]

There is a report I've seen from the mid- or late-1970s that describes Gigante as being in charge of rule enforcement, particularly with regards to drugs. Obviously that's not an official position, but his informal rank in the hierarchy before the 1980s always stirs my imagination. His path from being young drug trafficker and gofer for Vito Genovese in the 50s/60s to being one of the most respected and circumspect upcoming leaders in the 1970s is fascinating...

There is also Fratianno's testimony which points to Gigante having a role in top-level decisions by 1976:

The government proffered that Fratianno would testify, as he had in a previous trial, that in 1976 he attended a meeting in a back room of a store in which members of Genovese Family including Salerno were present. Those assembled decided to murder John Spencer Ullo, a person engaged in loansharking for the Genovese Family. There was a vote taken and, Fratianno testified that "Gigante said `I vote to hit,' Tieri said `Hit,' Salerno said `Hit,' and it went around the table in a unanimous fashion."

Any time HK posts about the Genovese family I learn something and his take is very valuable. I take all theories into consideration and don't really know what I believe about this family, honestly. I do believe that even if they did have a strict traditional hierarchy where Tieri was the official boss, that they still used more of a "round table" approach to administrative matters.

EDIT: It also seems like they took advice from elder/semi-retired members more than other families typically did. Figures like Catena, Lombardo, and others seem to have been consulted on matters even after taking a step back. I don't know of other families except Chicago who actively did this.

[Antiliar]

What I recall about Eli Zeccardi is that he owed Carlo Gambino money and apparently showed him disrespect. Gambino contacted the then boss of the Genovese and it was considered a serious breach in protocol, which they took seriously. For all of the above he was killed.

Just to note, this is what I read and I cannot vouch for its accuracy. Others may have better info.

[HairyKnuckles]

EDIT: It also seems like they took advice from elder/semi-retired members more than other families typically did. Figures like Catena, Lombardo, and others seem to have been consulted on matters even after taking a step back. I don't know of other families except Chicago who actively did this.

That may very well be true. Elder members or members who held vast power were consulted at times for the sake of unity of the Family. But that is not the same as claiming that somebody behind the scenes is calling the shots and uses a front boss to fool LE and other members.

Consider this: If this man behind the scenes want something done, he would go the the front boss. But what if the front boss says no. "We can´t do it". Then the man behind the scenes is powerless. He would need to go to someone else down the ladder and explain the situation. Now, the one down the ladder would know that the guy is the real boss and the front boss is just a figure head. And by the way these guys are yapping, soon enough, multiple people would know who´s really calling the shots. Then what´s the freaking point of being a man behind the scences if multiple members of the Family know what the situation is?

The were dozens of informants (and many of them directly linked to the Genoveses and some of them surely members) who secretly gave the feds information. None of them talked about Lombardo being a secret boss, using Tieri as a front. None of that can be found in Lombardo´s files or Tieri´s files. With all these informants ratting, it would have been there in their files, if that was the case. It´s amazing that only Cafaro "knew" that Lombardo was using Tieri as a front. Statistically speaking, that doesn´t make sense.

These guys aren´t dummies. And to claim that a major Family used front bosses is to ridicule their intelligence.

[Dwalin2014]

What I recall about Eli Zeccardi is that he owed Carlo Gambino money and apparently showed him disrespect. Gambino contacted the then boss of the Genovese and it was considered a serious breach in protocol, which they took seriously. For all of the above he was killed.

Just to note, this is what I read and I cannot vouch for its accuracy. Others may have better info.

Gambino was a charistmatic criminal from a "fans of evil characters" point of view, but he was a real motherf#$ker to be honest imo....Didn't respect other families at all and put his long nose into others' business all the time: whacked Joe Colombo who was another family's boss (although not 100% it was him, but possible); whacked Mimi Scialo who wasn't a Gambino member either; he was a violent scumbag, ok, but the reason for killing him was stupid: a couple of drunken insults and laughing at his hat; now this, Zeccardi's killing was his doing too and again, Zeccardi was the n.2 of ANOTHER family. And maybe other such cases, don't have them in mind right now...

It would have been so much better if Bonanno succeeded in his failed plan to whack Gambino, Lucchese, Magaddino and all those others who at the end were never harmed neither by law enforcement nor by mafia rivals. Would have been an interesting turn of events, seriously, like in the movie from the 70s called "The stone killer" about an alternative mafia history, where the conservative Sicilian mafia groups in America take revenge on the former Luciano allies for taking over from the Moustache Petes in 1931 etc (although that film incorrectly takes for granted the legend that Luciano had killed a big number of old bosses at the same time as Maranzano).

[Angelo Santino]

EDIT: It also seems like they took advice from elder/semi-retired members more than other families typically did. Figures like Catena, Lombardo, and others seem to have been consulted on matters even after taking a step back. I don't know of other families except Chicago who actively did this.

That may very well be true. Elder members or members who held vast power were consulted at times for the sake of unity of the Family. But that is not the same as claiming that somebody behind the scenes is calling the shots and uses a front boss to fool LE and other members.

Consider this: If this man behind the scenes want something done, he would go the the front boss. But what if the front boss says no. "We can´t do it". Then the man behind the scenes is powerless. He would need to go to someone else down the ladder and explain the situation. Now, the one down the ladder would know that the guy is the real boss and the front boss is just a figure head. And by the way these guys are yapping, soon enough, multiple people would know who´s really calling the shots. Then what´s the freaking point of being a man behind the scences if multiple members of the Family know what the situation is?

The were dozens of informants (and many of them directly linked to the Genoveses and some of them surely members) who secretly gave the feds information. None of them talked about Lombardo being a secret boss, using Tieri as a front. None of that can be found in Lombardo´s files or Tieri´s files. With all these informants ratting, it would have been there in their files, if that was the case. It´s amazing that only Cafaro "knew" that Lombardo was using Tieri as a front. Statistically speaking, that doesn´t make sense.

These guys aren´t dummies. And to claim that a major Family used front bosses is to ridicule their intelligence.

So what, in your opinion, is the administrative succession following Catena, Eboli and Miranda?

[SonnyBlackstein]

Consider this: If this man behind the scenes want something done, he would go the the front boss. But what if the front boss says no. "We can´t do it". Then the man behind the scenes is powerless. He would need to go to someone else down the ladder and explain the situation. Now, the one down the ladder would know that the guy is the real boss and the front boss is just a figure head. And by the way these guys are yapping, soon enough, multiple people would know who´s really calling the shots. Then what´s the freaking point of being a man behind the scences if multiple members of the Family know what the situation is?

HK, you're smarter than this.

The objective of a front boss is to keep LE, other families and your own rank and file in the dark.
Keeping your administration and potentially even your Capos in on the play is perfectly workable, understandable and sensible.

Lombardo stepping back and using Tieri, Gigante using Salerno. That this would be kept from other families or the rank n file is ridiculous? Or wouldn't work because Lombardo would have to go to a capo in your weird example, not his own administration? Even though either scenario is actually perfectly fine?

It's a smart and likely play. And you're in the minority in thinking it didn't happen. Remember when looking for CI/informant confirmation, these are the guys specifically designed to be misinformed.

And the argument that why would anyone take a fall job is false as well. Salerno didn't know about the commission case coming and the 100 years.
And this is Cosa Nostra. Not a democracy. You do what you're told.
When a soldier is told to hit his best friend, does he decide he doesn't want to do it? No, you do what you're told.
So the whole argument of 'who would want the job' is not appropriate for a dictatorial society.

In summation, to maintain a front boss, the scenario of keeping the administration and/or the Capos involved is in preserving the point of the exercise and easily workable.

So your example above fails given more than superficial thought.

[Pete]

I tend to believe Lombardo was boss and calling the shots

So does the FBI, Justice Department, bunch of former prosecutors, as well as mob journalists/historians like Capeci, Raab, etc.

The FBI and justice department is a weak argument being they were the ones who said fat tony was the boss for years after convicting him in the commission case. Those guys will say anything to advance their agenda of the day