Genovese leadership and their control of Philly

[willychichi]

I have read a lot about the successful efforts of the Genovese family to keep their leadership a secret over the years, their role in the Bruno hit and subsequent influence over the Philly family. Can any of you shed some more light on Tony Salerno's actual role within the family, it seems that he had more power within the family than many are willing to give him credit for? Also did the Chin having anything to do with or sign off on Merlino and Natale eventually taking the top spots?

[JeremyTheJew]

I believe that they met w salerno after bruno was killed. Caponigro i believe once said "tony said were ok" on a wire tap. Philly prob didnt even know about the chin during that period

Sent from my LGMS345 using Tapatalk

[willychichi]

I believe that they met w salerno after bruno was killed. Caponigro i believe once said "tony said were ok" on a wire tap. Philly prob didnt even know about the chin during that period

Sent from my LGMS345 using Tapatalk

Thanks Jeremy for the wiretap info. I should have been clearer on the Chin question. I was reading a 1997 Anastasia article where he reported that Giganti was behind Natale and Merlino getting the Boss and UB positions respectively which conflicts with other reports I have read, one being that Natale was installed by Merlino as his "front" boss and that Merlino was given the ok to take over Philly by the Gambinos? It's really hard to keep track of these fucking guys with so many different reports out there.

[Wiseguy]

Stanfa was installed by and had support from the Gambinos during his war with Merlino. The Natale/Merlino faction had the support of the Genovese. Natale talked about his connections with the West Side.

Fat Tony was in the administration during the time Lombardo was boss and Tieri underboss/acting boss. Even after Chin succeeded Lombardo as boss, Salerno was essentially the acting boss and ran the family in a lot of ways. Not only did he oversee the single most powerful crew in the family, it was Salerno who usually met with the leaders of other families, including outside New York. It was Salerno who went to making ceremonies. He basically had all the clout of an official boss but only had to defer to Chin on major issues.

[willychichi]

Stanfa was installed by and had support from the Gambinos during his war with Merlino. The Natale/Merlino faction had the support of the Genovese. Natale talked about his connections with the West Side.

Fat Tony was in the administration during the time Lombardo was boss and Tieri underboss/acting boss. Even after Chin succeeded Lombardo as boss, Salerno was essentially the acting boss and ran the family in a lot of ways. Not only did he oversee the single most powerful crew in the family, it was Salerno who usually met with the leaders of other families, including outside New York. It was Salerno who went to making ceremonies. He basically had all the clout of an official boss but only had to defer to Chin on major issues.

Thanks Wiseguy, much appreciated.

[JeremyTheJew]

Wg- do u know what the rest of the family thought of chin at then time?

Did ny recognize Natale as boss of Philly? Did they even recognize merlino during the 90s?

Sent from my LGMS345 using Tapatalk

[Pogo The Clown]

They did recognize Natale. For a time in the early/mid 2000s they didn't reccognize Merlino or Ligambi.


Pogo

[Wiseguy]

Wg- do u know what the rest of the family thought of chin at then time?

Even though Chin stayed in the background to avoid law enforcement, it seems most in the mob knew he was the boss. He was respected across the board and considered to be the most powerful mobster in New York and the nation, especially after Castellano was gone. Just about everyone in his family was loyal (one of the things the feds credited him for was the ability to select loyal and capable captains). The only exception was possibly Allie Shades, who may have plotted with Gotti, but I've always found that story hard to believe.

[123JoeSchmo]

Stanfa was installed by and had support from the Gambinos during his war with Merlino. The Natale/Merlino faction had the support of the Genovese. Natale talked about his connections with the West Side.

Fat Tony was in the administration during the time Lombardo was boss and Tieri underboss/acting boss. Even after Chin succeeded Lombardo as boss, Salerno was essentially the acting boss and ran the family in a lot of ways. Not only did he oversee the single most powerful crew in the family, it was Salerno who usually met with the leaders of other families, including outside New York. It was Salerno who went to making ceremonies. He basically had all the clout of an official boss but only had to defer to Chin on major issues.

WG, this statement reminds me of the fights you used to have with that guy EastHarlemItalian back in day on BB. Remember that dude?

[Wiseguy]

Stanfa was installed by and had support from the Gambinos during his war with Merlino. The Natale/Merlino faction had the support of the Genovese. Natale talked about his connections with the West Side.

Fat Tony was in the administration during the time Lombardo was boss and Tieri underboss/acting boss. Even after Chin succeeded Lombardo as boss, Salerno was essentially the acting boss and ran the family in a lot of ways. Not only did he oversee the single most powerful crew in the family, it was Salerno who usually met with the leaders of other families, including outside New York. It was Salerno who went to making ceremonies. He basically had all the clout of an official boss but only had to defer to Chin on major issues.

WG, this statement reminds me of the fights you used to have with that guy EastHarlemItalian back in day on BB. Remember that dude?

Yeah, he was the guy who said he was related to Fat Tony. I actually don't recall the specifics of what we argued about but we got along fine later down the road.

[123JoeSchmo]

Stanfa was installed by and had support from the Gambinos during his war with Merlino. The Natale/Merlino faction had the support of the Genovese. Natale talked about his connections with the West Side.

Fat Tony was in the administration during the time Lombardo was boss and Tieri underboss/acting boss. Even after Chin succeeded Lombardo as boss, Salerno was essentially the acting boss and ran the family in a lot of ways. Not only did he oversee the single most powerful crew in the family, it was Salerno who usually met with the leaders of other families, including outside New York. It was Salerno who went to making ceremonies. He basically had all the clout of an official boss but only had to defer to Chin on major issues.

WG, this statement reminds me of the fights you used to have with that guy EastHarlemItalian back in day on BB. Remember that dude?

Yeah, he was the guy who said he was related to Fat Tony. I actually don't recall the specifics of what we argued about but we got along fine later down the road.

He was a bit unhinged as it later turned on. But before you guys eased up on one another it was war pretty much non stop. He claimed that Tony Salerno held most of the power while you disputed that he was a mere figurehead for the Chin.

[Wiseguy]

Stanfa was installed by and had support from the Gambinos during his war with Merlino. The Natale/Merlino faction had the support of the Genovese. Natale talked about his connections with the West Side.

Fat Tony was in the administration during the time Lombardo was boss and Tieri underboss/acting boss. Even after Chin succeeded Lombardo as boss, Salerno was essentially the acting boss and ran the family in a lot of ways. Not only did he oversee the single most powerful crew in the family, it was Salerno who usually met with the leaders of other families, including outside New York. It was Salerno who went to making ceremonies. He basically had all the clout of an official boss but only had to defer to Chin on major issues.

WG, this statement reminds me of the fights you used to have with that guy EastHarlemItalian back in day on BB. Remember that dude?

Yeah, he was the guy who said he was related to Fat Tony. I actually don't recall the specifics of what we argued about but we got along fine later down the road.

He was a bit unhinged as it later turned on. But before you guys eased up on one another it was war pretty much non stop. He claimed that Tony Salerno held most of the power while you disputed that he was a mere figurehead for the Chin.

I wouldn't agree with the term "figurehead" anymore than I would "front boss," as both imply an unwitting dupe with no real power. That certainly wasn't the case with Salerno. Like I said, he had pretty much all the power of the boss and performed a lot of the position's functions but simply had to check with Chin on major issues. Cafaro testified to this fact and Salerno himself essentiallt confirmed this more than once on tape. Probably what annoyed me in the beginning was his unwillingness to recognize the evidence because it didn't fit his claims. Basically Dan Syndrome.

[Ivan]

I think people like Salerno are just another layer of hierarchical insulation. Another guy between the underboss and the boss. That's it. Not a "front" any more than an underboss is a "front".

[willychichi]

Wg- do u know what the rest of the family thought of chin at then time?

Even though Chin stayed in the background to avoid law enforcement, it seems most in the mob knew he was the boss. He was respected across the board and considered to be the most powerful mobster in New York and the nation, especially after Castellano was gone. Just about everyone in his family was loyal (one of the things the feds credited him for was the ability to select loyal and capable captains). The only exception was possibly Allie Shades, who may have plotted with Gotti, but I've always found that story hard to believe.

Thanks for the insights Wiseguy and Pogo

[brianwellbrock]

Yeah people use front for Natale and Salerno but 2 different cases. Salerno knew what was going on and was probably more than happy. Though he fell in the commission case he wasnt just a lightning rod by any case. Front-acting-under can all ne interchangable. What Salerno was is he was the guy who was up front, out on the front lines. Most big corporations do that and with the size ofbthe Genovese Family it makes sense. Im sure when Fat Tony called for you to come in they didnt sneak behind hos back and go to Chin but instead shook in their boots. And Im sure if anyone said anything bad about him in front of Chin their was hell to pay.

My only question is this,with all these insulations I always wondered how the administration whacked up the captains kicks and the administrations personal rackets? With the Genovese having 4 maybe 5 administration members at one time during this time period.