Top Mafia Misconceptions

[JCB1977]

15) They're all rats now. In fact, only a proportionately tiny minority of made guys cooperate with the government.

That's a big one.

Cooperation to me is pleading guilty to the crimes charged. Especially if there is a proffer. Informing and cooperating are two different things. Having said that, the percentage "skyrockets."

[Pogo The Clown]

6) Mob guys walk around in fancy suits all day long

Most did in the old days

I think that was just the style of the old days rather than a mob thing. Most men wore suits back then.


Pogo

[JCB1977]

Also what you said about tracking guys down to kill them -- how many rats have actually been killed, especially after testifying and leaving the area? Very few.

Only one I can think of off the top of my head that was actively hunted down after leaving the area was Barboza. There might be others, but I can't recall any. This almost never happens, and now they aren't even killing the ones who stick around it seems.

Peter Gotti was convicted of planning the assasination of Sammy the Bull. They actually had Gambino members in Arizona hunting him down...but being the baffoon that Peter Gotti is, it never happened.

[SonnyBlackstein]

Cooperation to me is pleading guilty to the crimes charged.

What?
Pleading guilt is cooperating?

So Gigante was a cooperator by your definition? Bellamo's a cooperator? They've both pleaded guilty to charges. So they're cooperators?

Sure you want to run with that?

[phatmatress777]

Cooperation to me is pleading guilty to the crimes charged.

What?
Pleading guilt is cooperating?

So Gigante was a cooperator by your definition? Bellamo's a cooperator? They've both pleaded guilty to charges. So they're cooperators?

Sure you want to run with that?

I agree in no way shape or form is that cooperating.


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[AG777]

Cooperation to me is pleading guilty to the crimes charged.

What?
Pleading guilt is cooperating?

So Gigante was a cooperator by your definition? Bellamo's a cooperator? They've both pleaded guilty to charges. So they're cooperators?

Sure you want to run with that?

I agree in no way shape or form is that cooperating.


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Years ago that would be considered cooperating. But nowadays, with RICO and stiff sentences, pleading guilty is the only smart thing to do. (Of course, not getting caught in the first place would have been smarter)

[phatmatress777]

Cooperation to me is pleading guilty to the crimes charged.

What?
Pleading guilt is cooperating?

So Gigante was a cooperator by your definition? Bellamo's a cooperator? They've both pleaded guilty to charges. So they're cooperators?

Sure you want to run with that?

I agree in no way shape or form is that cooperating.


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Years ago that would be considered cooperating. But nowadays, with RICO and stiff sentences, pleading guilty is the only smart thing to do. (Of course, not getting caught in the first place would have been smarter)

Yes in the olden days before the cat was out the bag so to speak then yes but after the mid to late 80s the Mafia was no longer the secret it had once been. I'll bet gene gotti and those young black kids that listened to gotti in the can wish they would have taken pleas.


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[Stroccos]

Cooperation to me is pleading guilty to the crimes charged.

What?
Pleading guilt is cooperating?

So Gigante was a cooperator by your definition? Bellamo's a cooperator? They've both pleaded guilty to charges. So they're cooperators?

Sure you want to run with that?

allocution is a rat move , proffer session is a rat move

[SonnyBlackstein]

Allocution or proffer is only with a plea.

Simply pleading guilty to charges is something different.

[Angelo Santino]

You have examples of both happening. John Gotti refused to let Joe Armone take a please whereas the Genovese have plead out for years.

[JCB1977]

Cooperation to me is pleading guilty to the crimes charged.

What?
Pleading guilt is cooperating?

So Gigante was a cooperator by your definition? Bellamo's a cooperator? They've both pleaded guilty to charges. So they're cooperators?

Sure you want to run with that?

I'm saying one could make a plausible argument that acknowledging that you are a part of the Genovese Crime Family and committed crimes for the benefit of a criminal organization could be technically viewed as cooperating....NOT informing. But a member who does that is ACKNOWLEDGING with LE that such a criminal organization in fact exists. If my memory serves me correct, Gotti banned his family from a plea deal.

[B.]

There are also different types of pleas. In some cases they ask that the defendant only admit to the specific crime(s) he was charged with, while other pleas ask that they also admit the organization/family they are part of. I can see why some members of a criminal secret society would see the latter as a form of ratting, but with how well-known the mafia has become and the practicality of taking a deal for shorter time, it was inevitable that they would all eventually accept it.

I think it was Robert Lino (?) who took a plea deal where he had to admit to being a member of the Bonanno family, but when he pled out he admitted to being part of the organization but said something like "Nobody ever told me I was a member of the Bonanno family" which caused a bunch of controversy in the court.

[Doobeez]

Yes...but in some situations, it's insisted you take the deal or..end up like Larry Ricci..

Trunk Music.jpg

[JCB1977]

There are also different types of pleas. In some cases they ask that the defendant only admit to the specific crime(s) he was charged with, while other pleas ask that they also admit the organization/family they are part of. I can see why some members of a criminal secret society would see the latter as a form of ratting, but with how well-known the mafia has become and the practicality of taking a deal for shorter time, it was inevitable that they would all eventually accept it.

I think it was Robert Lino (?) who took a plea deal where he had to admit to being a member of the Bonanno family, but when he pled out he admitted to being part of the organization but said something like "Nobody ever told me I was a member of the Bonanno family" which caused a bunch of controversy in the court.

I agree with everything you're saying...but when one takes a Mafia oath today, were the traditions and foundation of the organization omitted for a newer member. Admitting that the organization even existed was a death penalty for some Mafia clans. And today, it's almost expected that you plea out a case for less time, especially having to do a proffer. The standards sound much more liberal than earlier times. Sure, the penalties are stiffer today...but making the rules up as you go isn't right either, no? I get it, it's a waning organization as a whole and not nearly the powerhouse that they once were...end times, huh?

[JCB1977]

Yes...but in some situations, it's insisted you take the deal or..end up like Larry Ricci..

Trunk Music.jpg

I agree...