Clueless Valachi and the Gaglianos

[B.]

The one thing that stands out most to me about Joe Valachi is how clueless he was about the politics of the life he was involved in.

He was a young non-Sicilian when he first got involved and had no family ties to any of the organizations, so it's understandable that he would have been clueless early on, but still, one of the qualities that "successful" mobsters have is their intuition and understanding of the landscape. Valachi grew up around Reina/Gagliano people, was recruited by Reina/Gagliano people, and married Tom Reina's daughter. Yet he chose to stay with Maranzano even when, according to Valachi, Tommy Lucchese questioned him and told him they'd transfer him back to the Gagliano fold.

Then when Maranzano was killed, it was Gagliano members who saved Valachi's life and looked out for him in the aftermath. Yet he still took the blind suggestion of going under Luciano/Genovese because he believed it would help him save face. He continued to have direct access to Tommy Lucchese, the number two of the Gagliano family, and along with his brother-in-law being a Gagliano member, he had extensive ties to that group. After he beat up those Gagliano associates, he said that Lucchese and their people treated him differently, yet he remained friendly with Lucchese even in the aftermath.

What I take from this is that Valachi was incredibly naive or simply stupid about the life he was involved with, but it's also amazing he survived up until the point that he began informing for the FBN and eventually full-on testified. He seems to have been shrewd when it came to his own survival, but the complete opposite when it came to the politics of the mob.

[Angelo Santino]

The Genovese and Lucchese Families shared territory and up until the 70's the FBI had problems figuring out which members belonged to what group in Harlem and the Bronx.

[B.]

The Genovese and Lucchese Families shared territory and up until the 70's the FBI had problems figuring out which members belonged to what group in Harlem and the Bronx.

Yeah, true about East Harlem, but it was the Gagliano/Lucchese guys who Valachi initially came up with.

[Cheech]

Question. I've seen an old Genovese chart recently and it listed carmine Persicos jr as a button. Was he connected to Genovese at one time? Or was this a Valachi mistake. The chart has stars net to certain people that Valachi identified

Thanks I'll hang up and listen

Cheech

[rayray]

This might be an impossible situation to figure out, one would almost have to be there and actually talk to the guy or people involved in why certain decisions were made. I'm sure it wasn't like Cargo talking to himself and saying, "Self, who should I align with?" He must have been talking to someone about whatever that influenced his decision making. Whatever happened and why sure did lead him down the path he ended up with, getting involved with drugs, Genovese jail fiasco ect ect ect.

[HairyKnuckles]

Question. I've seen an old Genovese chart recently and it listed carmine Persicos jr as a button. Was he connected to Genovese at one time? Or was this a Valachi mistake. The chart has stars net to certain people that Valachi identified

Thanks I'll hang up and listen

Cheech

Probably a mistake from Valachi´s part. Could also be that he (or whoever it was who identified Persico) really meant his father, Persico Sr. There are some errors on those charts but nevertheless, they are extremely interesting and first of its kind.

[Cheech]

Thanks HK. Appreciate it bud. Yes. Old chart. Chart.had a lot of people on it. All pictures too. To anthony salernos. Different nicknames. Funzi was low on the list. Actually at the very bottom. A lot lf Irish nicknames like Ryan. Thought that was funny.

[Antiliar]

Question. I've seen an old Genovese chart recently and it listed carmine Persicos jr as a button. Was he connected to Genovese at one time? Or was this a Valachi mistake. The chart has stars net to certain people that Valachi identified

Thanks I'll hang up and listen

Cheech

Probably a mistake from Valachi´s part. Could also be that he (or whoever it was who identified Persico) really meant his father, Persico Sr. There are some errors on those charts but nevertheless, they are extremely interesting and first of its kind.

It was a mistake by the Justice Department. They used many informants for info and got some of it wrong, but because the charts were used during the McClellan Hearings where Valachi testified they are associated with him.

[willychichi]

Valachi The rat who started it all

Joseph Valachi took few secrets to his grave.

The infamous mob rat unloaded years before his death in 1971, when a mysterious Niagara Falls mistress had his body shipped from a Texas federal prison for burial in Gate of Heaven Cemetery near the Lewiston-Queenston Bridge. Valachi did keep one secret until he died. Disowned by his wife and son, both of whom were in the federal witness protection program, Valachi's will named Marie Jackson, a divorcee from Niagara Falls, executor of his estate. Valachi left everything he had to Jackson, even going so far as to list her mother as the secondary beneficiary.

The development bewildered Western New Yorkers and Mafia experts across the country when Niagara County Surrogate Court records revealed her name in 1971. Who was Marie Jackson? What did she know? How did a mobster from East Harlem strike up a relationship with a woman in Niagara Falls? Jackson purchased side-by-side burial plots for herself and Valachi. She at first declined to mark Valachi's grave, nestled against a chapel walkway, out of fear it would be desecrated. She joined him in 1999.


Read More: http://www.buffalonews.com/The_rat_who_ ... _1963.html

[Lupara]

^^^ Great article, thanks for posting.

[Ed]

Question. I've seen an old Genovese chart recently and it listed carmine Persicos jr as a button. Was he connected to Genovese at one time? Or was this a Valachi mistake. The chart has stars net to certain people that Valachi identified

Thanks I'll hang up and listen

Cheech

Probably a mistake from Valachi´s part. Could also be that he (or whoever it was who identified Persico) really meant his father, Persico Sr. There are some errors on those charts but nevertheless, they are extremely interesting and first of its kind.

It was a mistake by the Justice Department. They used many informants for info and got some of it wrong, but because the charts were used during the McClellan Hearings where Valachi testified they are associated with him.

Between 1962 and 1963, informants Gregory Scarpa, Alfredo Sanantonio and (likely) Larry Gallo all told the FBI that Carmine Persico was a member of the Colombo Crime Family. (I don’t have the chart in front of me but I don’t think Valachi identified him as a Genovese member.)

But sometime before the Valachi Hearings, an unidentified source told the FBI that Persico had transferred to the Genovese or Gambino Crime Family.(Presumably, collateral damage over the Gallo-Profaci War) So for whatever reason, the FBI decided to go with that (bad) Intel and list Persico as a Genovese member.

The unidentified source could have been a listening device. The FBI may have simply misinterpreted what they heard, or maybe a transfer was considered before the idea was eventually dropped. (The Scarpa files might clarify). If the Intel came from a listening device, it could be the Patriarca bug since he was meddling in the Colombo Crime Family at that time. Nonetheless, it does seem odd the FBI would disregard Intel from three member-informants.

As for Valachi, I agree he should have gone with the Lucchese Crime Family when given the choice. They probably would have looked out for him but perhaps the ball-busting he would have had to endure from his in-laws would have been too much. The history of mental illness in his family may have also helped to cloud his judgment throughout his life.

[B.]

Question. I've seen an old Genovese chart recently and it listed carmine Persicos jr as a button. Was he connected to Genovese at one time? Or was this a Valachi mistake. The chart has stars net to certain people that Valachi identified

Thanks I'll hang up and listen

Cheech

Probably a mistake from Valachi´s part. Could also be that he (or whoever it was who identified Persico) really meant his father, Persico Sr. There are some errors on those charts but nevertheless, they are extremely interesting and first of its kind.

It was a mistake by the Justice Department. They used many informants for info and got some of it wrong, but because the charts were used during the McClellan Hearings where Valachi testified they are associated with him.

Between 1962 and 1963, informants Gregory Scarpa, Alfredo Sanantonio and (likely) Larry Gallo all told the FBI that Carmine Persico was a member of the Colombo Crime Family. (I don’t have the chart in front of me but I don’t think Valachi identified him as a Genovese member.)

But sometime before the Valachi Hearings, an unidentified source told the FBI that Persico had transferred to the Genovese or Gambino Crime Family.(Presumably, collateral damage over the Gallo-Profaci War) So for whatever reason, the FBI decided to go with that (bad) Intel and list Persico as a Genovese member.

The unidentified source could have been a listening device. The FBI may have simply misinterpreted what they heard, or maybe a transfer was considered before the idea was eventually dropped. (The Scarpa files might clarify). If the Intel came from a listening device, it could be the Patriarca bug since he was meddling in the Colombo Crime Family at that time. Nonetheless, it does seem odd the FBI would disregard Intel from three member-informants.

As for Valachi, I agree he should have gone with the Lucchese Crime Family when given the choice. They probably would have looked out for him but perhaps the ball-busting he would have had to endure from his in-laws would have been too much. The history of mental illness in his family may have also helped to cloud his judgment throughout his life.

Good point about the mental illness. He definitely could have been somewhere on the spectrum. It's pretty terrible, but I can't help but laugh about him saying that the only thing he ever got for Christmas as a kid was his dad waking him up and offering him a glass of whiskey.

Do you have more info on Larry Gallo possibly being an informant? Wouldn't surprise me at all but this is the first I've heard of it I think.

[Ed]

I think David C might have been the first to suggest Larry Gallo was an informant (of some kind).

Gallo may have buckled a little under the pressure, like Bill Bonanno during the Banana War. Perhaps Gallo thought he could gain some advantage from the FBI by sharing some Intel. I'm curious how far his cooperation went.

Here are a couple of examples:

http://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html ... 1&tab=page

http://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html ... 8&tab=page Gallo is t-27

[B.]

I think David C might have been the first to suggest Larry Gallo was an informant (of some kind).

Gallo may have buckled a little under the pressure, like Bill Bonanno during the Banana War. Perhaps Gallo thought he could gain some advantage from the FBI by sharing some Intel. I'm curious how far his cooperation went.

Here are a couple of examples:

http://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html ... 1&tab=page

http://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html ... 8&tab=page Gallo is t-27

Wow, even that little information he gave on the structure would certainly count as "ratting".

[Pogo The Clown]

Great find on Larry Gallo being an informant. We are constantly learning new stuff from these MF releases.


Pogo