Revisiting the Magaddino transcript - names

[Antiliar]

Seems "Angelino" from the Chicago meeting during the Castellammarese war might be Angelo Caruso. One translation said "Angelino" was representing Vincenzo Troia, but another translation and more context make it clear he was accusing Troia and trying to get Magaddino to join in on the accusations, which Magaddino refused. This was after Troia (as a member of the peace commission) prevented the others from voting for Masseria's death, which pissed off his ally Maranzano. At this time Angelo Caruso was a top aide to Maranzano and selected as his underboss, plus he is mentioned in context with these events, so seems possible he was in Chicago doing Maranzano's bidding behind the scenes.

Good analysis, B

[johnny_scootch]

So what this guy Aurello killed Rava ,never heard of that..very interasting..

Is it confirmed that Toddo Aurello and Toddo Avarello are one and the same?

[B.]

So what this guy Aurello killed Rava ,never heard of that..very interasting..

Is it confirmed that Toddo Aurello and Toddo Avarello are one and the same?

Same guy, yep.

I'm surprised Gravano never mentioned anything about Aurello/Avarello killing Armand Rava, though maybe he didn't know about it. Most of these guys didn't openly gossip about old murders. Seems like Avarello killing Rava may have solidified his position with the Carlo Gambino regime and would be a contributing reason why he was eventually promoted to captain of his own crew even though his cousin Failla was already a captain. Looks like Failla and Avarello were a couple of guys from the old Rava faction who could be trusted by the new leadership... someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but "coincidentally" I believe they were Sicilians whereas some of the others weren't.

[AlexfromSouth]

So what this guy Aurello killed Rava ,never heard of that..very interasting..

Is it confirmed that Toddo Aurello and Toddo Avarello are one and the same?

Same guy, yep.

I'm surprised Gravano never mentioned anything about Aurello/Avarello killing Armand Rava, though maybe he didn't know about it. Most of these guys didn't openly gossip about old murders. Seems like Avarello killing Rava may have solidified his position with the Carlo Gambino regime and would be a contributing reason why he was eventually promoted to captain of his own crew even though his cousin Failla was already a captain. Looks like Failla and Avarello were a couple of guys from the old Rava faction who could be trusted by the new leadership... someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but "coincidentally" I believe they were Sicilians whereas some of the others weren't.

Was Aurello from south Brooklyn like Rava or from bath beach/Bensonhurst?Any early history about him?

[B.]

"Lasaglie"
Someone, possible first name Frank, who ran into some kind of problem with the Commission that required Bonanno and/or Magaddino's help and whose life was spared (?). Magaddino says he told him that Bonanno was 400 or 500 miles from him, while Magaddino was 3000 miles away, so he should consult with Bonanno. This would indicate this guy was not on the east coast and probably somewhere near the west coast.

Looks like this may actually be Frank Bompensiero, who ran into issues with the new leadership in the LA family after his demotion/release from prison and apparently tried to transfer out of the LA family. It would make more sense than Desimone, as Desimone's problems were with Bonanno, so it wouldn't make sense for Magaddino to ask Bonanno to help mediate. We know that there was some kind of relationship between Bompensiero and Bonanno through Bonanno's west coast interests, so I'm going with Bomp.

[HairyKnuckles]

B. i found on hunts site, the american mafia..under dellacroce that rave was dead in 1958..maybe this can help with dates

Bronx, you may be right about Rava being the one who killed Roberts. In the FBN book, it says Rava´s "whereabouts unknown since 11-14-57". I took this as meaning that Rava was killed right after the Appalachin meeting. The statement is only half true. Rava did (with Salvatore Tornabe) turn himself in for questioning Nov 25th. I figure the statement was written down sometime in between those two dates. So with that in perspective, Rava could very well have been killed in late 1958.

Does anyone have access to NY Times old articles? Perhaps there is an article there saying when exactly Rava went missing?

B, if Rava was still alive in 1958, the "Dannarao" mentioned in the transcript could very well be Tommy Rava.

[Antiliar]

I looked thru the NY Times and other papers, and nothing is mentioned about Rava going missing until the story on the death of Carlo Gambino. Valachi says that Rava was killed after he killed Ribilotto on p 350 of the senate hearings, and on p 361 Ralph Salerno said that he wasn't reported missing so there was no report. He also said that his family buried him, so Rava's body must have been found at some point. On p 362 Salerno said Rava was last seen in Florida in 1959.

[bronx]

Thanks Hairy an old timer told me that factoid decades ago.., little todo and brown were with pete pumps..they both were from bath beach

[HairyKnuckles]

I looked thru the NY Times and other papers, and nothing is mentioned about Rava going missing until the story on the death of Carlo Gambino. Valachi says that Rava was killed after he killed Ribilotto on p 350 of the senate hearings, and on p 361 Ralph Salerno said that he wasn't reported missing so there was no report. He also said that his family buried him, so Rava's body must have been found at some point. On p 362 Salerno said Rava was last seen in Florida in 1959.

Thanks for trying Antiliar. With Valachi saying that, it seems now that there are more things pointing at Rava being killed after the Robilotto killing.

[Doug]

Here is the document that mentions Toddo killing Rava in Florida.

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.htm ... earch=rava

[B.]

There is a lot we still don't know about the different ways that loyalties split after the Anastasia killing. Like Valachi mentioning that Jerome Squillante went to the Commission and disparaged Anastasia after his death, which put him in a bad light. It's always been assumed that Squillante was killed for, among other reasons, his closeness to Anastasia (as well as the Joe Scalise murder and a garbage related dispute), so this was surprising to me.

I agree HK that it's most likely that "Dannarao" was Rava, especially if it's true that Rava was still alive in Florida as of late 1958 or 1959 (and we at least have two sources saying he was in Florida). The most confusing part to me is Magaddino saying that Dannarao ordered the killing of "his" underboss. You could interpret this to mean he was part of the earlier Scalise murder, but I get the feeling that half of the Gambino family tried to name its own administration (formal or informal) after the Anastasia murder.

We know that Dellacroce eventually made peace and was given some degree of autonomy as leader of the so-called "blue collar" faction, most of which can trace itself back to Anastasia's faction. With Carlo Gambino only being a provisional boss until 1960 and the large size of the Gambinos, it seems possible that half of the family had its own temporary administration (Commission approved or not) for a time until tensions settled down. This could explain how "Dannarao" ordered the killing "his" underboss. As Ed pointed out, it doesn't explicitly say the underboss was killed.

Would be good to know exactly what role Robilotto played in everything, especially given his reputation as a "nice guy". Looking at all of this again, it seems very possible that Robilotto tried to make peace with the other faction and was killed by Rava as a result.

[B.]

Can't remember if this doc came up earlier, but this informant thought that Robilotto was killed by Rava and Dellacroce for leaning toward the Gambino faction: https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.htm ... earch=Rava

[Ed]

Can't remember if this doc came up earlier, but this informant thought that Robilotto was killed by Rava and Dellacroce for leaning toward the Gambino faction: https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.htm ... earch=Rava

If this informant was Lombardozzi, as some of us speculate, he would be in a position to offer a well-informed guess.

(I suppose Lombardozzi would have been part of the Gambino faction against Rava?)

[Cheech]

Maybe people wont be so quick to judge what some posters hear. Bronx has always been a gentleman. Never cared if anyome believed him. Just stated what he thought to be true. He has identified countless people in pictures. There has been plenty of phonies over the years so i get the skepticism. Think how much reporters and rats get wrong. There is still a debate on Fish Cafaro and if he told the truth. Lets all take a step back and take it all with a grain of salt instead of judging one another. We all come here to discuss and learn. And this the best forum i have ever been too. B. HK. Atiliar. jD. Felice. Pogo. Chris christie. All top notch people. Throw in charaxters like phat and jcb and foh and my girl ag77 and you got a great place.

Rant over.

[Cheech]

There is a lot we still don't know about the different ways that loyalties split after the Anastasia killing. Like Valachi mentioning that Jerome Squillante went to the Commission and disparaged Anastasia after his death, which put him in a bad light. It's always been assumed that Squillante was killed for, among other reasons, his closeness to Anastasia (as well as the Joe Scalise murder and a garbage related dispute), so this was surprising to me.

I agree HK that it's most likely that "Dannarao" was Rava, especially if it's true that Rava was still alive in Florida as of late 1958 or 1959 (and we at least have two sources saying he was in Florida). The most confusing part to me is Magaddino saying that Dannarao ordered the killing of "his" underboss. You could interpret this to mean he was part of the earlier Scalise murder, but I get the feeling that half of the Gambino family tried to name its own administration (formal or informal) after the Anastasia murder.

We know that Dellacroce eventually made peace and was given some degree of autonomy as leader of the so-called "blue collar" faction, most of which can trace itself back to Anastasia's faction. With Carlo Gambino only being a provisional boss until 1960 and the large size of the Gambinos, it seems possible that half of the family had its own temporary administration (Commission approved or not) for a time until tensions settled down. This could explain how "Dannarao" ordered the killing "his" underboss. As Ed pointed out, it doesn't explicitly say the underboss was killed.

Would be good to know exactly what role Robilotto played in everything, especially given his reputation as a "nice guy". Looking at all of this again, it seems very possible that Robilotto tried to make peace with the other faction and was killed by Rava as a result.

Do you think this is one of the reasons castellano took over after carlos death and not neil?