Umberto Valenti

[willychichi]

Can any of you guys shed some light on the rackets that Valenti was involved in, the murders he carried out at D'Aquila's request, and who killed Valenti, was it in fact Luciano? Thanks

[HairyKnuckles]

In 1913, an Umberto Valenti was caught red handed when he was trying to set a grocery store on fire. The proprietor of the store claimed that he had previously received letters from the black hand demanding money. This Umberto Valenti said that he lived on East 15th Street which is close enough to "our" Valenti´s home residence (East 12th Street). If it is the same guy, this would suggest that Valenti started out as a black hander or at least a hired gun for some black handers. Later, around the time of his murder in 1922, Umberto Valenti was described as belonging to a group of gamblers and bootleggers who were located on the Lower East Side.

Who can say for sure if Luciano was the one who killed Valenti? There was only one arrest in that hit and that was Masseria himself. But nothing came out of that. One way to find out I guess is to find out the original source. Was it an article or did it come from the Luciano book?

EDIT - Also Charles Dongarra (later identified as a Gambino captain) was arrested in the Valenti murder case. It´s interesing that Joseph Biondo (who hailed from that same gamblers and bootlegger group as did Dongarra) were both very close friends of Luciano.

[willychichi]

In 1913, an Umberto Valenti was caught red handed when he was trying to set a grocery store on fire. The proprietor of the store claimed that he had previously received letters from the black hand demanding money. This Umberto Valenti said that he lived on East 15th Street which is close enough to "our" Valenti´s home residence (East 12th Street). If it is the same guy, this would suggest that Valenti started out as a black hander or at least a hired gun for some black handers. Later, around the time of his murder in 1922, Umberto Valenti was described as belonging to a group of gamblers and bootleggers who were located on the Lower East Side.

Who can say for sure if Luciano was the one who killed Valenti? There was only one arrest in that hit and that was Masseria himself. But nothing came out of that. One way to find out I guess is to find out the original source. Was it an article or did it come from the Luciano book?

EDIT - Also Charles Dongarra (later identified as a Gambino captain) was arrested in the Valenti murder case. It´s interesing that Joseph Biondo (who hailed from that same gamblers and bootlegger group as did Dongarra) were both very close friends of Luciano.

Thank you HK. It seems from the little bit of information I have been able to find Valenti returned to Sicily for a period of time in 1921-22, around the same time as the murder of Terranova, but I haven't been able to find much about what he did in Sicily or the circumstances around his return to the States.

[Antiliar]

Nick Gentile said that Valenti returned to Sicily because D'Aquila put a death sentence on him. He, along with Giuseppe Morello, Ignazio Lupo, Ciro Terranova, and several others went to Sicily to get support for the same reason: Toto D'Aquila sentenced all of them to death. Gentile says they met with him in Sicily, but his chronology is off and must have met with them in New York. One person they likely did meet with was Salvatore Maranzano, who was then the provincial boss of the Trapani province and resided in Palermo. Maranzano didn't give them the support they wanted. They probably met with other top Mafiosi as well. Meanwhile, Gentile traveled across the United States trying to get support from other bosses, but wasn't finding success. Eventually D'Aquila agreed to drop the death sentence if he'd kill Masseria.

Regarding Luciano being Valenti's shooter, I actually think that there's a good possibility that he was. There's no way of knowing for sure, but the description of the shooter fit him and the rumor stating that it was him makes it at least very possible.

[willychichi]

Nick Gentile said that Valenti returned to Sicily because D'Aquila put a death sentence on him. He, along with Giuseppe Morello, Ignazio Lupo, Ciro Terranova, and several others went to Sicily to get support for the same reason: Toto D'Aquila sentenced all of them to death. Gentile says they met with him in Sicily, but his chronology is off and must have met with them in New York. One person they likely did meet with was Salvatore Maranzano, who was then the provincial boss of the Trapani province and resided in Palermo. Maranzano didn't give them the support they wanted. They probably met with other top Mafiosi as well. Meanwhile, Gentile traveled across the United States trying to get support from other bosses, but wasn't finding success. Eventually D'Aquila agreed to drop the death sentence if he'd kill Masseria.

Regarding Luciano being Valenti's shooter, I actually think that there's a good possibility that he was. There's no way of knowing for sure, but the description of the shooter fit him and the rumor stating that it was him makes it at least very possible.

Thanks for the info Antiliar, the limited information available does appear to point to Luciano as the killer. Interesting that D'Aquila would rescind his death sentence and then Valenti was killed two days after his failed attempt on Masseria.

[willychichi]

Do you guys know what ties if any Valenti had to Ribera or New Orleans, his name popped up when I was searching those two areas?

[Antiliar]

Do you guys know what ties if any Valenti had to Ribera or New Orleans, his name popped up when I was searching those two areas?

I'm not aware that he had any connections with those places. He was from Barcellona in Messina, Sicily. Not many Mafiosi came from eastern Sicily.

[SonnyBlackstein]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0kqyev46qyI

[HairyKnuckles]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0kqyev46qyI

Lol! I love that show!

Interesting is that Joe Biondo and possibly others from that group/crew originally came from that place.

[willychichi]

Thanks guys, much appreciated.

[B.]

Luciano's early ties with the Gambinos are very interesting to me. I wonder what it was that put him in with the Masseria group. His involvement in the street would have predated the Masseria family by at least a few years.

[Antiliar]

Masseria made him an offer he couldn't refuse...because it was such a good deal. LOL

The only thing that makes sense is economics. Being with Masseria offered him more opportunities than being with D'Aquila. We don't know if D'Aquila offered to make him, but obviously Masseria did. A prostitute recalled seeing Luciano early in his career and he looked poor. Several years later, around 1923, she saw him again at a party and noticed that he was dressed much better. Masseria may have been at the same party. I don't recall, but the story is in Hickman Powell's book on Luciano.

[B.]

Masseria made him an offer he couldn't refuse...because it was such a good deal. LOL

The only thing that makes sense is economics. Being with Masseria offered him more opportunities than being with D'Aquila. We don't know if D'Aquila offered to make him, but obviously Masseria did. A prostitute recalled seeing Luciano early in his career and he looked poor. Several years later, around 1923, she saw him again at a party and noticed that he was dressed much better. Masseria may have been at the same party. I don't recall, but the story is in Hickman Powell's book on Luciano.

As an expert in the old days, do you think the way guys were "on record" or "with" someone was at all different back then? Guys who would get connected to a family through direct relations or same hometown cemented the family they would be with, but it seems possible that guys who got connected simply by living in a mob neighborhood might have had a little more freedom than they would later on. That's why Luciano and guys like him stand out, as you'd think if he was originally with D'Aquila's family he couldn't just be like "Hey, Masseria offered me a higher salary and promotion, seeya!" because that's the system as we know it post-1930s.

Once a guy is on record we know it can be a painstaking if not impossible process to get him released, but I don't know if it was always that way for guys who got connected to the mob on a circumstantial basis, especially if there were chaotic external circumstances. We know Valachi, who as a neighborhood criminal wasn't much different from Luciano in terms of how he got connected, was allowed to choose between three different families after the Castellammarese war. It's unlikely if not impossible that a guy like Carlo Gambino or Joe Bonanno would have been given that choice considering their blood and hometown connections to their respective families. But because Valachi was just some knockaround guy without those deep ties, circumstances allowed him to go elsewhere.

With all of the chaos of early prohibition and the disputes going on in the NYC mafia in the early 1920s, maybe Luciano was in a situation similar to what Valachi would later be in a decade later.

[Antiliar]

As an expert in the old days, do you think the way guys were "on record" or "with" someone was at all different back then? Guys who would get connected to a family through direct relations or same hometown cemented the family they would be with, but it seems possible that guys who got connected simply by living in a mob neighborhood might have had a little more freedom than they would later on. That's why Luciano and guys like him stand out, as you'd think if he was originally with D'Aquila's family he couldn't just be like "Hey, Masseria offered me a higher salary and promotion, seeya!" because that's the system as we know it post-1930s.

Once a guy is on record we know it can be a painstaking if not impossible process to get him released, but I don't know if it was always that way for guys who got connected to the mob on a circumstantial basis, especially if there were chaotic external circumstances. We know Valachi, who as a neighborhood criminal wasn't much different from Luciano in terms of how he got connected, was allowed to choose between three different families after the Castellammarese war. It's unlikely if not impossible that a guy like Carlo Gambino or Joe Bonanno would have been given that choice considering their blood and hometown connections to their respective families. But because Valachi was just some knockaround guy without those deep ties, circumstances allowed him to go elsewhere.

With all of the chaos of early prohibition and the disputes going on in the NYC mafia in the early 1920s, maybe Luciano was in a situation similar to what Valachi would later be in a decade later.

Guys could be "on the record" with one Family and end up with another. Sammy Gravano was associated with the Colombos then got picked up by the Gambinos, and Joe Pistone was "on record" with the Colombos too, but he ended up with the Bonannos. So I think it's fluid. I can't say how long it was like that, but I would guess that shortly after there were multiple Families in New York would be a good starting point, so possibly as early as the 1890s.

In Luciano's case, he was made during the period that Masseria/Morello were looking to increase their membership as protection against D'Aquila, who didn't recognize them. Since they weren't recognized they could be flexible with the rules and offer incentives to go with them. For example, we know that they made certain people with large gangs captains instead of having to start from the bottom. They could have done the same with Luciano. I believe he did this with Frankie Yale too, and probably Vito Genovese. Frank Costello was already a millionaire, so he could have been another example. It explains how the Masseria/Morello Family got to be the second largest borgata in such a short period of time. Especially considering that Reina split off (or they split off, depending on how you look at it) in this period, which could have been devastating.

Something else to consider is that Luciano's hometown of Lercara was connected to Corleone. Lercara was an important mining town and I believe that some of those mines were owned or controlled by people from Corleone. It's possible this could have accounted for something.

[B.]

I know about guys being "on record" and transferring around, but I'm wondering more if the process for being "on record" was at all different in the early days. Did Valachi ever mention being put on record as an associate with anyone in the Lucchese family before the war? When Joe Bonanno was the victim of an attempted extortion as an associate, he specifically avoided telling them he was on record with Schiro so that he could give them a scare, but I also don't know that Bonanno would have needed to be formally put on record in the same was as a guy like Valachi, as Bonanno was born to be with that group. What I do wonder about Bonanno is if he was officially placed on record with Maranzano or an individual at any point, or if it was just sort of "You're with us."

Very interesting about the Lercara Friddi and Corleone connections. Despite being maybe the most infamous and visible mafia leaders to ever live, Luciano is one of the greatest enigmas to me.